E85 Results

[BruceH]

First a little background. Motor has forged rods and pistons, 9.5 cr, FRPP 62mm tb, PMAS HPX maf, 80 lb injectors, GT500 fuel pumps, and Comp 127300 cams. Supercharged by a Whipple 2.3 with a 3.5" pulley and Innovators West 10% od balancer.

The baseline comparison is 531/460 rwhp/tq. on 92 pump gas with this pulley. I had originally planned to use a 3.250 pulley that made 553/492 on pump gas but ran out of fuel pump at about 5700 rpms.

The final tune has 21 degrees of timing. I called it quits at this point because the motor is making more hp than I had ever planned for and even with my crappy driving should put me into rollcage territory. My previous best of 11.68 was with the motor making 515.

Here's the end result. We could only pull to 6400 due to fueling. 575/505. This is a gain of 44/45 hp/tq.

 

[danbogart]

Very cool Bruce!!! I just picked up a stock motor to throw in mine while I build up the stroker. Feel like doing some wrenching?

 

[BruceH]

Very cool Bruce!!! I just picked up a stock motor to throw in mine while I build up the stroker. Feel like doing some wrenching?

Sure, send me a pm.

 

[mrmonk7663]

wow nice gains man. What type of dyno did you use?

 

[JeremyH]

wow nice gains man. What type of dyno did you use?

It says it right on the top of the dyno sheet.


What is the before/after timing used, trying to get a feel for how much timing you can add with e85 over 92/93. At this level.

 

[BruceH]

It says it right on the top of the dyno sheet.


What is the before/after timing used, trying to get a feel for how much timing you can add with e85 over 92/93. At this level.

The gas tune had 18 or 18.5. We could of went higher than 21 but I decided to stop there. The e85 base tune I used to get to the shop had 17 degrees and IIRC made around 540-545 with this pulley and a different af. I was impressed with the results and so was my tuner. He's not easily impressed either.

This is the most bang for the buck mod I've done to date. The 80lb. injectors were $450 from corvetteinjectors.com and the tuning cost were all it took. If I want more power all I need is a dual bap or return fuel system but my car is a street car first so I don't see going any further. In fact I might pick up a 3.750 pulley and detune it some.

 

[Genius]

Nice, very nice!
I have the son-laws 67 BB camaro in my shop now,
were dumping the NOS and goin twin turbo on E85
Along with a new short block 9.5 CR

 

[JeremyH]

The gas tune had 18 or 18.5. We could of went higher than 21 but I decided to stop there. The e85 base tune I used to get to the shop had 17 degrees and IIRC made around 540-545 with this pulley and a different af. I was impressed with the results and so was my tuner. He's not easily impressed either.

This is the most bang for the buck mod I've done to date. The 80lb. injectors were $450 from corvetteinjectors.com and the tuning cost were all it took. If I want more power all I need is a dual bap or return fuel system but my car is a street car first so I don't see going any further. In fact I might pick up a 3.750 pulley and detune it some.

Nice! So 4 degrees of timing got you 40-50rwhp, not bad at all.

Im actually doing quite well on my fuel setup that i pieced together for $400. 2 ford gt supercar pumps on the stock hat, single oem fpdm, 40 amp bap, and 62lb injectors. Im around 80% duty cycle at 16psi/655rwhp on 93 pump gas.

I think with just some 80lb inj. I should be able to drop the boost to 14psi on e85, run 3-4 more degrees of timing and still make the 650ish i made at 16psi on pump gas. Should pick up some spool and midrange too as well as torque, I think the car would be faster at the same hp level on e85 at 14psi vs 93 at 16psi.

Something to consider for sure down the road...

 

[Towelly]

I think you would need more than just the 80lb injectors. You would be close to maxing your pump setup. If you were to run dual FPDM's with heavy duty enough wiring and more than stock diameter fuel lines you may have enough pump. If your at 80% duty cycle now even with 80lb injectors I bet you would be nearing 95% DC with your current setup.

Mike Roush knows what he is talking about though, so I'm sure you have spoken to him on the subject.

 

[JeremyH]

I think you would need more than just the 80lb injectors. You would be close to maxing your pump. If you were to run dual FPDM's with heavy duty enough wiring and more than stock diameter fuel lines you may have enough pump. If your at 80% duty cycle now even with 80lb injectors I bet you would be nearing 95% DC with your current setup.

Mike Roush knows what he is talking about though, so I'm sure you have spoken to him on the subject.

I agree around 90-95% duty cyle on e85. But i would run this like 2-3 time a year max, so its not a big a deal to me. I dont want to go too big on the injectors for drivebaility when im still on 93 pump gas which will 99% of the time.

Im not sold on the second fpdm helping that much. I had plans to add one to run a dedicated pump off each fpdm, until I saw where the single one got me no problem and where the stock gt500 systems were maxing out at less. (I made 560rwhp with just dual pumps on the oem single fpdm and no bap. At 85% duty cyle.)

I already have the pump wire/relay relay upgrade, 10awg right off the battery. I have fuel rails too. The stock fuel line will suffice as well.

This is all just talk as I really have no plans to try this anytime soon, just gathering info.

 

[BruceH]

Nice! So 4 degrees of timing got you 40-50rwhp, not bad at all.

Im actually doing quite well on my fuel setup that i pieced together for $400. 2 ford gt supercar pumps on the stock hat, single oem fpdm, 40 amp bap, and 62lb injectors. Im around 80% duty cycle at 16psi/655rwhp on 93 pump gas.

I think with just some 80lb inj. I should be able to drop the boost to 14psi on e85, run 3-4 more degrees of timing and still make the 650ish i made at 16psi on pump gas. Should pick up some spool and midrange too as well as torque, I think the car would be faster at the same hp level on e85 at 14psi vs 93 at 16psi.

Something to consider for sure down the road...

Not quite, Final tune is making 575 so it's more like a 30-35 gain. There was also some tweaking of the air fuel. The base tune was fatter. This e85 tested at 79% ethanol which made for a stoich of 9.9.

In a nutshell I have more power on less boost and the tune isn't on the ragged edge. My tuner did say I should only expect about 4 years out of the injectors if I run e85 all the time. I plan to switch back to gas after a few tanks and only run e85 when the track is open. Around here that's from April to October. I have already noticed harder starting with e85 when the motor is cold.

 

[JeremyH]

Not quite, Final tune is making 575 so it's more like a 30-35 gain. There was also some tweaking of the air fuel. The base tune was fatter. This e85 tested at 79% ethanol which made for a stoich of 9.9.

In a nutshell I have more power on less boost and the tune isn't on the ragged edge. My tuner did say I should only expect about 4 years out of the injectors if I run e85 all the time. I plan to switch back to gas after a few tanks and only run e85 when the track is open. Around here that's from April to October. I have already noticed harder starting with e85 when the motor is cold.

Good info, thanks!

 

[mrmonk7663]

How the he'll I failed to see the dyno sheet the first time is beyond me. Stupid iPhone or stupid me. One or the other lol. Again nice numbers.

 

[Marc s]

Not quite, Final tune is making 575 so it's more like a 30-35 gain. There was also some tweaking of the air fuel. The base tune was fatter. This e85 tested at 79% ethanol which made for a stoich of 9.9.

In a nutshell I have more power on less boost and the tune isn't on the ragged edge. My tuner did say I should only expect about 4 years out of the injectors if I run e85 all the time. I plan to switch back to gas after a few tanks and only run e85 when the track is open. Around here that's from April to October. I have already noticed harder starting with e85 when the motor is cold.

Good gains Bruce. It will be interesting to see what your car will run now. Do you have any plans to raise the boost higher?

I tried to make it to the dyno Friday. I was rear-ended by a Peterbuilt at the I-5 to SR18 on ramp on the way there. The 07 GT500 I just bought was totaled and I was air lifted from the wreck. Just got out of the hopital today.

 

[retfr8flyr]

Good gains Bruce. It will be interesting to see what your car will run now. Do you have any plans to raise the boost higher?

I tried to make it to the dyno Friday. I was rear-ended by a Peterbuilt at the I-5 to SR18 on ramp on the way there. The 07 GT500 I just bought was totaled and I was air lifted from the wreck. Just got out of the hopital today.

Glad you came out of it OK but sorry for your loss of the GT500.


Earl

 

[dysan]

Nice gains. I'm thinking about E85 after I get everything else done that I have to now like a roll bar, built rear and whatnot. I'd probably look into just buying a barrel of it since the closest station that carries it to me is about 35-40 minutes away.

I thought with E85 you could run more timing than that since it roughly equates to something like 104 octane. I know when I run the 110 leaded fuel, Lito set my tune to run 22-23 degrees of timing.

EDIT: Didn't notice on the end of your post that you were 21 degrees of timing, my bad.

 

[VTXFrank]

I tried to make it to the dyno Friday. I was rear-ended by a Peterbuilt at the I-5 to SR18 on ramp on the way there. The 07 GT500 I just bought was totaled and I was air lifted from the wreck. Just got out of the hopital today.

DAMN! Thank God you're alive and able to post! Good to hear you're out of the hospital. I bet you're sore as hell about now though!

@OP, What's the timing advance limit for this setup? 21° of timing right now seems like an engine ready to detonate, but I don't know a whole lot about these engines on boost.

 

[Matt D]

Moved to chit chat for further discussion. Congrats on the new numbers, that is a sick beast

 

[Vapour Trails]

Moved to chit chat for further discussion. Congrats on the new numbers, that is a sick beast

You've got to be kidding. This is chit chat?

 

[stkjock]

Bruce - congrats on the gains - enjoy the power

You've got to be kidding. This is chit chat?

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