DiMora's Intercooling system upgrade - Operation Iceman

DiMora

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Wow. I'm done, and this mod is EPIC.

Over 14 GALLON PER MINUTE (GPM) FLOW RATE!

That is absolutely amazing. By comparison, the Meziere "20GPM" pump with 3/4" lines flowed 3.5 GPM. The factory Bosch style pump flowed 3.0GPM.

In the Meziere's defense, it would probably do better in this current system with 1" lines...and the Stewart would also likely suffer a bit with 3/4" lines, but as set-up now, this thing is a BEAST!

Here is the rest of this crazy mod:

Icebox / degas tank back in the OEM battery tray:

IMG_1411-vi.jpg


IMG_1411-vi.jpg


Heat exchanger -16AN Fragola 90 degree exit pipe with Pusk-Lok barb end and Pegasus Racing 1" silicone line heading to intercooler:

IMG_1407-vi.jpg


Bumper mod to allow bumper to be installed with epic exit pipe:

IMG_1416-vi.jpg


Eleanor grill back on (modified to accommodate fitting):

IMG_1419-vi.jpg



Looks pretty good in my opinion. Subtle, yet obvious if someone knows what they are looking for. (Hey, it's a race car).

If I ever had to undo the mod I can just replace the grill and the bumper mod would never be seen (covered by grill), but I'll probably have this car until I crash it or they put me six-feet under.

Anyway, close-up (I tidied up the edge a bit after I took this pic so it's not rough looking anymore):

IMG_1421-vi.jpg



So...then I finished all the plumbing, and it did NOT WORK! Here is why. I tried to go:

Icebox (degas tank)->intercooler->pump->heat exchanger->icebox

TOTAL FAIL. The Stewart pump sucks so hard that it crushed the silicone hoses immediately since the restriction in the system is the intercooler. I wanted it that way so I could flow icewater from the icebox straight into the intercooler. That plan is not going to happen unless I moved the Stewart EMP pump to the firewall between the icebox and the intercooler, and there is not room to do it unless I build an icebox with the pump built-in to the icebox or closely attached to it. No big deal since this car is a 99% street car and only sees the strip 1 or 2 times a year.

The fix was to go:

Icebox (degas tank)->pump->heat exchanger->intercooler->Icebox

Stated another way, the Stewart pump now PUSHES into the restriction instead of trying to pull through it. That keeps the silicone hoses PRESSURIZED between the pump outlet and the restrictive intercooler so they don't collapse, and then the return hose out of the intercooler to the degas tank doesn't crush at all since hose diameter increases from 3/4" out of the intercooler to the 1" inlet on the icebox.

Here is a quick video of my failed plumbing:

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And my re-plumbing after my failure:

">

And the best part of all (it took my whole family of 5 to help me make this video, LOL);

">

So...we know for a fact that this beast flows MORE than 14GPM. As I started pouring in the 4 gallons of water I had in the bucket I'm holding, the Stewart pump sucked faster than I could initially pour and it sucked in a gulp of air for a second, then gobbled up more water and just kept on going like a champ. In 15 seconds, this system ingested 3.5 gallons of water and a gulp of air. That is THROUGH THE ROUSH TVS INTERCOOLER that only has 3/4" inlets and outlets!

I had expected 9.3 GPM after talking with Jason at Department OF Boost (DOB), as he has done some experiments on flow rate. DOB's new heat exchanger with 1.25" inlets and outlets has been tested to flow 12.75 GPM. Needless to say I'm VERY please with over 14GPM.

That tells me that my hypothesis was true...that line diameter throughout the entire system DOES matter, and the restriction of small plumbing does have a cumulative impact. If you go to 1" lines and go with a Stewart EMP pump (which has 1" inlets and outlets) it makes a HUGE difference due to Poiseuille's Law (The Hagen - Poiseuille equation) which shows that hose diameter is the most important factor in how fluid flows through a hose.

Jason @ DOB says that If I were to go with a new DOB 3V intake manifold that has a giant Bell intercooler with 1.25" inlets and outlets that I would see ~28GPM. I cannot even imagine! That could be a nice future mod after I put in my forged 298 / 5.0 liter stroker and start getting silly with power, but for now I will be content with having just quadrupled my flow rate!

Today's ambient temp was 57 Fahrenheit during my test drive...

I have a sensor in my air inlet tube, and I was getting (@70MPH highway cruise and the car fully heated-up) a temp of 62 (5 degree rise in inlet tube over ambient is fairly typical on my car when cruising at 55-85 MPH due to the small bit of underhood heat the air filter sucks in) - and I saw fairly steady IAT's of only 100.

A quick throttle hit to get some airflow and make 10 pounds of boost resulted in an immediate drop to 96 IAT.

I also ran a toggle switch to the fans on my Steeda Triple Pass...I tried cycling them OFF and ON while cruising...I could not notice a difference on IAT's...more on that topic in a future update, but a quick glimpse into that next study is that I have ordered some coolant temp sensors and I plan on measuring temperatures with actual probes in the coolant BEFORE and AFTER the the heat exchanger to see what impact the fans make (if any at all) when cruising. The big thing is that I want to make sure that fans do not harm my intercooler performance, and real data collection with a system installed on a car is the only way to make that determination. "To fan - or not to fan - that is the question".






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1950StangJump$

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This is great info. I actually expected to see even cooler temps than the 100 AITs you are seeing with 57 ambient. I see so much bologna out there about others running only 30 degrees above ambient with an otherwise stock cooling system. That said, I realize there are 1000 different data points, including how much air is crossing over the IC at the point in which the temp is taken.

I look forward to seeing your fan comparisons. I have the VMP triple pass with fans. I do have a kill switch on the fans, so maybe I'll do a little playing also in the near future . . .





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DiMora

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This is great info. I actually expected to see even cooler temps than the 100 AITs you are seeing with 57 ambient. I see so much bologna out there about others running only 30 degrees above ambient with an otherwise stock cooling system. That said, I realize there are 1000 different data points, including how much air is crossing over the IC at the point in which the temp is taken.

I look forward to seeing your fan comparisons. I have the VMP triple pass with fans. I do have a kill switch on the fans, so maybe I'll do a little playing also in the near future . . .





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I don’t see how a car can run much cooler than high 90’s when the engine itself is running at 180 degreese and heating up the metal intake manifold. Of course thermal spacers, a heat blanket under the blower and other ideas (composite manifold bottom? Ceramic coating?) might help prevent engine heat from raising IAT’s via manifold heating.
 

crjackson

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It been a while since this thread was updated. I upgraded my HE (VMP Tripple-pass) and Radiator (FRPP w/GT500 5 blade fan) out of the gate, so my initial install was a probably better result than some others may have had OOTB.

I’m considering another HE and pump upgrade this year. I’m undecided if I want to also get a DOB IM/IC with the composite spacers to go with it.

Do you have any new information and/or comments now that it’s 2 years later?
 

1950StangJump$

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It been a while since this thread was updated. I upgraded my HE (VMP Tripple-pass) and Radiator (FRPP w/GT500 5 blade fan) out of the gate, so my initial install was a probably better result than some others may have had OOTB.

I’m considering another HE and pump upgrade this year. I’m undecided if I want to also get a DOB IM/IC with the composite spacers to go with it.

Do you have any new information and/or comments now that it’s 2 years later?

Are you asking about the DOB products?
 

crjackson

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I’m asking if @DiMora has any new information to add since his last post.

Additionally, I was commenting that I’m considering replacing/upgrading again with the mentioned DOB components.
 

EBABlacknChrome

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Several variables to look at with your changing your set up. Line size and your inner cooler, water capacity and pump size. Type of blower even. DOB products are great but what are you doing with it. The super single is would be nice but m th saleen intercooler will only past so fast even with a larger pump. I like VMP triple with fans and the 13/14 pump.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

eighty6gt

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Chiming in, I've had all kinds of IC systems. My IAT's have always been about 100F cruising, and less than that under power, closer to ambient (weird, eh!) I see up to 150F rotting in traffic on hot days. Everything under the hood is so hot you are immediately burned touching it. One time my alternator quit working.

I had a stock M90 front exchanger, a 2010 large single pass front exchanger (bosch pump,) now I have a 2013 gt500 exchanger (bought used, and cheap! :D) and pierberg pump. Same, same, same temperatures across. Similar performance.

These systems are great for street blasts, but look at what DOB had to do to get the car to live on open track. Rear mounted HE, fans, enormous lines, etc etc.. and I think it may have worked in the end.

Lots of money can be spent!!
 

Badd GT

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Get the super single, run 1” lines and the Stewart pump. Make sure you have 1” fittings on you super single and your innner cooler and you will be fine
 

crjackson

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Get the super single, run 1” lines and the Stewart pump. Make sure you have 1” fittings on you super single and your innner cooler and you will be fine

That’s pretty much my thinking. I was going to get a super-single with 1” fittings, a pump (undecided brand at the moment) with 1” fittings, a DOB manifold/intercooler with 1” fittings & w/composite heat barrier.

My current setup gives me about 6°F - 13°F over ambient when cruising at highway speeds with no stops. Around 150°F- 158°F idling in traffic on a hot day.

From the sound of things here, it may be wasted money. I may already be getting the best result that I can.
 

crjackson

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Chiming in, I've had all kinds of IC systems. My IAT's have always been about 100F cruising, and less than that under power, closer to ambient (weird, eh!) I see up to 150F rotting in traffic on hot days. Everything under the hood is so hot you are immediately burned touching it. One time my alternator quit working.

I had a stock M90 front exchanger, a 2010 large single pass front exchanger (bosch pump,) now I have a 2013 gt500 exchanger (bought used, and cheap! :D) and pierberg pump. Same, same, same temperatures across. Similar performance.

These systems are great for street blasts, but look at what DOB had to do to get the car to live on open track. Rear mounted HE, fans, enormous lines, etc etc.. and I think it may have worked in the end.

Lots of money can be spent!!

Or saved ... I may stick with what I have
 

crjackson

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Several variables to look at with your changing your set up. Line size and your inner cooler, water capacity and pump size. Type of blower even. DOB products are great but what are you doing with it. The super single is would be nice but m th saleen intercooler will only past so fast even with a larger pump. I like VMP triple with fans and the 13/14 pump.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Yeah, I know about the various variables, and planned to upgrade everything but the Roush TVS head unit.

I’ve already got a VMP triple, upgraded radiator/fan (GT500 7-blade, that thing is a beast by comparison). All of the stock parts from the Roush kit were never used. I knew they’re too wimpy for my liking during the install.

I would have done the DOB single from the start, but none were available and I would have had to get on a 6-12 week waiting list after paying. I was ready to install NOW, and went with VMP because they were ready NOW too at that time.

I’m not sure upgrading the pump would do anything for me, without the other mentioned upgrades.

This is the upgrade list from the S/C install. I did all this at once...

Roush Phase 3+ Supercharger
VMP Heat Exchanger
JLT Catch Can
Boundary Billet Oil Pump Gears
Boundary Billet Crank Sprocket
Kooks Long Tube Headers and H-Pipe
Ford Racing Radiator
GT500 7 blade Fan
170° Riesche Thermostat
Iridium spark plugs 1 heat range cooler
Dyno Tune
 
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Badd GT

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Yeah, I know about the various variables, and planned to upgrade everything but the Roush TVS head unit.

I’ve already got a VMP triple, upgraded radiator/fan (GT500 7-blade, that thing is a beast by comparison). All of the stock parts from the Roush kit were never used. I knew they’re too wimpy for my liking during the install.

I would have done the DOB single from the start, but none were available and I would have had to get on a 6-12 week waiting list after paying. I was ready to install NOW, and went with VMP because they were ready NOW too at that time.

I’m not sure upgrading the pump would do anything for me, without the other mentioned upgrades.

This is the upgrade list from the S/C install. I did all this at once...

Roush Phase 3+ Supercharger
VMP Heat Exchanger
JLT Catch Can
Boundary Billet Oil Pump Gears
Boundary Billet Crank Sprocket
Kooks Long Tube Headers and H-Pipe
Ford Racing Radiator
GT500 7 blade Fan
170° Riesche Thermostat
Iridium spark plugs 1 heat range cooler
Dyno Tune

LOL, I have the VMP triple pass with 1” fittings also for the same reason...... f#ck paying ahead and waiting 3-4 months I’m ready to go now! I was under the impression DOB had them in stock. The manifold with composite barrier is worth the wait, not only the composite, but it separates out the coolant heat from the manifold
 

crjackson

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f#ck paying ahead and waiting 3-4 months I’m ready to go now! I was under the impression DOB had them in stock.

Me too, I was rather Gobsmacked when I was placing my order. I had already tallied up the sale and ready to pay. Just before I was about to read off my CC number, I asked about shipping time, because I had already scheduled the install 2 weeks out. Then the bombshell dropped. Then it went something like this...

Well, we don’t have any here to ship. You have to pay for your order and then we will request it to be manufactured (after we get enough pre-paid orders). How long does that take, I said. The answer was a guess. It was 6-12 weeks if lucky. Needless to say, I thanked him for his time and canceled my order.

I called VMP and had all my parts ready to go in 3 days. I was able to get my car into the shop right away, and in 3 more days, I was in the drivers seat. That sort of left a bad impression on me. At that time, great care was given to advertisement of product quality, and no warning that parts needed to be ordered/paid for months ahead of time. I hope that they now include this information up front.

I’m not sure I want to invest in their manifold after reading posts above. It seems I may already have a setup that works at least as well, and the rest may be a waste of effort. I’ll have to ponder on this and see if any additional information rolls in to sway me one way or the other.
 

eighty6gt

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Not great hearing about dob production delays. Guy needs working capital, and it seems like VMP is going to keep eating everyone's lunch as they are very well established and capitalized.
 

DieHarder

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Agreed. Waiting is hard. However, the final product (from DOB) is well worth the wait and delivers on its promises. At least in my experience.
 

Pentalab

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DOB needs a $100 K to $250K line of credit. If something is not in stock, folks shop elsewhere.

A 7 bar upper grille, and / or hood vents does wonders for getting air through the entire mess. That plus ceramic LT's. Plus new JBA cats now reside below the seats...instead of at base of eng bay. That entire combo reduced my underhood temps by 40F... measured on a Fluke IR.

IC extracts the heat....and the HE dumps the extracted heat...( back to the air). It's all one big loop.
 

crjackson

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Well, I don’t have the replacement hihgflow upper/lower grill set just yet, but it is on the list. My hood is already vented, (see the pic in my avatar). It’s a 2014 GT500 hood. I don’t have any CATS on my KOOKS headers. That too would have caused a major delay in the install (everything took place at the peak of the Pandemic, so that too affected my install timing).

Do you believe that upgrading to a super-single w/1” fittings + high-vol pump + DOB intercooler/intake/composite heat barrier (1” connections obviously), would improve my cooling performance?

To be honest, my car only raises to high levels (150°F ~3°) when idling for extended periods in warm weather. The temps drop drastically and extremely fast as soon as the car has forward movement. I’m starting to think I wouldn’t see an improvement.

What do you guys think about that composite heat barrier?
 
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Department Of Boost

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I would have done the DOB single from the start, but none were available and I would have had to get on a 6-12 week waiting list after paying. I was ready to install NOW, and went with VMP because they were ready NOW too at that time.
That must have been last year in the middle of COVID and the Super Singles were new. The waiting was due to supply chain problems. Super Singles have been in stock and on the shelf since the day the second production run was delivered last year.

LOL, I have the VMP triple pass with 1” fittings also for the same reason...... f#ck paying ahead and waiting 3-4 months I’m ready to go now! I was under the impression DOB had them in stock. The manifold with composite barrier is worth the wait, not only the composite, but it separates out the coolant heat from the manifold

Super Singles have been in stock and on the shelf since the day the second production run was delivered last year.

I have nearly 100 of them right now.
 

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