Damn!! Now what?

[2006torquefreak]

One more question guys. I dont know too much about how the charge motion plates operate. But do they open up on a cold start? The reason why i ask is to try to isolate my issues because I noticed this morning when i start the car it idled low like 500 then to 0 and shut off. tried twice to crank same thing. To get the car to stay running I had to hold in the gas for a few seconds then it went stable. This is a problem I noticed happening ocasionally but this morning it happened again. Thanks

 

[Boozshey]

Almost sounds like MAF problem or TB problem... If you are giving it gas you are essentially choking the engine old school style... hmmm... right?

 

[SUHleen]

Ok. Thanks. If it is the plates I think I may just delete them because I should have done this a long time ago. I know the plugs are good because I had new plugs put in this year. Hopefully it is a simple fix but we will see. Thanks for the good info.

I'd still check the plugs, a tune being off by a little can easily ruin good plugs.

But I'm with boozshey, I think its a TB/TPS problem

 

[JeremyH]

Im with boozhey, are you blow-thru or draw-thru?, inspect and clean the maf as well.
And the delete plates are a must do mod for boost imho.

 

[2006torquefreak]

Im with boozhey, are you blow-thru or draw-thru?, inspect and clean the maf as well.
And the delete plates are a must do mod for boost imho.

Im draw thru. I talked to my tuner and they are going to get it in the shop asap. I post when I find out. thanks for all the responses. I will also check the maf.

 

[ticketman]

My mustang gt (saleen supercharger) did the same thing and after I checked the plugs, cleaned the MAF everything else looked good. Long story short it was my aftermarket coil packs. After talking to several shops, I learned that the aftermarket ones have such a high failure rate that people are not recommending them now. I changed mine back to stock and bam! Back to 440rwhp! Hope this helps. Think about it, the fuel is there and its not being lit due to something. Air/fuel/spark

 

[psfracer]

I am going with plugs. The rich 10:0 is the result of a misfire in a few cylinders. I once got water by the spark plugs and the car ran like crap. Pulled all of the spark plug boots, replaced the plugs, got rid of the water, and the car ran great.

Did you recently clean your engine compartment? If the car is changing rpms while at cruise it could be just fouled plugs also. But definitely a problem with spark is my guess......

 

[saud alzaabi]

The reason is shut off on cold starts is the the TB was dirty.. Check it as I have had over 6 cars having same problems and all lead to a dirty TB..

As for the Lean issue just check all your pipes.. there may be a leaking connection in the pipes ? or its the CMCV delete plates getting stuck due to massive oil shit from the Intake manifold..

 

[s8v4o]

I am going with plugs. The rich 10:0 is the result of a misfire in a few cylinders. I once got water by the spark plugs and the car ran like crap. Pulled all of the spark plug boots, replaced the plugs, got rid of the water, and the car ran great.

Did you recently clean your engine compartment? If the car is changing rpms while at cruise it could be just fouled plugs also. But definitely a problem with spark is my guess......

Wouldn't a misfire result in a "false lean" condition? A misfire means unburt oxygen is passing the O2 sensor. The O2 sensor doesn't actually read the amount of fuel in the exhaust as I'm sure you already know, only oxygen. I'm with you though it sounds like plugs but I think the AFR would go up and not down

OP, how much boost are you running? When you installed the plugs what gap did you set them at?

 

[s8v4o]

Did you recently clean your engine compartment? If the car is changing rpms while at cruise it could be just fouled plugs also. But definitely a problem with spark is my guess......

After I clean my motor the first thing I do is use compressed air and blow out all of the puddled water near the boots. I haven't had a problem yet using that method.

 

[s8v4o]

As for the Lean issue just check all your pipes.. there may be a leaking connection in the pipes ? or its the CMCV delete plates getting stuck due to massive oil shit from the Intake manifold..

Lean issue? Maybe I overlooked something but I'm under the assumption it's running rich........ AFR = 10.0


OP, do you have a catch can?

 

[psfracer]

Wouldn't a misfire result in a "false lean" condition? A misfire means unburt oxygen is passing the O2 sensor. The O2 sensor doesn't actually read the amount of fuel in the exhaust as I'm sure you already know, only oxygen. I'm with you though it sounds like plugs but I think the AFR would go up and not down

OP, how much boost are you running? When you installed the plugs what gap did you set them at?

No, a misfire results in unburnt FUEL, i.e. rich condition. Have you ever had a cylinder not fire?--Pull the plug and its black, i.e. rich, not white i.e. lean.

 

[Fallenauthority]

Wouldn't a misfire result in a "false lean" condition? A misfire means unburt oxygen is passing the O2 sensor. The O2 sensor doesn't actually read the amount of fuel in the exhaust as I'm sure you already know, only oxygen. I'm with you though it sounds like plugs but I think the AFR would go up and not down

OP, how much boost are you running? When you installed the plugs what gap did you set them at?

No, when you are drowning your O2 sensor in raw unburned fuel it is going to read pig rich.

 

[2006torquefreak]

Lean issue? Maybe I overlooked something but I'm under the assumption it's running rich........ AFR = 10.0


OP, do you have a catch can?

You right. It's rich not lean. I run breathers on both sides. Plugs is possible. I put on a new air filter Friday. Last time I cleaned mine and the turbo sucked excess oil and somehow screwed up my plugs. Could be happening again from filter change but the filter seemed dry. It goes to the shop in the morning. I will post results when I know.

 

[Fallenauthority]

You right. It's rich not lean. I run breathers on both sides. Plugs is possible. I put on a new air filter Friday. Last time I cleaned mine and the turbo sucked excess oil and somehow screwed up my plugs. Could be happening again from filter change but the filter seemed dry. It goes to the shop in the morning. I will post results when I know.

I dont see there being enough oil on the airfilter for the turbo to suck it through and ruin plugs, now the MAF on the other hand, oil will screw up the signal if it get on it.

 

[2006torquefreak]

When I cleaned my old one I over oiled it. The new one, I agree. Not enough oil. We will see.

 

[ChevyKiller]

I am going with plugs. The rich 10:0 is the result of a misfire in a few cylinders. I once got water by the spark plugs and the car ran like crap. Pulled all of the spark plug boots, replaced the plugs, got rid of the water, and the car ran great.

Did you recently clean your engine compartment? If the car is changing rpms while at cruise it could be just fouled plugs also. But definitely a problem with spark is my guess......

I'm with you Paul - he may need to have his tune adjusted in the end, but it sure sounds like a fouled plug to me, nothing more.

What you are describing poster is exactly the outcome of when you have fouled plug(s)

 

[s8v4o]

No, a misfire results in unburnt FUEL, i.e. rich condition. Have you ever had a cylinder not fire?--Pull the plug and its black, i.e. rich, not white i.e. lean.

Guys, I know how a misfire results in a "true" rich condition, but do you guys truly know how a wideband O2 works? Again, the O2 sensor reads OXYGEN, or unburt oxygen rather. The only way an O2 gets an accurate reading is if the burn is complete, then it reads the left over oxygen content. That's why a misfire fools the wideband into thinking the mixture is leaner than it is. Certain parts of the LM1 wideband manual can be confusing but here it is in black and white.

As per Innovates Manual on the LM1

1. Overview SNIPED

The measurement Lambda is the actual air fuel ratio over the stoichiometric ratio. A Lambda
measurement of “1” equates to the air fuel ratio of 14.7 (for gasoline engines). When Lambda is
less than 1 the engine runs “rich”, i.e., unburned fuel exists in the exhaust stream. If lambda is
greater than 1 the engine runs lean, i.e., free oxygen (02) is present in the exhaust. Depending on
the engine, maximum power is typically delivered when the engine runs slightly rich (for example
at lambda values of 0.8 to 0.9 for most engines). This instrument provides a means to measure
the actual air fuel ratio or lambda in the engine in operation directly from the exhaust. For this a
special wide-band oxygen sensor is used to measure the lambda value derived from the oxygen
content (or lack thereof) of the exhaust gases.




9. Tips, Tricks and Troubleshooting

1) An exhaust leak will allow oxygen to enter the exhaust stream and therefore will
measure leaner than the engine is actually running. For correct measurement, airleaks
in the exhaust MUST be prevented under all circumstances.
2) Missing ignitions (where the air-fuel mixture does not ignite) also pump unburned
oxygen into the exhaust and cause the LM-1 to measure lean.
3) The only circumstance where the LM-1 will measure richer than the engine is running
is if the pressure in the exhaust tract is excessive (and the engine is running on the
rich side to begin with).



I'm not trying to be an ass, I just don't like to see misinformation being thrown around.

 

[s8v4o]

So again in the end my guess is the plugs also as stated above. I just think its truly running richer than 10.0:1, that's all.

 

[Tom]

Keep us posted as soon as you now. Good luck!