Deal of the day for 05-14 owners

[DevGittinJr]

Ok so why are you posting in a thread where someone is talking about a deal on ph brace if you think a panhard brace is pointless. Thanks for trying to save me the $25 I appreciate it.


Edit: I would never buy the brace at full price because most likely any performance increase would be very minimal.


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I posted here to counter the bullshit being spread about flimsy phb braces. I don't care how you spend your money, but just don't misinform the casual reader in the process. You're just butt-hurt about being wrong on the facts. Notice how you keep deflecting from them? Move on.

 

[5tangiac.0]

If you don't know what a structural part is supposed to do or how it works, or even that it is a structural part - you have no business commenting on its strength or what you think is a lack of it. Nor should you be repeating claims of flimsiness or whatever other derogatory term you might have heard elsewhere.

Don't ask others to evaluate a part from the same lack of knowledge, so that they might come up with the same false opinion that you have. Two wrong answers are still both wrong.

If you need to know why I'm posting here even though there's little likelihood of me buying Granatelli's or anybody else's aftermarket PHB brace, that right there ↑↑↑ is most of it.


For a little constructive commentary . . . making a component stronger in a direction that does not need that additional strength does NOT make it better. Arguably, that makes it LESS EFFICIENT because it's using more material than necessary to do the same job that a lighter piece could do equally well.


Norm

You misunderstood my point. I know what it does and how it works. I was saying if you handed these two pieces to a complete dumbass off the street and said which one looks sturdier what do you think they would say.


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[5tangiac.0]

I posted here to counter the bullshit being spread about flimsy phb braces. I don't care how you spend your money, but just don't misinform the casual reader in the process. You're just butt-hurt about being wrong on the facts. Notice how you keep deflecting from them? Move on.

What facts? What bullshit has been spread? It doesn't take a structural engineer to look at the two pieces and say which one is more solid. I am not saying the stock piece isn't acceptable. It works fine. I am just saying looking at the two pieces side by side it makes the stock piece look flimsy. You seem to be the one ignoring the facts.


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[DevGittinJr]

You misunderstood my point. I know what it does and how it works. I was saying if you handed these two pieces to a complete dumbass off the street and said which one looks sturdier what do you think they would say.


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What facts? What bullshit has been spread? It doesn't take a structural engineer to look at the two pieces and say which one is more solid. I am not saying the stock piece isn't acceptable. It works fine. I am just saying looking at the two pieces side by side it makes the stock piece look flimsy. You seem to be the one ignoring the facts.


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Wow. Your ignorance is epic. Even the casual reader can see that. Good luck with your opinions.

 

[5tangiac.0]

Just curious, what are your thoughts on the ford racing x brace?


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[Norm Peterson]

You misunderstood my point. I know what it does and how it works. I was saying if you handed these two pieces to a complete dumbass off the street and said which one looks sturdier what do you think they would say.

Seriously?

You're trying to hold dumbass street opinion above Ford Engineering's technical competence and you want my blessing that you're on the right track? Not gonna happen.


Norm

 

[Phil1098]

So Norm, when you say it's not worth the increased risk of damage should you ever wreck the car in a rear end side strike way, can we all take this same thought as to why we should NEVER consider a strut tower brace? I mean, Ford put a PHB brace on every car, they don't put a strut tower brace on all Mustangs, yet I'm sure you would agree if you had a front end side impact (not a stretch for a car with a propensity of understeer) that would transmit additional damage to the other side. I guess since you can drive a Mustang to its limit of tire adhesion and the strut towers are still there when done driving, there is no need for one. Wait, Ford does put a strut tower brace on some cars.........so is there a need or not? Do they send a letter with the cars that have them stating "WARNING: drive at your own risk, if you stuff the front end you may damage the other side of the chassis due to the strut tower brace"? To argue over someone offering different components than stock would be a never ending thing. Post to every single person that makes any change from stock and tell them how Ford engineering cannot be improved upon, therefore they have wasted their money and made the car worse. These are Ford Mustangs, they are cheap, those engineers have huge constraints, components are shot down over pennies of cost. We aren't talking about McLarens or Ferraris, I don't even have a button to open my trunk.

 

[Pentalab]

So Norm, when you say it's not worth the increased risk of damage should you ever wreck the car in a rear end side strike way, can we all take this same thought as to why we should NEVER consider a strut tower brace? I mean, Ford put a PHB brace on every car, they don't put a strut tower brace on all Mustangs, yet I'm sure you would agree if you had a front end side impact (not a stretch for a car with a propensity of understeer) that would transmit additional damage to the other side. I guess since you can drive a Mustang to its limit of tire adhesion and the strut towers are still there when done driving, there is no need for one. Wait, Ford does put a strut tower brace on some cars.........so is there a need or not? Do they send a letter with the cars that have them stating "WARNING: drive at your own risk, if you stuff the front end you may damage the other side of the chassis due to the strut tower brace"? To argue over someone offering different components than stock would be a never ending thing. Post to every single person that makes any change from stock and tell them how Ford engineering cannot be improved upon, therefore they have wasted their money and made the car worse. These are Ford Mustangs, they are cheap, those engineers have huge constraints, components are shot down over pennies of cost. We aren't talking about McLarens or Ferraris, I don't even have a button to open my trunk.

A couple of folks on the roush forum put the pass side wheel into guardrails, lamp posts, etc, on the hwy, after being forced off the road by bozo driver's swapping lanes while distracted. In both cases they were repairable, and in both cases the body repairmen said if the front STB was not installed, the car would have been a write off. A front STB is like closing off the 4th side of a rectangle. In both cases zero damage to the driver's side..yet pass side was repairable.

I replaced my BMR adj PHB and mating BMR PHB brace with the whiteline watts link kit. Even the whiteline Watts link kit comes with a HD chromolly
steel... 'chassis brace' which essentially replaces the PHB brace in an oem setup.

 

[Pentalab]

^^ This.

The '05 FR500C's ran regular OE panhard bars and braces. In fact, all of the '05-'14 Mustang race cars came with the OE phb brace.

Check some real old posts. Folks have indeed broken the oem PHB on the 2005 FR500 cars.

 

[5tangiac.0]

What's funny is people used to argue that the strut tower braces were pointless and just for looks.


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[DevGittinJr]

Check some real old posts. Folks have indeed broken the oem PHB on the 2005 FR500 cars.

But not the brace.

 

[5tangiac.0]

Seriously?

You're trying to hold dumbass street opinion above Ford Engineering's technical competence and you want my blessing that you're on the right track? Not gonna happen.


Norm

Again you are missing my point. I am not holding they're opinion above anything.

I am saying the FACT is the aftermarket braces are beefier then the oem one. Simple as that and any dumbass off the street could look at them and tell you that.

If you don't think that is a fact I don't know what else to say to convey that to you. I understand the stock piece works fine.


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[DevGittinJr]

What's funny is people used to argue that the strut tower braces were pointless and just for looks.


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Anecdotal accounts don't make this part any less useless in terms of performance. You should really stop posting and let the grown ups talk.

 

[5tangiac.0]

Anecdotal accounts don't make this part any less useless in terms of performance. You should really stop posting and let the grown ups talk.

I see you have nothing constructive to post so resort to personal attacks, but that makes you the grown up.


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[Pentalab]

Just curious, what are your thoughts on the ford racing x brace?


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Excellent concept. Steeda makes a 'X' brace that does NOT require removal of the rear seats. Light weight, (think it was aprx 9-11 lbs shipping weight), made from 1 3/8" chromolly steel, and .083" wall thickness for the CM tubing.

I used the steeda rear STB, which is adjustable in length, uses spherical ends, and is welded into place. Laugh all you want, but the piece works. I used the front steeda STB, its adjustable in length, and clears my CAI and blower. It is mounted to all 4 strut tower bolts...on both ends of the stb. (steeda HD front strut mounts used ). Beauty is both front + rear STB's are removable...at either / both ends. That came in handy when replacing the TB and plugs on driver's side. The driver's side of the front STB was unbolted...and simply lifted up

While I was at it, also installed the steeda triangular subframe connectors, also made of CM tubing..and bolted em in, using blue thread locker, then also welded them in. Between the 2 x subframe connectors went the BMR rear tunnel brace (+ mating DS safety loop). The BMR rear tunnel brace sits just aft of the oem DS pillow block bearing on the oem ford 2 piece DS. The BMR rear tunnel brace is made from 1/4" thick DOM plate.

While on a roll, I installed the BMR front A arm brace, which sits just in front of the ford oem A arm brace ( which actually ties the rear of the oem K frame together). Steeda version is called a G trac brace. Then installed the steeda 14-16" long CM pair of front sway bar braces, which are mounted diagonally across each front corner.

Ok, laff all you want at the 'do-dads'... but when switching to several other local 2010 GT's, the difference is readily apparent..as in blatantly obvious. The front + back ends feel more....'solidified'

 

[Norm Peterson]

Just curious, what are your thoughts on the ford racing x brace?

It potentially makes the car a little more sensitive to roll stiffness tuning. But if you aren't driving on R-compound tires and using all of their grip they aren't going to be of much benefit. Not worth the loss of the back seat in a DD even if it doesn't get used very often.

No comment on any structural details. I don't have enough information to even base a comment on the tube size. For sure, the car's roof structure would be asked to carry more loading (and I am specifically not commenting on its adequacy for additional loading here).


Norm

 

[Pentalab]

But not the brace.

Correct. PHB broken... but not the brace. Replacing the PHB brace with aftermarket version is a moot point really, since the beefier braces don't cost anything to begin with. BMR's version is rectangular, has a slight bend in it, and allows for clearing exhaust better. The whiteline watts link comes with a real HD, CM chassis brace.....which replaces the PHB brace.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Again you are missing my point. I am not holding they're opinion above anything.

I am saying the FACT is the aftermarket braces are beefier then the oem one. Simple as that and any dumbass off the street could look at them and tell you that.

You're holding up evaluations made 100% out of ignorance like they're good arguments. They aren't, not even if you claim to not be comparing them against other information that contradicts them. Not because visible "beefy-ness" can be used to separate gullible shoppers from their money either (that's salesmanship, not engineering).


Any of this bolt-on supplemental bracing has the potential for causing additional damage in the event of a relatively minor crash. Major crashes tend to be total wrecks, and would be with or without such added bracing. Both the X-brace and any STB would probably fall in this category, as would the PHB brace.


Norm

 

[DevGittinJr]

Again you are missing my point. I am not holding they're opinion above anything.

I am saying the FACT is the aftermarket braces are beefier then the oem one. Simple as that and any dumbass off the street could look at them and tell you that.

If you don't think that is a fact I don't know what else to say to convey that to you. I understand the stock piece works fine.


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they're or their?

We all acknowledge that the aftermarket phb braces are unnecessarily overbuilt. The only benefit is cosmetic. Same for the STB. Came stock on my car and looks hella cool (with the serial no. and "Bullitt" on it and all, so sexy).

If there's a performance benefit (i.e. the car takes a set quicker or added front-end grip), it's not quantifiable. Not by itself. Along with the sfc's, x-brace, and rollbar that are on my car, the stb may play a very minor role in chassis stiffening; however, the weight and cost far exceed any performance advantage to be had. And the sfc's were the only things that were undoubtedly noticeable on their own. Ford claims 10% more chassis stiffness from the x-brace ("Mustang Boss 302, From Racing Legend to Modern Muscle Car," Donald Farr, 2011), but it isn't at all noticeable (300 utqg tires). Oh but it's DHG and looks hella sic dogg!

Again, buy wtf you want, but just don't spread nonsense while doing so.


Edit: The x-brace/delete kit is about 20-25lbs lighter than the rear seats and belts. Still not noticeable so far as taking a set or more rear grip, not on street tires anyway.

 

[5tangiac.0]

Woop woop grammar police.


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