6R80 in my 05

429244

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How firm are your shifts? I did the medium firm for the street driving because I didn't want it to be too harsh, but I'm wondering if making them firm in every gear would help eliminate some of that. I remember comparing tune files with Bruce Webb before his trans messed up and his shifts were much firmer than mine. Hopefully we can figure out something soon.


FYI: Karls email the other day mentioned Trans Brake integrated into the controller soon(maybe a month), but if I have to go send it in for the up date and go through 500+ miles of controller learning before I can go to the track I'm going to be upset.

I wish I had the time to respond in full here. I think the more info we get out, the better for all of us. In short, I started with MediumFirm 6000rpm file. It was fine with the previous controller version. When I got the new controller, I had issues. Short story: the TCC would engage and promptly release on the 5-6 shift. Karl felt the 6th gear shift occurred too soon. I never got it right so I scraped that tune and went to the Firm Shift shiftware and adjusted from there. That worked much better. At light throttle (10% throttle position), I am in 6th with TCC applied by 45 mph. I would bet that if you felt the shift in my car at light throttle (below 40% tp), you would think it is firm. I have been meaning to adjust the light throttle shift feel but I am waiting until I get a new torque converter installed (winter project).

EDIT: to better answer your question:
TPS 10% = firmness 26
TPS 40% = firmness 89
TPS 70% and above = 130
All gears are about the same firmness value. How does that compare to your tune?
 
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sportinawoody

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I'm taking baby steps on mine cause I'm a fish out of water with tuning a trans.I'm waiting to hear back from aaron lail as he's a master with 6r tuning. I'm using the street firm 6k but I noticed as I raised my shift points the flaring slowly went away but I get it sporadically mainly on the higher gears. I'm still only up to 10-20% throttle and still adjusting. Baby steps like I said. I'm still geared 3.73 for now but after I get some miles and $$$ I'll change them and readjust once I'm more fimiliar with what I'm doing. The TCC controls are totally alien to me and imtrying to source info on proper pressures, duty cycles etc. Anyone have a good source of info on this?
 

sportinawoody

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Maybe because I have a build date of 10/06 although it's titled an 07. There was a wire/pin already in that location from the factory. I just bit the bullet and bought a tach adapter and wired it in
 
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lito

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What is your PCM code? all 07 have them, mine is from an earlier date than yours and it has it.

EDIT: the difference on signal on a CTO than a tach adapter at low speeds is MASSIVE.
 

jodadejss06gt

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Just an update:
So based on my track visit on Sunday Sept 24th I've been working with Karl to try to fix my transmission Flare issue. The only way I can see it in the log is if Ratio Slip RPM, the purple line, turned on. In my track pass that slip shot way up to almost 4k rpm on my 2-3 and my engine RPM also shot up to almost 7k when I had asked it to shift around 5300.

Well through communication with Karl, he ended up compiling a massive amount of logs from me and from you guys to try to come up with a better baseline program for the high power cars. From low boost to high boost my car makes probably double the RWHP. Well I ended up having to save a file he emailed to me into the c:\Shiftware\PID4\5, open my tune, change the transmission type from 6r80 to 6r80-High Power. I had to write this to ALL TABLES, clear shift learn only, and reset my TPS info and then drive.

I did some back to back 10-20% pulls, then a few 30%, then sent them over to him for verification. They checked out so I went to some 45% and then hit a 70% pull(still only 6psi). He confirmed that all looked good so really I need to make a pass now to verify again that it is all good with no flare.

Honestly it is feeling pretty good the way it shifts now. I'm not sure when he is going to start sending that file to people to try out. I'm sure if you contact him he'll give it to you or I could as well. I doubt that file is custom to my car.

NOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you guys are making WOT pulls yet please verify that you aren't flaring. Bruce Webb out in Utah killed his stock trans at the track with flare issues. His car is running high 130s at a good bit of altitude too if that tells you anything.
 

429244

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Just an update:
So based on my track visit on Sunday Sept 24th I've been working with Karl to try to fix my transmission Flare issue. The only way I can see it in the log is if Ratio Slip RPM, the purple line, turned on. In my track pass that slip shot way up to almost 4k rpm on my 2-3 and my engine RPM also shot up to almost 7k when I had asked it to shift around 5300.

...

I have looked over some of my logs. Is Karl saying that the purple line (ratio slip rpm) should be flat? That number is close to 2000 at WOT on the logs that I am looking at.
 

jodadejss06gt

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"FIRMNESS"
I'll respond to the firmness first I didn't really adjust my firmness over what the medium-firm tune gave me.
10%=27
40%=63
70-100%=98

I may adjust this later I just remember going through a learn process and Karl had mentioned if you go too aggressive on the firmness during the learn process you won't be able to soften it up after it has learned. But if you start somewhere in the middle and decide you want it a little firmer you can always adjust upward. This seems pretty decent to me honestly. I can tell you one thing after Lund tuned my F150 ecoboost, that 1-2 and 2-3 feels like the trans is going to come out of the truck at WOT.



"FLARE"
I'm not going to do a very good job of explaining this but I'll try to convey what Karl told me. When the trans is between gears one clutch is releasing and the other applying. When this handoff isn't very smooth the "Ratio Slip RPM" will shoot up and also the engine RPM will shoot up as shown on the LEFT. Just imagine driving a stick being full throttle and blipping your clutch, if you don't push it all the way in the clutch will slip and the rpm will shoot up. Same thing here.

So in the graph on the left, you can see the RPM shoots north rapidly along with the Ratio Slip RPM(3962), this is my 2-3 shift. On the 3-4 shift it also shoots up a little but not as bad(2300 RPM). On the right you can see that all of the slip shoots up as the gear shift is being commanded holds, for a small period of time and then falls(the slip was only about 1700 rpm on my 2-3). The slip is a product of not enough pressure to complete the shift supposedly.

I hope this helps identify the "Flare" issue for you guys and at least have some idea what to look for in your logs. At this point if I know I'm going to be going all out I'm going to try to log just to make sure I'm keeping it safe. My trans is built so it will take a little more abuse but I'd rather stay on the safe side.
 

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sportinawoody

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I called about the flaring. Haven't got a call back yet. Mine is sporadic with different gears but something I noticed is that my tps% is way off from what the ECM puts out so I can't use my aeroforce to speed up the process.
 

jodadejss06gt

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I called about the flaring. Haven't got a call back yet. Mine is sporadic with different gears but something I noticed is that my tps% is way off from what the ECM puts out so I can't use my aeroforce to speed up the process.

Have you set the tps recently? Is it accurate? Mine is like 1.4 and 3.8 IIRC.
 

jodadejss06gt

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Well here is what you can do to verify you have it set correct:

Open up your tune file, go to settings, then TPS, then look at the Idle and WOT TPS voltages in the boxes. If you then key on with your laptop connected to the controller, look at the boxes below your tune file in the main screen, that displays all current info about your setup. The 3rd column has the tps voltage that the controller is currently seeing in it. I'd verify that what you saw in the TPS settings page is the same as what it is showing here at no pedal input and pushed all the way to the floor.


Sometimes if you change between tunes you have to re-verify that the numbers in the settings box didn't change around on you. A WOT pull for me ends up showing in a log file about 102-104% just because of a slight variation in the voltage being registered.

Hope this helps.
 

jodadejss06gt

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So last night I was able to do a WOT pull on the street at low boost to test and verify the shifting. Basically I wanted the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts. Those were the two that flared on me at the track. Karl already took a look at these shifts and said that they great and that there wasn't flare at all. So below is a baseline I guess for you guys to compare against. The car feels great and I can't wait to turn it back up. This boost started around 6 in 2nd and rose to about 8 by the time I hit 4th gear. I also am attaching the video for viewing pleasure.

 

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jodadejss06gt

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So last night I was able to do a WOT pull on the street at low boost to test and verify the shifting. Basically I wanted the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts. Those were the two that flared on me at the track. Karl already took a look at these shifts and said that they great and that there wasn't flare at all. So below is a baseline I guess for you guys to compare against. The car feels great and I can't wait to turn it back up. This boost started around 6 in 2nd and rose to about 8 by the time I hit 4th gear. I also am attaching the video for viewing pleasure.

 

drive_55_not

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So last night I was able to do a WOT pull on the street at low boost to test and verify the shifting. Basically I wanted the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts. Those were the two that flared on me at the track. Karl already took a look at these shifts and said that they great and that there wasn't flare at all. So below is a baseline I guess for you guys to compare against. The car feels great and I can't wait to turn it back up. This boost started around 6 in 2nd and rose to about 8 by the time I hit 4th gear. I also am attaching the video for viewing pleasure.

So what was done to get rid of the flare?

I've tracked mine a few times and getting a flare/slip on the 2/3 upshift. I've been making minor changes and ran a 6,89 last Sunday with it shifting into 4th,

I changed the shift points to boost aggressively under the TCC tab and that may have caused the 3/4 short shift as it didn't do it on my 2 earlier passes.

Other than that the tranny seems to be working fine,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caFnfp_rWp0

.
 

jodadejss06gt

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So what was done to get rid of the flare?

I've tracked mine a few times and getting a flare/slip on the 2/3 upshift. I've been making minor changes and ran a 6,89 last Sunday with it shifting into 4th,

I changed the shift points to boost aggressively under the TCC tab and that may have caused the 3/4 short shift as it didn't do it on my 2 earlier passes.

Other than that the tranny seems to be working fine,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caFnfp_rWp0

.


Nice pass! Mine from 2 weeks ago was 6.87@109. You must have gotten a really good 60 out of yours. So Karl had sent me a new .DEF file that I had to put into my computer then open my tune and change the trans type from regular 6r80 to highpower 6r80. If you email him, he will send it to you. Send him the log of your flare too so he can use that info to add more data points to his spread sheet. He's compiled all of our stuff to make that file more comprehensive.
 

JST4FN

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So what was done to get rid of the flare?

I've tracked mine a few times and getting a flare/slip on the 2/3 upshift. I've been making minor changes and ran a 6,89 last Sunday with it shifting into 4th,

I changed the shift points to boost aggressively under the TCC tab and that may have caused the 3/4 short shift as it didn't do it on my 2 earlier passes.

Other than that the tranny seems to be working fine,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caFnfp_rWp0

.

I definitely hear the flare on the 2-3, but the rest sounds good. I need to try a WOT run on just the wastegate springs and see what mine does. Unfortunately after I got the trans shift points and all like I wanted them I installed a Holley Dominator EFI system. I've spent the last few months getting it setup (also swapped to a return setup) to where I could drive it without issues. I think I've only been to 4500-5000 RPM's (at 8 psi),but the shifts were fine. I wish I had a local track as living in the city now kills my testing. I'm definitely keeping up with the issues you guys are having.
Thanks Mike
 

429244

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So what was done to get rid of the flare?

I've tracked mine a few times and getting a flare/slip on the 2/3 upshift. I've been making minor changes and ran a 6,89 last Sunday with it shifting into 4th,

I changed the shift points to boost aggressively under the TCC tab and that may have caused the 3/4 short shift as it didn't do it on my 2 earlier passes.

Other than that the tranny seems to be working fine,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caFnfp_rWp0

.

Nice pass! You track lets you run that fast without a jacket?
That's what my mine sounds like om the 2-3 shift. I'm also confused about exactly what Karl is doing to fix the issue. I emailed Karl Tuesday and I am waiting for a response. I'm hoping that setting the shift firmness high is helping.
 

drive_55_not

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Nice pass! You track lets you run that fast without a jacket?
That's what my mine sounds like om the 2-3 shift. I'm also confused about exactly what Karl is doing to fix the issue. I emailed Karl Tuesday and I am waiting for a response. I'm hoping that setting the shift firmness high is helping.


I usually do wear a jacket/gloves when using the bottle but was only shooting a little 75shot ... I'll start working toward the 250shot I was hitting the T56 with now that I've sorted a couple other issues out I had with the controller.

I hope you guys talking to Karl get better results than I did, I called him to ask about a 1/2 sec dead spot when launching [which killed my 60'] and a couple other issues I was getting when I 1st tracked the 6R. I've made several changes trying to help the 2/3 flare but nothing has made any difference so far.

I figured out the dead spot was from having the torque converter locked in ALL GEARS when WOT. That setting is under the TCC setup. Changing it to 2nd-6th only WOT I went from a 1.7 60' to 1.49. I've also got a fairly tight converter as it starts pushing thru the tires footbraking at 2600rpm ,, but it does light off like a rattlesnake after releasing the brakes.

I'm still running Hoosier slicks ,, I need to get a set of drag radials and if I can get them to hook I can see cutting 1,3xx 60's with a healthy shot.

As far a fixing flare issues, I know the 6R solenoids are flow matched when the tranny is built and Ford warns you are supposed to run a shift strategy that matches the solenoid strategy or transmission damage will occur, so this needs to be corrected...


.
 

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