Suspension help. Ordering a 2011 and need advice.

[SoundGuyDave]

A couple of things...

First, another alternative to the transportation issue:

Second, just a philosopical thought on this quote:

"I don't think tech is going to measure my rims as long as I don't go over 265 with my rubber.. Plus I'm a newbie and I doubt I'll be competing near the top enough for them to look at me hard in STX... I'll feel tech out then and decide what I can get away with and what I can't."

What would happen if you DO buy the 9.5" width, and then learn to drive well enough to get to the top of the heap... It would suck to get DQ'd due to wheel width. To add insult to injury, you'd then either have to re-class, and spend a boatload of money to be competitive, or, have to buy the wheels AGAIN, just to remain in-class. Much better to figure out what class the car will be competive in, and then build the car to suit the rules. That way you're only buying the parts once. Trust me, that will wind up being cheaper than buying the wrong stuff first!

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

Second, just a philosopical thought on this quote:

"I don't think tech is going to measure my rims as long as I don't go over 265 with my rubber.. Plus I'm a newbie and I doubt I'll be competing near the top enough for them to look at me hard in STX... I'll feel tech out then and decide what I can get away with and what I can't."

What would happen if you DO buy the 9.5" width, and then learn to drive well enough to get to the top of the heap... It would suck to get DQ'd due to wheel width. To add insult to injury, you'd then either have to re-class, and spend a boatload of money to be competitive, or, have to buy the wheels AGAIN, just to remain in-class. Much better to figure out what class the car will be competive in, and then build the car to suit the rules. That way you're only buying the parts once. Trust me, that will wind up being cheaper than buying the wrong stuff first!

OP - you have to ask yourself. How important is it to you to run in a particular SCCA class for auto-x vs. doing high performance driving events (HPDE) and "non-class" auto-x events for personal best times on a set of wheels and tires that you want to run? You will develop valuable car control skills if you start with a set of great street tires - don't rush into R-compound slicks. Once you master your car and learn its handling characteristics with street tires, making them squeal as you push them to their limits, you'll be that much faster when you're ready to make the transition to slicks. Not sure if you read this thread already.

 

[Towelly]

Is this taking into account the cost to mount and balance the tires on your wheels? You don't really want the extra weight of the 19's either. In the first installment of the GRM MX5 STR build, they found that the 17" in a 245 width was significantly faster (~0.5 sec on 60 sec course) than the 18"/255 combo. Going with an 18x9 should be better all the way round.

I will be running the 18" wheels. Not the 19's, I just was curious so I figured I would take a peak. No it wasn't taking into account mount and balance because I don't really plan on running the 19's for more than one or two events. I want the stock wheels/rubber to be "Street only".

 

[Towelly]

A couple of things...

First, another alternative to the transportation issue:



Second, just a philosopical thought on this quote:

"I don't think tech is going to measure my rims as long as I don't go over 265 with my rubber.. Plus I'm a newbie and I doubt I'll be competing near the top enough for them to look at me hard in STX... I'll feel tech out then and decide what I can get away with and what I can't."

What would happen if you DO buy the 9.5" width, and then learn to drive well enough to get to the top of the heap... It would suck to get DQ'd due to wheel width. To add insult to injury, you'd then either have to re-class, and spend a boatload of money to be competitive, or, have to buy the wheels AGAIN, just to remain in-class. Much better to figure out what class the car will be competive in, and then build the car to suit the rules. That way you're only buying the parts once. Trust me, that will wind up being cheaper than buying the wrong stuff first!

OP - you have to ask yourself. How important is it to you to run in a particular SCCA class for auto-x vs. doing high performance driving events (HPDE) and "non-class" auto-x events for personal best times on a set of wheels and tires that you want to run? You will develop valuable car control skills if you start with a set of great street tires - don't rush into R-compound slicks. Once you master your car and learn its handling characteristics with street tires, making them squeal as you push them to their limits, you'll be that much faster when you're ready to make the transition to slicks. Not sure if you read this thread already.

Thanks for the thoughts guys. I have a somewhat "Forced hand" because we don't have enough HPDE/Non-Class type events around here to keep me racing as much as I want. Marshalltown Iowa (Two hour drive one way.) has the nearest real "Non-class" event and they only run it about 4 times a year, weather permitting. So, SoundGuyDave has a good point. We have a ton of SCCA sanctioned events here and a few NASA events as well that are much more local to me. So I am going to be forced to "Class" at some point. May as well just do it. The nearest true road coarse is probably "The American Autobahn" in Joliet which is about three hours drive one way. So, while I would like to just run those types of events it is not going to happen as much as I want. My intention is not to be real competitive, but to better myself as a driver. But if end up being competitive, that is just icing on the cake.

SoundGuyDave - Love your setup! May I ask what trailer you are using? I found this one, just poking around. Is this about the same size as your trailer? http://www.harborfreight.com/automo...ailer-with-8-inch-wheels-and-tires-42708.html

Also, how do you secure that trailer/tires at the track? Just a paddlelock on the trailer and a cable/paddlelock on the tires?

 

[Sam Strano]

Second, just a philosopical thought on this quote:

"I don't think tech is going to measure my rims as long as I don't go over 265 with my rubber.. Plus I'm a newbie and I doubt I'll be competing near the top enough for them to look at me hard in STX... I'll feel tech out then and decide what I can get away with and what I can't."

What would happen if you DO buy the 9.5" width, and then learn to drive well enough to get to the top of the heap... It would suck to get DQ'd due to wheel width. To add insult to injury, you'd then either have to re-class, and spend a boatload of money to be competitive, or, have to buy the wheels AGAIN, just to remain in-class. Much better to figure out what class the car will be competive in, and then build the car to suit the rules. That way you're only buying the parts once. Trust me, that will wind up being cheaper than buying the wrong stuff first!

All very valid points and pretty much what I was thinking.

I'll add this... Say you don't get "caught". I (speaking for me and me alone) would prefer to gain my results on the up and up, and not with an asterisk by it because I knew something wasn't quite right. I want to beat someone because I beat them, not because I had any sort of help that wasn't legit.

MHO.

 

[Towelly]

Hrmmmm... Any recommendations on 18x9" wide wheels then? I would like to keep it as cheap as reasonably possible, but I don't want junk rims either. I guess I could go with the 2010 GT500 Replica's on AmericanMuscle, but it seems a shame that I would be paying more, for less basically.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Towelly: First off, our NASA region (midwest) has quite a lot of events that might be within striking distance for you. Nasamidwest.com for details. I'll be at most of them, excepting Brainerd, MN, so if you come out, look me up! If you're looking to "better yourself as a driver," you could do a LOT worse than running up the NASA HPDE ladder. PM me for any details or questions you may have...

The trailer that I use is essentially the same one you found. I got mine from Northern Tool, but it's probably the same one. I did have to widen mine, cut it in half and added about 5" (Thanks again, John!), to allow me to strap on the four 18x9.5" wheels. NO security required at the track, at all. Autobahn (for example) has a gate with security 24/7, and the type of folks you'll find in a road course paddock are NOT the type that would try to steal your wheels overnight. A cable lock wouldn't hurt you, but IMO not really necessary. Speaking of wheels, I run the 5zigen FN01R-C, in 18x9.5, but if memory serves, they also come in 18x9, and WILL clear the Brembo brake package. Also take a look at the Enkei RP-01, they will also clear the BBKs, and are in the same price range. Stay away from the American Muscle knockoff rims. They're priced right, but they are HEAVY!!!!! Wheels are a great place to shave weight if you can...

 

[Towelly]

Dave, I will be PMing you. But so far it is not looking good for all but two events. Sounds good on the trailer. I'll have to do some looking. Fab work isn't a big issue. I'll also take a look at your rim recommendations. Thanks again!

Edit -

The 5zigen FN01R-C I can get in 18x8.5 or 18x9.5. Don't see a 18x9 option. I wonder if the 18x8.5's will fit? Can't seem to find the RP-01's new.

Jake

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Sorry, meant Enkei PF-01. Available in 18x9.0, 5x114.5, +35 and +45 offsets, both of which will work... For reference, I have the +35mm 5zigens in 18x9.5.

 

[Philostang]

Just a cautionary addition...

If you can fab up a proper wheel rack that admits of locking your wheels down, do it.

I have a trailer set up similar to Dave's, and think the same thing he does about our crowd. At the track, I'd leave my wallet on the damn ground and feel pretty safe...but that's at the track (it's a whole different world there).

Back in this other world, I just had my garage broken into, and guess what they took. Yep, they ran off with my track wheel/tire combo (Enkei PF-01, 18x9.5" +35mm shod with Hoosier R6s in 275/35-18). The theft was pretty easy for them as all they had to do was snip my ratchet tie downs. They also took a bunch of track-side tools, etc.

Anyway, you can bet that the next project on my fab list is a proper wheel rack. This time, if they want to take the wheels, they're going to have to take the whole damn trailer (and to do that, I'm working on a way to ensure that they'll need to take the entire f'n garage wall with them). And yes, Dave you're getting a rack too, whether you like it or not (I can't take another theft; I'm on a mission now).

Now, on to 18x9" wheels...you might want to look into Rota wheels. They have a bunch of offerings in that size, and weight is decent. I have their G-force wheels as my daily/rain wheel in 18x9" +30mm, about 22 lbs. They sit just about exactly where the Enkei wheels did relative to the wheel well, clear bbk, etc. I'm also considering selling them, as I gear up (read: replace stolen stuff!) for next year...hmmm.

Best,
-j

 

[Towelly]

Thanks J, I appreciate the advice. PM me if you are going to get rid of those wheels! I'm only about 3 hours west of you in the Quad Cities (Moline, Rock Island, Bettendorf, Davenport) area.

P.S. - Dave - Which offset would look better, as long as both would work? 35 or 45mm?

 

[SoundGuyDave]

P.S. - Dave - Which offset would look better, as long as both would work? 35 or 45mm?

Well, if you can't tell, I'm more of a function over form guy these days, so I would take the extra track width every time. The +35mm wheels wind up having almost an inch wider track than the +45, and like the Pontiac ad used to say: "Wider Is Better!"

If you wind up hooking up with John to pick up his wheels, let me know, maybe we'll all grab a beer!

If you're in the Quad Cities, you're really just some simple highway miles away from the Iowa Speedway, Autobahn Country Club, Blackhawk Farms Raceway, and DO NOT forget Road America! While NASA isn't heading up to Blackhawk next year, it's a fantastic little track, just about the quintessential "club track." Really easy to learn, very difficult to master. BHF has pretty regularly scheduled track events, so check into them direct at the track. Also, in the quest for seat time, don't be afraid to look at some of the "marque" clubs, like Porsche, BMW, Audi, Shelby, etc. They usually welcome non-marque cars with open arms. Just be careful about embarassing the Porsche drivers, though... If you wind up heading over to Blackhawk, drop me a line, I love that track (TTA track record!).

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

Which offset would look better, as long as both would work? 35 or 45mm?

+45mm

 

[Towelly]

Well, if you can't tell, I'm more of a function over form guy these days, so I would take the extra track width every time. The +35mm wheels wind up having almost an inch wider track than the +45, and like the Pontiac ad used to say: "Wider Is Better!"

If you wind up hooking up with John to pick up his wheels, let me know, maybe we'll all grab a beer!

If you're in the Quad Cities, you're really just some simple highway miles away from the Iowa Speedway, Autobahn Country Club, Blackhawk Farms Raceway, and DO NOT forget Road America! While NASA isn't heading up to Blackhawk next year, it's a fantastic little track, just about the quintessential "club track." Really easy to learn, very difficult to master. BHF has pretty regularly scheduled track events, so check into them direct at the track. Also, in the quest for seat time, don't be afraid to look at some of the "marque" clubs, like Porsche, BMW, Audi, Shelby, etc. They usually welcome non-marque cars with open arms. Just be careful about embarassing the Porsche drivers, though... If you wind up heading over to Blackhawk, drop me a line, I love that track (TTA track record!).

Will do! I take it your in the Chicagoland area?

I was told Iowa speedway only has Autocross. Do they have something besides the oval, track wise? Where is Blackhawk? Is that the small track in Indiana? I really do want to hit up Road America at least once next season. How much $$ is the average weekend/day at Autobahn?

 

[Towelly]

+45mm

Thanks! But if +35 is set out farther to the corners, that is what I am looking for. In theory 45mm is sucked in farther right?

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

Thanks! But if +35 is set out farther to the corners, that is what I am looking for. In theory 45mm is sucked in farther right?

You're good to go with either option. Heck... if you can tell the difference between a 1" wider space between your tires, then you should be racing in Formula 1 and not participating in a HPDE or autox. LOL.

 

[Philostang]

Personally, I think +35 is great for a 9.5" wheel. The "look" is spot-on perfectly flush with the fenders, and of course there's the wider track advantage.

Blackhawk Farms is near the Wisconsin-Illinois border in South Beloit, IL. I too like the track, so much so that I may be helping to organize an event there in late May. If folks have an interest, PM me and I'll start a list. We're trying to keep in competitively priced.

Speaking of which, depending on the venue and the organization hosting the event, you're looking at anywhere from $150 - $225 on average for a single day of driving. That's a full day, 8am - 5pm, typically 4 to 6 runs for the day, 20 min. runs on average. Most Autobahn events run in the $200-$225/day range. Blackhawk is frequently in the lower range.

Best,
-j

 

[Philostang]

Here are the Rota G-force wheels: 18x9" with +30mm offset. At least for reference, you can see where they sit; very similar to the 18x9.5" +35mm offset.

And here's a nice shot of Dave's 18x9.5" +35mm wheels on my car (275/35-18 Hoosiers):

Finally, my 18x9.5" +35mm wheels:

Best,
-j

 

[Towelly]

Appreciate all this help everyone! Look forward to meeting some of you guys and wasting some rubber!

Sam - I will be in touch the second I have my 2011 ordered. Not quite prepared to start ordering parts for a car I do not yet have.

John & Dave - I will be in touch!

Grey Ghost - Appreciate all the advice man! Maybe you can come to our neck of the woods one day!

 

[Towelly]

Ok - Another question... Opinions on "Max" and "Ultra" Performance summer tires for a newbie such as myself? Thanks once again,

Jake

Edit: I am going to pose this question in the wheel/tire section. Probably a better idea so this one doesn't get moved.