e85 upgrade,maybe,maybe not?

[one eyed willy]

I'm debating if i wanna do it....or not. Its becoming more available now days in my parts. I was thinking of doing a 55gal drum at my house. What i need to figure out is what will the actual upgrade consist of and what is compatible.

My current set up, 700rwhp is around 80% FPDC ( i would need to confirm this,been awhile since i data logged it):
gt500 pumps
40amp dual BAP
stock return-less set up
ID1000

I think everything i have is compatible, but on e85 would i have enough pump? would i need to go return style? I think im good on the injectors.

what has to be changed in the tune?

I currently run about 17* timing on the top end, 17PSI on 93 pump. What real gains would i get by going to e85?

 

[JoshK]

You have the same setup as me minus a -8an line with high flow filter from the hat to the rails. I am at 86% duty cycle at 740whp. You will be able to run more timing and will definetly pick up power.

 

[retfr8flyr]

To really take advantage of E85 you should upgrade both your pumps and injectors. I wouldn't run E85 without a return style system and Jeremy was running out of injector, with his 1000's, at 750rwhp. It would cost you a bunch to go E85 with these changes but, like Josh said, you can gain some advantage, with your current setup, by being able to run more timing.

 

[one eyed willy]

FUUUK.....i knew this would cost me more money.....

 

[702GT]

I'm debating if i wanna do it....or not. Its becoming more available now days in my parts. I was thinking of doing a 55gal drum at my house. What i need to figure out is what will the actual upgrade consist of and what is compatible.

My current set up, 700rwhp is around 80% FPDC ( i would need to confirm this,been awhile since i data logged it):
gt500 pumps
40amp dual BAP
stock return-less set up
ID1000

I think everything i have is compatible, but on e85 would i have enough pump? would i need to go return style? I think im good on the injectors.

what has to be changed in the tune?

I currently run about 17* timing on the top end, 17PSI on 93 pump. What real gains would i get by going to e85?

Alot. You're basicly going from 93 octane to 105 octane. You'll use about 30% more E-85 to get the same combustion energy from normal fuel. So you'll need to be able to supply that extra corn. On top of the octane allowing you to add additional timing in the tune, ethanol will cool the combustion process significantly, allowing for a better burn. The more boost you're on, the bigger the gains. At your level of boost, the gains will be significant. 20-22 degrees of timing won't be out of the question, but it will all depend on when the setup refuses to make more power as timing is added.

The return/returnless style of fuel system is personal choice. Return is ultimately the safest way to deliver fuel. My personal opinion for a street car, when you start dabbling around 800whp, you should give a return setup some serious thought. If you're a track car or competitive, return should be mandatory. That's how I feel about that.

From what I see for the info you've provided, you're going to need more pump if you're already at 80% DC on a big BAP. S&H has been outstanding working with me on the last couple fuel kits I've done for friends. The Fore fuel hat I did for a '03 cobra is very clean, and can be run on a return or returnless configuration. He has his running returnless on a 625whp cobra, but all he has to do is run a 2nd line for return, add a regulator and a controller and he's good for return.

 

[PNR Welding]

I am using gt500 pumps, competition bap sd80s, cpe rails and stock lines from firewall back. I'm at 75% dc at 14psi running 9.73 @140mph.
Never been Dynoed with new turbo/kit nor do I care too. I'm a ET and mph guy.

 

[JoshK]

If you add a $100 fuel line to your setup you will have the exact same setup as mine. I can post a screenshot of a log showing duty cycle and boost if you would like.

I ran frpp 80 lb injectors last year at 20lbs of boost. Only switched to the id1000s because I got them for a steal

Timing is in the 22-24* range iirc

Edit: I did trap 135mph on my first trip to the track. 60 FTS were terrible(bad suspension setup and tires)

 

[retfr8flyr]

Talk to Jeremy, he can fix you up with whatever you need in the fuel department. You can stay with a returnless system but at the levels you are talking about I just would prefer a return style setup and if you are going to upgrade everything anyway, it wouldn't really cost much more to go return style.

 

[JoshK]

I would really like to upgrade mine to return style, just quite a bit of $. Some day I am sure I will make the switch.

 

[TexasBlownV8]

I'm right there at that same transition, too. Going return would be pretty simple, just the regulator and line, and some minor plumbing (fuel fat is already set up for the return).

 

[lito]

No need to go return.

Do it.

 

[BruceH]

Paul,

I've been up to 699rwhp uncorrected on e85 with gt500 pumps, 970cc Bosch injectors, and a single 40a bap. Returnless and stock lines. Duty cycle was 86% and the D1 was pushing 19psi. I wonder how much hp the supercharger was taking to turn at that level?

Forget the 30% figure. It's about right with a stock motor that can't take advantage of e85 but it's totally wrong for a higher compression or forced induction motor. I usually see about 18% more fuel use with forced induction and e85. The heavier you are on the pedal the more you will get out of the fuel, it loves cylinder pressure.

I'd guess you will gain an easy 50-75rwhp without adding spark advance. All it will take is to fill up with it and change the tune to find out. Since you have Advantage you don't even have to buy a new tune. Just change the stoich and a few other things for easier starting to get a base tune.

What are you waiting for? You can always go back to gas with a tune change. You can also set the tune parameters to allow for more trim just in case you get caught with a mixed tank. Can't boost like that but can drive safely to the next station.

Like Lito said do it!

 

[JoshK]

No need to go return.

Do it.

 

[one eyed willy]

Sounds like I'm going to try it out!

I appreciate all the info! Just got to work out the details on the tune!

 

[Bobby]

Jeremy ran out of injector because he set his fuel pressure at 40psi. Thats the only reason.

 

[JoshK]

But wouldn't that only take a minute at most to fix or change?

 

[BruceH]

But wouldn't that only take a minute at most to fix or change?

It would with a returnless setup. Just change the commanded pressure drop for the returnless fuel pump parameter.

How hard is it to change the regulator psi?

 

[JoshK]

Exactly, return or return less it only takes a minute to change base pressure. I thought this from the moment Jeremy posted his results and said he was out of injector. If the Bosch 1000cc injectors are in fact the same as id1000s then why would he have fun out of injector? His is only slightly higher than I was with frpp 80s

 

[deebo05]

Id says 900 rwhp with the 1000's and e85. I was able to get 937 rwhp and 972 ftlbs out of them. tried to get more out of them, but ran out of turbo at 6k

I just cranked the base pressure to 65 psi. and let them go to work. they perform better with the higher pressure.

On a return style I just changed the stoich, added timing, added fuel to startup tables, good to go. As long as the air model is correct, its a easy transition.

it really helped with iat's vs c-16.

 

[Bobby]

They are 1000cc. And he said his tuner would have had to go redo his tune. If it were me and i was paying i would have had him redo the tune and cranked up the base pressure. After all that is what he was paying him for. But i cant really say because i want there and dont know their relationship or what they had planned out the entire time.

Look on injector dynamics website. They say on there they are bosch injectors and they are teamed up with bosh. I remember a wile back them saying they werent bosch injectors and now they say they are. I guess now that people are finding out they are they had to change a few things.