Advice on Rotating Assembly Components

[Dubstep Shep]

Well, now that I have an engine block on the way, I'm in the market for rotating assembly components.

Basically I'm wanting to do a 5.0L stroker, with a compression ratio in the low 9s, maybe high 8s. The goal here is to build a short block capable of 1000+ HP and extreme reliability. Quality of the parts is key to me, and basically I'm looking at the best production components offered. No need to get crazy with one off pieces here lol.

Here's my list of things I thinnk I need, and what brands I'm looking at getting:
Pistons: Diamond or CP
Connecting Rods: Manley or Oliver
Crankshaft: Kellogg
Wrist Pins: Diamond, CP, or Trend Performance
Piston Rings: Diamond, CP, or Total Seal
Main Bearings: Clevite
Connecting Rod Bearings: Clevite
Fasteners: ARP

So basically, here's the point of this thread:

Are there any better choices for brand on these components?

Am I forgetting anything major in my list?

What coatings, if any, should I look at for my pistons?

Should I look at getting my components shot-peened, cryo treated, or something else?

Are there any vendors here that carry ALL of these brands?
For simplicity's sake I usually prefer dealing with a single vendor. I might also choose to piece my RA together, but who knows. I actually made a spread sheet on this, and from what I can tell based on what's available on the websites, there are only four sponsors that offer internal engine components in the brands I'm looking at.
JDM Engineering: CP and Kellogg
Justin's Performance Center: Manley and ARP
Lethal Performance: Diamond, CP, Manley, Oliver, and ARP
Holcomb Motorsports Inc: Diamond, Manley, Total Seal, Clevite, and ARP
If there are more vendors or if the vendors listed carry more brands I'm all ears. That list is just what I found based on the list of vendors here and the product list for the vendors on their websites. I'm also looking at Excessive Motorsports as a Vendor, but they aren't with the forum to my knowledge, so they're lower on my list.

 

[TurboX]

The goal here is to build a short block capable of 1000+ HP and extreme reliability.

I can tell you from experience, it is all in the tune.

I suggest Oliver rods, ARP2000 fasteners, higher compression than high 8 low 9. Pistons skirts and tops should be coated, bearings coated and possibly the pins. headwork is also crucial, I suggest JPC or Foxlake. Not any shop can assemble a 1000hp motor, I suggest you don't shop for the rotating assembly but instead shop for a built short block.

 

[dysan]

1000+ HP and extreme reliability shouldn't be in the same sentence especially with our small blocks. The other parts you should include if you are really shooting for this is all Jesel valve train components which is stupid expensive as well. I would also look into some sort of billet tensioner arms but so far the only place I have seen them is from MMR which doesn't have the best rep especially on this forum.

My engine I built last winter should have been able to handle 1000hp with the internals I had in it but after all the good stuff I put in it the block turned out to be weak and was flexing. All 4 cylinders on the driver's side were out of round after one season of racing so my $1500 custom made diamond pistons have to get thrown in the trash. I was only running 8-9psi of boost all year making maybe high 400's to low 500's at the tires and this happened.

 

[crownaviation]

There are a few things you want to do with the block like radius edges, and a few things that will help increase strength. I also like the shot peen idea for the crank but the forged cranks out there can handle some serious power and have not been a target of horror stories. You can race prep the crank.. saves some rotating weight there and will rev faster, less paracitic loss. Few companies out there capable but have not looked in a while.. I just let my machinist deal with all that but can ask them who we used as I know he farms it out

I do like anodized pistons.. Teflon skirts tend to wear quick on strokers just from what I have observed on car that do more than 1/4 passes

 

[skwerl]

Rather than forging new ground, I would suggest following the tried and true path of least resistance. Find the 1000 horsepower Mustangs and see who's motors are in them. After you find 25-30 of them you should have a very good idea of who should supply you with your engine.

I was under the impression that this was your DD though. At 1000hp you're not going to be driving it on the street every day. For one, you won't be able to run pump gas. This was the primary consideration for my build and I've had to work at sticking to it. My car WILL be a daily driver and run on pump gas. Seems like regardless of the builder, about 600-650hp is the farthest you can take a 4.6/5.0 mod motor on pump gas. I know a guy on this forum who spent over $40K building his engine and drivetrain hoping for an 800+ hp beast. But in order to run pump gas he has had to dial back the timing and boost and now he's at 599hp.

So my suggestion is to get realistic about your goals. A week ago you were looking for price estimates so you would know how much to borrow from mama in order to get the car running again. You're in school and not working (from what you've told us) so this thread is nothing but a pipe dream. Unless you just got a huge inheritance and money is no longer an issue, this thread is nothing but masturbation material.

 

[crownaviation]

1000+ HP and extreme reliability shouldn't be in the same sentence especially with our small blocks. The other parts you should include if you are really shooting for this is all Jesel valve train components which is stupid expensive as well. I would also look into some sort of billet tensioner arms but so far the only place I have seen them is from MMR which doesn't have the best rep especially on this forum.

My engine I built last winter should have been able to handle 1000hp with the internals I had in it but after all the good stuff I put in it the block turned out to be weak and was flexing. All 4 cylinders on the driver's side were out of round after one season of racing so my $1500 custom made diamond pistons have to get thrown in the trash. I was only running 8-9psi of boost all year making maybe high 400's to low 500's at the tires and this happened.

I would love me some Jessel... but DAMN!!! pricey.

Also,,, think the OP is going to keep the power down a bit for a while atleast. . just overbuilding? 1000hp is pretty insane and will require a bunch of ongoing maintenance. Not familiar with any 50,000 mile 1000 hp motors out there. Now build to those levels and 600-700 should last for a real long time.

I plan to freshen mine up every winter weather it needs it or not

There are absolutely ZERO guarantees on that type of power.. if there is a defect or weak link you WILL find it. Plus entire drive train is now a certified weak point. You can get a nice build motor to reasonably handle 600 with reliability but over that level there is no such thing if you plan to run it hard (which you will lol)

 

[skwerl]

The entire drivetrain will need to be replaced for that power level. Everything from the radiator to the rear axle. Got an extra $100K lying around?

 

[BadPiggy]

Oliver rods, for certain.

Just build a 600hp motor and throw a 200 shot at it in those times of "need."
LOL

 

[crownaviation]

The entire drivetrain will need to be replaced for that power level. Everything from the radiator to the rear axle. Got an extra $100K lying around?

This.

Even built for say some theoretical number like 1000 does not mean there is any guarantee.. just increases your odds.

Not all things that should last and be "safe" will (as you are aware). You were running WAY below the power level most run and used the best tuner I know and still did not work out. Just proves you did it right and things can and sometimes do go wrong.

600 is freggin ridiculous power for a true "street car". At that level you need a trans eventually. Your axle is good with all you have done to it (very nice work btw.. ) You will still need a ton of cooling, maybe e85 if convenient and not sure about your clutch. Fuel and cooling are overlooked more than they should be. With some 60's you should be able to run e85 and make 600 so that is cheap.. but ask a few guys on here if they have made that on the GT500 pump and e85 with 60's.. maybe need more..

You could build up and just keep boost in check till the time is right to continue the build but will take some discipline.. I can think of a bunch of people including myself that just can't resist the urge to keep building. At some point tho, you will regret it if this is to be a "enjoyable" street car. You have ridden in mine lol. It is fun for the first 30 minutes or so.. then you are def, numb and broke lol.

I honestly miss the 450hp nice ride.. too late to turn back now for me.

 

[BruceH]

Rather than forging new ground, I would suggest following the tried and true path of least resistance. Find the 1000 horsepower Mustangs and see who's motors are in them. After you find 25-30 of them you should have a very good idea of who should supply you with your engine.

That's funny. I wonder how much boost all of those 1k hp cars are running?

 

[weather man]

Happy with my Coast High Performance rotating assembly.

 

[REDS197]

I would keep stock compression. If you have E85 this is a no brainier in my opinion.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Whoa. Didn't expect that many responses over dinner lol.

I can tell you from experience, it is all in the tune.

I suggest Oliver rods, ARP2000 fasteners, higher compression than high 8 low 9. Pistons skirts and tops should be coated, bearings coated and possibly the pins. headwork is also crucial, I suggest JPC or Foxlake. Not any shop can assemble a 1000hp motor, I suggest you don't shop for the rotating assembly but instead shop for a built short block.

The point isn't to run 1000hp as soon as the short block is in. I want it to be capable of that down the road, but I'm not going to be bumping my boost up past 12lbs for right now.

1000+ HP and extreme reliability shouldn't be in the same sentence especially with our small blocks. The other parts you should include if you are really shooting for this is all Jesel valve train components which is stupid expensive as well. I would also look into some sort of billet tensioner arms but so far the only place I have seen them is from MMR which doesn't have the best rep especially on this forum.

My engine I built last winter should have been able to handle 1000hp with the internals I had in it but after all the good stuff I put in it the block turned out to be weak and was flexing. All 4 cylinders on the driver's side were out of round after one season of racing so my $1500 custom made diamond pistons have to get thrown in the trash. I was only running 8-9psi of boost all year making maybe high 400's to low 500's at the tires and this happened.

Well like I said, I'll be making a lot more upgrades before I plan on running any more power at all. I just don't want to build a short block now, which I have to do, and then have to rebuild it at a later point. Do it once, do it Right.

There are a few things you want to do with the block like radius edges, and a few things that will help increase strength. I also like the shot peen idea for the crank but the forged cranks out there can handle some serious power and have not been a target of horror stories. You can race prep the crank.. saves some rotating weight there and will rev faster, less paracitic loss. Few companies out there capable but have not looked in a while.. I just let my machinist deal with all that but can ask them who we used as I know he farms it out

I do like anodized pistons.. Teflon skirts tend to wear quick on strokers just from what I have observed on car that do more than 1/4 passes

Jim, I'm gonna have to get your machinists contact info hahaha.

What about a Moly skirt coating?

I know MMR offers a race prepped, shot peened, cryo treated Kellogg crank, so I'm sure someone else does as well. I'd rather not buy from MMR if avoidable...

Rather than forging new ground, I would suggest following the tried and true path of least resistance. Find the 1000 horsepower Mustangs and see who's motors are in them. After you find 25-30 of them you should have a very good idea of who should supply you with your engine.

I was under the impression that this was your DD though. At 1000hp you're not going to be driving it on the street every day. For one, you won't be able to run pump gas. This was the primary consideration for my build and I've had to work at sticking to it. My car WILL be a daily driver and run on pump gas. Seems like regardless of the builder, about 600-650hp is the farthest you can take a 4.6/5.0 mod motor on pump gas. I know a guy on this forum who spent over $40K building his engine and drivetrain hoping for an 800+ hp beast. But in order to run pump gas he has had to dial back the timing and boost and now he's at 599hp.

So my suggestion is to get realistic about your goals. A week ago you were looking for price estimates so you would know how much to borrow from mama in order to get the car running again. You're in school and not working (from what you've told us) so this thread is nothing but a pipe dream. Unless you just got a huge inheritance and money is no longer an issue, this thread is nothing but masturbation material.

For right now, it is my daily driver. In a few years it won't be. Also I won't be running 1000hp while it is my daily driver, because exactly like you said, I won't be running pump gas.

Look, I don't know you, and you certainly don't know me, but how about you leave my family and my finances out of your little snarky comments? I think we'll get along much better as far as that's concerned. If you must know, I have a large savings account that I built up while I was in High School, and have kept at a high level since then. I have a full ride academic scholarship, so my only real expenses are rent, utilities, and food. I've also been making about 50% annually on stock I've been trading, so suffice it to say I've got more than a few grand to blow.

I would love me some Jessel... but DAMN!!! pricey.

Also,,, think the OP is going to keep the power down a bit for a while atleast. . just overbuilding? 1000hp is pretty insane and will require a bunch of ongoing maintenance. Not familiar with any 50,000 mile 1000 hp motors out there. Now build to those levels and 600-700 should last for a real long time.

I plan to freshen mine up every winter weather it needs it or not

There are absolutely ZERO guarantees on that type of power.. if there is a defect or weak link you WILL find it. Plus entire drive train is now a certified weak point. You can get a nice build motor to reasonably handle 600 with reliability but over that level there is no such thing if you plan to run it hard (which you will lol)

You're correct. I won't even be turning up my boost for now.

Will I ever run 1000hp? I don't know. Maybe. In all honesty I doubt I'll ever really want/need that once I start working my way up there. That doesn't change that it's a lot cheaper to build it for that now than to build for 600 now and then rebuild for 1000 later.

Definitely before I turn up the boost I'll be getting a new transmission and axle.

The entire drivetrain will need to be replaced for that power level. Everything from the radiator to the rear axle. Got an extra $100K lying around?

I'm quite aware lol. This isn't a weekend project, and I have no delusions about cost or time.

This.

Even built for say some theoretical number like 1000 does not mean there is any guarantee.. just increases your odds.

Not all things that should last and be "safe" will (as you are aware). You were running WAY below the power level most run and used the best tuner I know and still did not work out. Just proves you did it right and things can and sometimes do go wrong.

600 is freggin ridiculous power for a true "street car". At that level you need a trans eventually. Your axle is good with all you have done to it (very nice work btw.. ) You will still need a ton of cooling, maybe e85 if convenient and not sure about your clutch. Fuel and cooling are overlooked more than they should be. With some 60's you should be able to run e85 and make 600 so that is cheap.. but ask a few guys on here if they have made that on the GT500 pump and e85 with 60's.. maybe need more..

You could build up and just keep boost in check till the time is right to continue the build but will take some discipline.. I can think of a bunch of people including myself that just can't resist the urge to keep building. At some point tho, you will regret it if this is to be a "enjoyable" street car. You have ridden in mine lol. It is fun for the first 30 minutes or so.. then you are def, numb and broke lol.

I honestly miss the 450hp nice ride.. too late to turn back now for me.

Simply from an engineering standpoint, it would seem that a 1000hp engine would be more reliable at 700hp than a 800hp engine would, all other things being constant that is.

Also, remind me to send you pics of my clutch I just pulled out lol. It's baaaaad.

The goal with this car, at least at the end, isn't a street car. This car will eventually be my dedicated track car, and in all reality it only has to last until this summer and I get something else. At that point the miles stop going up and the garage time does lol.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

The plan is once I get out of school to get another car that's a bit more reliable, comfortable, and easier on the wallet at the pump. At that point the Bullitt loses status as a DD and becomes a weekend warrior. Not too long after that it becomes a dedicated track car.

 

[crownaviation]

Makes sense. The more you prep for your final goals the cheaper it will be in the long term. Many start with zero long term goals and that is not the way to go. And sounds like you have a better idea going into it what you want than most who just end up there.. I bought a few things I regret as I had to upgrade again later. Keep in mind tho that sometimes plans change and a direction change later is gawd aweful expensive learning curve

 

[BadPiggy]

Wait a minute.
Hold the damn phone.

If this will eventually be a dedicated track car...and tracking to you is road courses, not straight lines...
WHY in the hell do you want 1000hp, eventually?
WTF are you gonna do with it?

I think in one of your recent threads, several "trackers" with way more experience than you, told you keep your HP down so it's drivable.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Makes sense. The more you prep for your final goals the cheaper it will be in the long term. Many start with zero long term goals and that is not the way to go. And sounds like you have a better idea going into it what you want than most who just end up there.. I bought a few things I regret as I had to upgrade again later. Keep in mind tho that sometimes plans change and a direction change later is gawd aweful expensive learning curve

Yea, I certainly don't want to go down one road and then decide on another later on. I've certainly planned my mods accordingly thus far.

I would have like to have waited on the engine but that one was really forced on me. I'm just doing the best with the cards I've been dealt.

The way I see it there's no way I'm going to run less than 700 at the crank in the end. I think my final will probably be similar to what you're running now in the power department.

 

[BadPiggy]

And furthermore, Shep...WHY aren't you a "Supporting Member" with $15 of your fat bank roll? You're certainly getting your money's worth, IMO.

skwerl and myself are...and we be broke ass bitches.
LOL

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Wait a minute.
Hold the damn phone.

If this will eventually be a dedicated track car...and tracking to you is road courses, not straight lines...
WHY in the hell do you want 1000hp, eventually?
WTF are you gonna do with it?

I think in one of your recent threads, several "trackers" with way more experience than you, told you keep your HP down so it's drivable.

How much power is too much?

In my opinion, it's when you can smoke your tires from corner to corner on power alone.

1000 is probably overkill for that, but I'd rather build for 1000 and run 700 than build for 600 and decide I need more later.

And furthermore, Shep...WHY aren't you a "Supporting Member" with $15 of your fat bank roll? You're certainly getting your money's worth, IMO.

skwerl and myself are...and we be broke ass bitches.
LOL

Hahaha I'll have to look into it. I don't like spending money expect on beer and my car. I eat ramen, pasta, and frozen chicken so I can spend more on my car.

But any chance of getting back to my original questions? I'd like to have a few more specifics before I start calling manufacturers and vendors.

 

[BadPiggy]

How much power is too much?

In my opinion, it's when you can smoke your tires from corner to corner on power alone.

1000 is probably overkill for that, but I'd rather build for 1000 and run 700 than build for 600 and decide I need more later.

Now you've opened up an entirely new can.
Let's say you get your 1000 and are able to smoke it corner to corner.....
How are you going to get the power to the ground?

I'm just thinking out loud here, but I'll tell you what I'm thinking....
I'm thinking if that car will eventually be a dedicated track car....
I'm thinking to make that one of the best cars on the track to have the most fun with...
I'm thinking...a solid NA car with the best suspension money can buy, Griggs.
Just thinking out loud.