Some noob questions

Tom

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Sorry for the stupid questions but Im a drag racer and recently decided to try a diff route. Im starting my build over and Im wondering about rims. Im going to try some road coarse stuff and was wondering if 20's would be to big, and what kind of tires do you guess recc. I appreciate all your guys help.

Also, what kind of swaybars and other misc stuff do you guys like.
 
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pcdrj

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Lot's of threads on tires in this section.

20's are big. most guys are running 18's with anywhere from a 9.5-10.5 rim. Toyo R888 were a disappointment. Currently running 315 Hoosier R6 which are great. If you're running struts 305's are probably the widest you can fit up front.
 

Tom

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Lot's of threads on tires in this section.

20's are big. most guys are running 18's with anywhere from a 9.5-10.5 rim. Toyo R888 were a disappointment. Currently running 315 Hoosier R6 which are great. If you're running struts 305's are probably the widest you can fit up front.


Do you want a wide tire when driving these type coarses?

Are products like mlower ball joints and bump steer kits required? Im trying to learn a lot LOL
 

SoundGuyDave

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Trust me when I say "Welcome to your new addiction!"

Driving on a road course is SO completely different from drag racing, that your best bet is to focus on just tires and brakes, and forget about everything else on the car until you have a few track days under your belt. THAT will give you an idea where you want to head with the car... Good "ultra high performance" tires like Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec or Kumho MX, or the Nitto NT05 are great places to start. Look at the 275/35 or 275/40 sizes in either 17" or 18". For brakes, Hawk HT-10 up front, and HP-Plus in back on the stock brakes is also a wise choice for starting out. After that, the best mod is seat time. Just like drag racing, you need experience to really max out what you have, and that just takes getting out and doing it. Take a peek at NASAProRacing.com, find your local region, and start signing up for events...
 

STEVE_POE

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Just a fyi. Tires are a big consumable. I run a toyo ra 1.

The 18" tire is $100 more per tire over a 17" tire. That is $400 a set. You can run just as fast on a 17" as a 18"

and with the proper wheel selection you can in fact get a 17" wheel over a 14" brake system.
 

pcdrj

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Do you want a wide tire when driving these type coarses?

Are products like mlower ball joints and bump steer kits required? Im trying to learn a lot LOL

Required? No more than mods are required to drag race but... if I'm starting out, I'd try running 285's all around, Hawk 10 or Plus pads, ss brake lines, high temp brake fluid (Willwood 570 or similar), and maybe brake ducts. I also recommend hood pins since mine came loose at speed.

From here you get into spring rates, sway bars, control arms, bumsteer, etc. Or you could simply do a Griggs GR40 setup for a ahem "few" extra bucks.

Alot of opinions on this but one thing everyone will agree on, best mod is seat time.
 

Tom

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I really appreciate the help guys. Im really excited about trying this out.
 

Stangmeister9

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every one here has hit the head on the nail. i currently run the HT10's and hp+ on the rear and cant be happier. like stated above the tires are where youll hurt the most. do your homework and get the best tire for your money. try regular 200-300 tread wear tires and learn to control your car at the tires limits. it will make you a better driver rather then putting some sticky tires on their that wont screach until they brake loose. street tires scream the whole way, but are very predictable and much cheaper. sleeper08 makes a good point, run same size, i run 255's for practice sessions and rotate them after every event that helps your pocket book. seat time is the best time and money you can invest.

your about to venture into something very rewarding and its not for 14 or 13 seconds!
 

Philostang

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Ah yes...another convert come to the fold...

We're all warning you...you're just a little fishy, and the road course is one damn big hook.

I think it's important to build some steam behind the basics being suggested here. Tires, brakes, seat time. The folks who have been down this road have a pretty clear sense of what it takes to start out safely and with plenty of room to grow.

As an FYI, the reason you see folks talking about brake upgrades is mostly to combat heat-related problems even a noob will likely encounter. Heat is your focus (control, management, combating it, survival, however you like to think of it) when we say "brakes." You don't need to worry right now about "stopping power!" or some other such advertisement line.

With regard to heat, I've tried the Wilwood 570 and don't really recommend it. It's great when it's new, but it gets old super-fast (like one weekend or less). If you're looking for a bit less maintenance, I'd recommend Motul RBF600. You won't go through it as fast, and in the end that will save money.

WELCOME! (to a new definition of "consumables")

-j
 

pcdrj

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ATE Ssuper Blue/Type 200 is also a good DOT 4 brake fluid available at "German" car repair shops.

I'm also learning that the best way to ease the load on the brakes is not use them as much :)

Yeeeep. At Bondurant they refered to it as the "go fast pedal".
 

AJ

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Yeeeep. At Bondurant they refered to it as the "go fast pedal".

would eibach prokit springs work well for track use?

track n00b here aswell
 

Chris B.

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I would start out with street tires and skip the race tires for the first couple track days. I used the stock 400 treadwear Mud & Snow rated BFG's for my first 4 track days. It allows you to learn the limits easier and focus more on your technique being smooth.

Motul RBF 600 or a similar brake flid along with upgraded pads are reommended. A brake cooling duct kit is also good idea.

Keep the suspension stock if it is already. The S197 can handle good enough for a beginner on the stock suspension as you can see here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCzf9YaRFx4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca1j0N9Ah5I


The issue with using race tires and a modified suspension your first few events is it can hide bad driving and hide some mistakes. If you aren't smooth a stock or nearly stock suspension and stock tires will really let you know.
 

Sleeper_08

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Also get some in car instructon from someone who knows what they are doing and can teach it to you.
 
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would eibach prokit springs work well for track use?

track n00b here aswell

If that's what you got, you'll be fine. If you are shopping for springs, then I might try something towards steeda if I had to do it all over again. Don't worry about what mods you do or don't have because they probably won't be your limiting factor. (tires and brakes aside, of course) Put some decent pads, fluid, and brake ducts if you've got the scratch. Worry about the rest later.
 

Vapour Trails

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IThe issue with using race tires and a modified suspension your first few events is it can hide bad driving and hide some mistakes. If you aren't smooth a stock or nearly stock suspension and stock tires will really let you know.

I disagree. My suspension, now completely modified, is a lot less forgiving than when it was stock. The main reason is the stock understeer is gone and the added camber makes the steering more "twitchy". Not many people are used to driving a neutral handling car hard or are used to how quickly it now "turns in".

The way the car comes setup from the factory will hide more errors IMO.
 

SoundGuyDave

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I disagree. My suspension, now completely modified, is a lot less forgiving than when it was stock. The main reason is the stock understeer is gone and the added camber makes the steering more "twitchy". Not many people are used to driving a neutral handling car hard or are used to how quickly it now "turns in".

The way the car comes setup from the factory will hide more errors IMO.

I have to disagree with you here, but probably not for the reason you think. In general, the more you mod your car, the larger the performance envelope, but conversely, the narrower the margin of error available. The stock (or nearly stock) suspension won't flat-out pitch you off the track like a hyper-tuned setup will when driven ham-fisted, but it WILL start doing all kinds of obnoxious things, like plowing through the turns (massive understeer), rolling over on the door handles, and just generally ill-behaving. ALL of those are recoverable, even for a novice, whereas the classic "Mustang Snap" isn't at all easily caught. The highly modded suspension will be more neutral when driven properly, and will allow higher lateral G force, but once you go past the limit, it's all over, unless you've acquired some decent car control skills.

When I get into a car with a student, I would MUCH rather have a stock vehicle than one that's modded up... If the ass-end starts wagging under braking, I don't have to wonder if it's braking technique or if it's mod induced, like too high a spring rate in the rear, improper compression valving on the dampers, uncorrected bump-steer, torque-arm induced, or anything else. I KNOW that it's because the student slammed on the brake pedal like a panic stop, and transferred too much weight up front.

In the end, if you're able to drive past the limits of the stock suspension, then fine, but if you aren't, why dump money into it if it isn't a problem (yet)?
 

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