Idle issues with lito tune..still :/

[teeje]

I apologize for the what may seem like monotonous info but I feel as if its important to mention...

Lito and I have been battling a return to idle issues for quite some time. Before I go on a rant I suppose, I want to mention some things to get your minds flowing. I noticed this issue start to get worse when im parked at an incline for a few minutes. Id start the car back up and it would run rich (afrs dropping to 10-11s rich) and when I did my bbk longtubes I replaced an o2 sensor with a bosch sensor (not the cheap one) Maybe I should get an OEM one? I dont think the o2 sensor matters but FWIW....also I pulled the vacuum line off the fuel rail pressure regulator and if i plug one side of my nose and sniff I smell fuel so I'm going to go on a limb and say its bad and has just been getting worse over time and it would make sense for the car to run rich after sitting at an incline because the fuel going into the vacuum line...ok heres my mustang info ....

2008 Mustang GT Manual. Im full bolt on with hot rod cams, offroad prochamber, jlt series 3 cai, new motorcraft spark plugs, msd blaster coils, ford racing intake manifold, bbk longtube headers and ford performance twin 62 mm throttle body and a jlt catch can on the drivers side. Earlier this week I had an issue with my tps sensor and threw code p2135 replaced the sensor and figured i'd upgrade the throttle body instead of going stock i went with the twin 62 mm ford performance TB Before I did replace the TB, I still had some return to idle issues. I datalogged tonight for lito and went through two tunes and he is working on another one tomorrow. I hate to bombard his email with things im finding but it just so happens that I find something else right after I send an email. So for starters, I get some idle surging in neutral when coasting to a stop and when i stop it drops to 500 then back up to 1000+ and back down and returns to idle. If I rev in neutral it does the same thing. Past tunes have done this (besides the surging in neutral).
I can post datalogs as well if somoene wants to take a look..

 

[1950StangJump$]

Here, I thought I was the only one in the world who didn't get a good Lito tune. Mine kept stalling and, after the 7th revision, I asked for a refund. He was a professional and did so without argument.

I got a mail order (with data log adjustments) from Lasota Racing, and it was very good. The car ran great from the get-go, and he barely had to adjust anything.

Given the $ you have in the car, you might consider paying the little extra and get a second tuner started on it. Worst case, you end up with two good tunes

 

[stkjock]

shot in the dark, have to smoke tested all the vacuum lines, areas where air could leak in/out?

I was chasing a idle/rev issue for a couple months, turned out I had left the draincock on my catch can open and it was screwing everything up.

 

[MrAwesome987]

Mine does something similar with the AC on, and was tuned by Lito. He got it close enough to where it doesn't bother me. My setup is completely different than yours, so I probably can't help other than that. He did a fantastic job compared to what a local Dyno tuner did on the same setup.

 

[teeje]

Lito is a great guy and I'd hate to do that to him but I just so frustrated and idk what to do


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[MrAwesome987]

I would do as stkjock suggested and check for vacuum leaks.

Did this issue start after or before the new throttle body? Have you replaced the fuel rail sensor?

 

[Laga]

Check wiring to MAF and make sure it clean.

 

[teeje]

Replaced the fuel rail pressure sensor with an oem one from Ford. Maf is clean as well as wiring going to it. Funny thing is, it's better with the AC on


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[Midlife Crises]

Are you pulling air through the pcv system. A check valve solved my idle issues.

 

[teeje]

Lito and I are getting it close. No surging anymore return to idle is almost perfect. And as far as im aware there are no vacuum leaks. Sounds the same at idle however i do hear a whistle after I added the new TB but from my understanding, this is normal for it to whistle under throttle.

 

[teeje]

This has really kicked our but lately. We are very close. Just got a revision and its harder to replicate the issue. Im wondering, that maybe somehow I have a bad reading on either my MAF, MAP, or fuel pump voltages. Could someone report what their readings on voltages should be? I can't seem to find accurate information on this. Its not terrible now. When I stop normal or hard with AC on or OFF, idle is fine the whole time. It hold at about 800 or 900 while coasting which is normal but as soon as i stop it drops to normal idle. However, this still concerns me and lito that something has to be off. I have new spark plugs (oem) with about 10,000 miles on them, fuel rail pressure sensor, new fuel filter with about 8,000 miles on it, and i clean and oil my filters about every 5,000 miles on my jlt series 3. After about 100 miles of changing the filter i take the maf out in case any left over oil got on it and I use ONLY maf cleaner. Car runs great. Sometimes, and it is rare, my afr will read rich for a second and go back to normal. I have a feeling it has something to do with the o2 sensors as I have one OEM one and one BOSCH one which, lito says its important to run only NTK 22060s on the upstreams , which I cannot find locally for the life of me. Appreciate your time.

-Tyler

Are you pulling air through the pcv system. A check valve solved my idle issues.

I am not sure, could you show me what you did and link it please? And how would I know and how do I check this?

shot in the dark, have to smoke tested all the vacuum lines, areas where air could leak in/out?

I was chasing a idle/rev issue for a couple months, turned out I had left the draincock on my catch can open and it was screwing everything up.

No, I have not yet. I do everything to my car myself and I don't really want to pay someone to do such a simple task. Is there a diy way to do this? Ive heard of people using cigars, cigarettes, and what not.

 

[stkjock]

for the smoke test, I'd suggest going to youtube for a DYI, I saw "samcrac" do one with a cigar and a handheld pump.

 

[Laga]

You can do a vacuum check using a unlit propane torch. Just run the torch right on top of any vacuum lines or ares of vacuum and listen for a increase in engine speed. You can even move the lines around to open up any cracks. Be careful. Do it out of wind, but with garage door open.

 

[teeje]

Smoke test was good


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[2526Bullitt]

I have bought a Bosch o2 sensor for my wife's car...it had a slight miss but wouldn't trigger a check engine light.. bought a Denso brand sensor o2 sensor and the car feels much better. Try getting a couple of new o2 through rockauto

 

[07gts197]

Fwiw, the last time I went to change the plugs on my 07 I originally got oem plugs but when I got them almost all of them had the porcelain insulator detached. I ditched them for Brisk Racing plugs. Also if they arent torqued to spec it will not run smooth. I thought good n’ tight was good enough for these plugs but I had to go out and buy a torque wrench because it wasnt running smoothly. They only turned a tiny bit but man did that make a big difference.

Also its been well established that Bosch o2 sensors do not work well in our cars and can cause all kinds of issues. Ive personally had 2 fail within a couple thousand miles of installation and would never run one again. And I just checked RockAuto, they still do carry NTK oem sensors.


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[07 Boss]

Fwiw, the last time I went to change the plugs on my 07 I originally got oem plugs but when I got them almost all of them had the porcelain insulator detached. I ditched them for Brisk Racing plugs. Also if they arent torqued to spec it will not run smooth. I thought good n’ tight was good enough for these plugs but I had to go out and buy a torque wrench because it wasnt running smoothly. They only turned a tiny bit but man did that make a big difference.

Also its been well established that Bosch o2 sensors do not work well in our cars and can cause all kinds of issues. Ive personally had 2 fail within a couple thousand miles of installation and would never run one again. And I just checked RockAuto, they still do carry NTK oem sensors.


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I just bought a set of NTK front and rear OEM sensors. Gonna swap them out next week.

 

[Midlife Crises]

Hi teeje
What I meant about the PCV system is; you have a tube or hose that goes from the left valve cover up to the intake manifold and connects after the throttle body. This is where your catch can/oil separator would be in line. There should also be a line from the right valve cover connected to the air inlet tube in front of the throttle body. This is where you should have a check valve to prevent air from entering the valve cover (engine). In a nut shell, vacuum from the intake manifold will pull air through the engine. The check valve prevents air from entering the engine so a vacuum is pulled on the crankcase.

 

[teeje]

I have the catch can on the drivers side. And I have the frppanifold so I am not sure I'm understanding what you did 100%. Do you have pictures and a link as to what you're referring to?


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[Midlife Crises]

Sorry I don’t have a picture or sketch of the PCV loop on a 3 valve. I do have a simple test for you. Open the hood and start the engine. With the engine idling pull the hose off of the passenger side valve cover. Put you finger over the tube sticking out of the valve cover and you will feel it drawing air into the engine. That’s the air leak I am referring to. Your idle will probably change as you plug and unplug that valve cover tube. What happens is air goes in the engine through the passenger valve cover and out the drivers valve cover, through the catch can and into the manifold. It bypasses the throttle body so the engine hunts to control the idle. A check valve stops that and you will have less oil drawn into the catch can because the airflow is reduced. Win, Win.