Can I swap O2 sensors by soldering?

[sevenleaf]

I have been having a problem.

Either a messed up motor a bad sensor someplace or a tune, but everything WAS running awesome this issue just devolped.

I replaced plugs, COPS, Fuel System, Crank Pully, Idler Pulley and swapped to a smaller belt. Even tried a tune from a new tuner.

I'm positive it's not belt slip, I'm pretty sure it's not a loose pulley or a vacuum leak. I'm trying to see if I can fix the issue before I pay a lot of money at a shop.

When I start to get on the throttle about 90% of the time the exhaust will stutter. I don't really notice a loss in power but I know the way the exhaust should sound and this isn't normal.

Here is a video clip of the problem. As I rev the car you hear something that sounds like bubbles in the exhaust. I have this problem in netural going WOT or just revving the engine. The wideband will peak to around 16 - 20 during the gurgle. The problem isn't in the whole throttle positon only when I start to give it gas. The problem is NOT under 7 vacuum and is NOT over 5 pounds of boost

I noticed once in a while the boost gauge will stutter at this same moment. I thought I fixed the problem by fixing a vacuum leak in the boost gauge but I guess it was a spoof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2mc3skFaPQ Watch at 5 pounds.

In order to rule out the O2 sensors I was wondering If I can take the rear O2 sensors cut the sensor's off and splice in the plugs from the front. Keep the plugs but splice in new sensors.... Does anyone see a problem with this?

Thanks

 

[MikeVistaBlue06]

I don't think your O2 sensors are the issue. Doc (Hawgman) had a problem similar to yours and wound up replacing the entire PCM. His wideband A/F would go way lean at times and then come back rich, etc. Basically all over the place.

I am not sure if the O2 sensors in the front are the same as the ones in the back part number wise. Also, cutting and soldering in that area is inviting problems later on due to corrosion.

I would recommend you take it to your tuner (ST) and let them have a look at it. Mine had a stutter in it and Manny at HPP tuned it out as I drove the car.

Hope this helps and good luck.

Mike

 

[GIG4FUN]

I have heard (here on this board) that other than the plug, the sensors are the same.

 

[sevenleaf]

I don't think your O2 sensors are the issue. Doc (Hawgman) had a problem similar to yours and wound up replacing the entire PCM. His wideband A/F would go way lean at times and then come back rich, etc. Basically all over the place.

I am not sure if the O2 sensors in the front are the same as the ones in the back part number wise. Also, cutting and soldering in that area is inviting problems later on due to corrosion.

I would recommend you take it to your tuner (ST) and let them have a look at it. Mine had a stutter in it and Manny at HPP tuned it out as I drove the car.

Hope this helps and good luck.

I really don't think it's a tune issue the car was running awesome and this issue devolped pretty much overnight. I tried the brenspeed tune I used a long time ago with no problems like this, I think I heard it start after revving the engine a bunch under an overpass, the issue then cleared itself and thought nothing more of it.

Do you know what hawgman did to test the PCM?

GIG4FUN Thanks for the information If no one else gives any input I'm going to give the o2 sensors a shot.

Something to note, I'm pretty sure the boost gauge AND the fuel pressure gauge both stutter at the exact time the wideband goes very lean and the engine makes the gurggle sound.

 

[lostsoul]

I have heard (here on this board) that other than the plug, the sensors are the same.

They are. one has a 10" cord and other is 15". I replaced both of mine because a tuner could not figure out if he turned of the CMRC deletes. Price at Kragens was like 50 bucks.. if your in doubt just go there get one and try it.. then if dont work take it back and get your money back.

 

[Hawgman]

Do you know what hawgman did to test the PCM?

Start with this thread here and continue with this thread here

But your symptoms sound different

 

[Dex]

I have the same problem but more so in the morning. I was thinking it was the 02's also. I havent tried switching them yet but thats my next step. It started after my HP kit install. I wonder if I fouled them somehow.

 

[TexasBlownV8]

The best thing to do, for those with tuner devices, is to datalog what your car is doing. You can see proper operation of the O2 sensors, timing, fuel, etc, and nail down what is going wrong. These cars have significant diagnostic capabilities and provide a large amount of data, all you have to do is access it. (Not like the days of carburators and vacuum assisted timing!)

I doubt you are having an O2 sensor issue, because if you would, you'd likely get fault codes. There's a lot of diagnostics on and around those sensors, as they are crucial for proper air/fuel and polution control.

If you do have a vacuum leak, that will cause you havoc; you'd see it on your fuel trims under datalogging (running with fairly high positive values on long term trim).
I'd also recommend checking your spark plugs, especially if it's been awhile since you changed them. Mine did that after about 6 months or so after tuning the first time, and several of my plugs' electrodes were partially deteriorated and needed replacing; that fixed the issue.

 

[Dex]

What about high negitive long term fuel trims?

 

[belzebub2u]

have you checked you MAF, if you got a bug in the intake (it happens) that can cause some really weird things

 

[MikeVistaBlue06]

The best thing to do, for those with tuner devices, is to datalog what your car is doing. You can see proper operation of the O2 sensors, timing, fuel, etc, and nail down what is going wrong. These cars have significant diagnostic capabilities and provide a large amount of data, all you have to do is access it. (Not like the days of carburators and vacuum assisted timing!)

I doubt you are having an O2 sensor issue, because if you would, you'd likely get fault codes. There's a lot of diagnostics on and around those sensors, as they are crucial for proper air/fuel and polution control.

If you do have a vacuum leak, that will cause you havoc; you'd see it on your fuel trims under datalogging (running with fairly high positive values on long term trim).
I'd also recommend checking your spark plugs, especially if it's been awhile since you changed them. Mine did that after about 6 months or so after tuning the first time, and several of my plugs' electrodes were partially deteriorated and needed replacing; that fixed the issue.

+1

This is how Manny fixed mine!

Mike

 

[MikeVistaBlue06]

have you checked you MAF, if you got a bug in the intake (it happens) that can cause some really weird things

+1

Also make sure that everything is sealed correctly past the MAF. An air leak past the MAF can cause issues as well. I've had that one too!

Mike

 

[sevenleaf]

I appreciate everyones suggestions so here's what I did lastnight. I will do some datalogging tonight.

I pulled the Carbon fiber inlet tube replaced it with the Saleen Extreme inlet tube, I replaced the Steeda Air filter with a second one I had laying around.

Same problem.

I did notice this morning that when I tap the gas if the car doesn't go lean that second I have no problems, If I let off the gas and tap it again if it goes lean the car has the issue. It seems like the car isn't always adding fuel when it should be. It doesn't do it 100% of the time more like 95%. I hit the throttle to about 2 pounds of boost and held it there, the car stayed at 17 AFR until I pushed the throttle some more.

Could it be a MAF going bad? A clogged injector by chance?

I triple checked all the vacuum hoses and everything holds pressure. I even went ahead and zip tied everywhere a tube connects. Still same issue.

 

[sevenleaf]

Man After reading hawgman's thread's it's like I'm reading posts of mine in the future. I have been thinking the exact same crap he did, I'm ready to pull out the intercooler and make sure I didn't mess up the butterfly valve. Not that our symptoms are 100% the same I feel exactly in the same boat. I am so ready to ditch this car for something else.

I also had a pump actuator go bad, my first one seperated at the diaphram drove like that for a few weeks. (that was like 5 - 6 months ago)

I already swapped my injectors (not replaced) replaced plugs replaced dampner I replaced my COPS Installed the GT500 fuel system AND replaced the stock fpdm, I already started throwing parts at this issue and still have it, god maybe I should just replace my ECU and be done with it. I'm not throwing any codes.

I used throttle body cleaner and sprayed ALL around the supercharger, the manifold the vacuum lines everything nothing changed. I pulled the power on each COP and heard a change.

 

[Dex]

time to try a ecu

 

[belzebub2u]

no, i had kinda the same problem when i a reworked my turbo, not exactly, but same kinda stuff. the diablo MAFia was not doing its job right (my fault) so i would look at the MAF and find a friend with a stang and try swapping it out just to check before moving to the all powerful ECU

 

[sevenleaf]

no, i had kinda the same problem when i a reworked my turbo, not exactly, but same kinda stuff. the diablo MAFia was not doing its job right (my fault) so i would look at the MAF and find a friend with a stang and try swapping it out just to check before moving to the all powerful ECU

Man I wish I had friends I don't know anyone with a supercharged car or even a s197 here in south carolina. I wasted 60 bucks on a FPDM that wasn't bad, atleast I have a spare sitting around now.


Anyone in Columbia have some time?

I am waiting for a call back to see if there is a problem with the ECU if it will be covered under warranty.

 

[Hawgman]

For what it's worth replacing the PCM cured the leaning out condition.

 

[sevenleaf]

I did some datalogging but when I hit stop livelink froze on me ofcourse.

Piece of crap software, anyways Today was really bad. When I started to drive the car it went really lean like 19 +, the more gas I gave the leaner the car got was stuttering REALLY bad. I mean worried bad like going to blow the motor. I had to stop and let the car sit a second then it was better. Still bad but not going leaner the more gas I gave.

Does that mean anything? The more gas I gave the leaner the gauge read the worse the car sounded

After all the datalogging all I was able to save is this: Not much good, when I go WOT the AFR is 11.2 - 11.4 so that is good its only NOT at WOT. ( once I get the pedal to the floor everything is fine, as I begin to push the pedal to the floor the AFR jumps around bad until the pedal is fully down)

Hawgman did you have normal AFR when you were in WOT?

 

[GIG4FUN]

I wonder...

Could the carbon traces on your footpedal be suspect at this point?

I think so.