Eibach Multi Pro R2

B2B

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In 2011 the Rates were lowered because the overall weight of the car was decreased. A majority of the weight was dropped in the front end and so the rates were changed to accommodate that.

Steve,

I've looked at spec. from several sources and they all show the 2011+ Mustang to be heavier than previous years. Edmunds is showing 2010 Mustang GT Premium w/ 5 speeds to be 3401 lb, and 2011 GT Premium w/ 6 speeds to be 3605 lb.

I'm sure the actual weight is going to vary depending on options, but from everything I've seen, 2011+ Mustangs are NOT lighter than previous years S197s. So whoever you are talking to at Eibach is probably still making up facts as he goes.

Francis
 

steve13gt

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^ That was part of my reply to eibach, now they are closed for thanksgiving so I have to wait until Monday

from 2010 to 2011, the only change was going from a 4.6 5 speed, to a 5.0 6 speed. According to Ford, the car actually went from 3,480 LBS ( 2010 manual couple 4.6) to 3,605 LBS (2011 manual couple 5.0) and was even lighter before at 3,352(2009 manual coupe 4.6)"
 

steve13gt

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Just an idea, but the 05-2010 kit was 350lb main spring and a 150 tender spring. Wouldn't that almost be like a 250 spring on average? And 250 in the rear.

And now it's 225 front and 250 rear


According to this calculator, its actually a final rate of 105, but that can't be right http://www.stockcarproducts.com/pstech7.htm

Sent from my iPhone 5
 
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Department Of Boost

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Just an idea, but the 05-2010 kit was 350lb main spring and a 150 tender spring. Wouldn't that almost be like a 250 spring on average? And 250 in the rear.

And now it's 225 front and 250 rear


According to this calculator, its actually a final rate of 105, but that can't be right http://www.stockcarproducts.com/pstech7.htm

Sent from my iPhone 5

That doesn't take into account how spring rate works.

Mine were set up with 350# front main springs and the "tender" that came with them (150# using your data, I didn't pay a lot of attention). The SECOND the tires start touching the ground the 150# "tender" starts collapsing. And before the car is at ride height the 150# tender is completely collapsed and effectively a spacer. In this case the "tender" spring has no bearing on the effective or working spring rate of the main spring.

I liked the 350/250 spring combo a lot. It rode fantastic on the street. In fact, it rode nicer than effectively the exact same car (a friends) that had Steeda Sports (225/175 I think) and Koni STR's (orange). A LOT better.

After taking the car to the track I wanted more spring rate. I'm now running 425/375's and it still rides pretty damn nice for something with so much rate. I could daily drive it and live with it.

Single tube dampers (Eibach R2's for example) will ride much better over sharp edge bumps because of the valve design. The are capable of "blowing off" a lot more fluid under high shaft speed situations than twin tube dampers are. This is the main reason you can get away with a lot more rate running a single tube damper and still have a good ride.
 

steve13gt

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So 100% everyone is in agreement that the front should definitely have a higher spring rate? If so I may swap my springs (front to back) to give me 250 front and 225 rear. Or I can get eibach to send me 350/250 but since I don't have the tender spring I wonder if that might be too much rate for the front, and cause me to understeer.

I am still lost as to why eibach would change something that works.

Btw, are you still running the stock 150 tender with those 425 fronts?

P.S. Is your car a shelby? Just because I'd imagine they are more nose heavy requiring more front rate
 
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Department Of Boost

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So 100% everyone is in agreement that the front should definitely have a higher spring rate? If so I may swap my springs (front to back) to give me 250 front and 225 rear. Or I can get eibach to send me 350/250 but since I don't have the tender spring I wonder if that might be too much rate for the front, and cause me to understeer.
The "tender" spring doesn't effect under/oversteer AT ALL. It's a fancy spacer.

I am still lost as to why eibach would change something that works.
Welcome to the wonderful world of suspensions. I've seen a lot worse than this cock up by Eibach over the years.

Btw, are you still running the stock 150 tender with those 425 fronts?
You mean the 150# "spacers"? Yes.

P.S. Is your car a shelby? Just because I'd imagine they are more nose heavy requiring more front rate
Nope, it's a GT. And even with the blower it's probably lighter than your car is. My battery is in the trunk, I have no A/C, etc, etc, etc.
 

steve13gt

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So there is no reason why the front should be lighter than the rear then?

I'll have to see what Eibach says monday. Maybe I will ask for 350/250

Should I also switch to tender springs instead of helpers? I think I need the older style bump stops to, as mine are massive and limit my suspension travel
 
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Department Of Boost

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So there is no reason why the front should be lighter than the rear then?

I'll have to see what Eibach says monday. Maybe I will ask for 350/250

I have yet to see a S197 performance setup where the front springs were not a higher rate than the rear.
 

B2B

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^ I concur. With a F/R weight distribution of 54/46, there is no reason to justify a lighter spring in the front than in the rear.
 

modernbeat

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Have you set up roadrace/track day or street setups with helper, dual spring or triple spring setups?

Yes.

Except the triples. Those were all competition cars, though the rally car was street legal and did run license plates, as required by their rules.
 

steve13gt

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^ I concur. With a F/R weight distribution of 54/46, there is no reason to justify a lighter spring in the front than in the rear.

Depending on suspension geometry, spring rate =/= wheel rate.

So in some applications, even though they are nose heavy, could need a higher rear spring rate.

For what I've read, that doesn't look to be the case for the mustang though.
 

DILYSI Dave

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And what would the "best" be?

Oh, there it is!

DSC_0704-M.jpg


Seriously. Best is different for each application. Although some components will never be "best" based on where they stack up against competitive components.

It's missing a knob. :)

EDIT - Damn - it's actually missing two knobs.
 
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foolio2k4

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i have no problems with my R2s....

only coilovers i would even consider going with is
eibach r2
kw v3
fortune auto dreadnoughts
motons
jrz
 

B2B

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Ha HA good joke. :naughty1:

No joke. The bulk of Steve's frustration is not getting technical support from someone who knows what they are talking about. I personally found Sam to be knowledgeable and always spot on with his suggestions.

Francis
 

BlackMamba03

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i have no problems with my R2s....

only coilovers i would even consider going with is
eibach r2
kw v3
fortune auto dreadnoughts
motons
jrz

I actually emailed JRZ the other day to see if they have anything in the works for the 2011+ GT's. Haven't heard back yet but I know Paul Brown ran a JRZ set up on his Boss 302S so I'd think there'd be a few options.
 

steve13gt

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No joke. The bulk of Steve's frustration is not getting technical support from someone who knows what they are talking about. I personally found Sam to be knowledgeable and always spot on with his suggestions.

Francis

The bulk of it, yes. Still not sure why eibach has decided to overlook a radial/thrust bearing. And sell a spring rate that is completely backwards from everyone else


Sent from my iPhone 5
 

SoundGuyDave

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The bulk of it, yes. Still not sure why eibach has decided to overlook a radial/thrust bearing. And sell a spring rate that is completely backwards from everyone else


Sent from my iPhone 5

The mistake you're making is to ASSUME that there was a valid, viable reason behind the final form of the kit. It's also very easy to see a host of small changes (from personnel moving around, coming/going, simple error, etc.) that stack up to be a major issue. If you think "well, that just CAN'T happen," realize that Earls has been selling stainless braided brake hose kits for the S197 for going on a decade now, with the brackets installed backwards from the factory...

Radial/thrust bearing: It's entirely possible that they initially designed the CC plates to work with the stock strut mount (radial bearing) and the stock replacement struts. Now, they do a coilover kit, and the "engineer" putting it together goes to the shelf, grabs a CC plate, and calls it good. OR somebody in accounting or marketing decides that they need to hit a particular price point, and redesigning a "perfectly good" CC plate would be the go/no-go decision on production of the part.

Spring rates: Some yahoo, who may have come from the BMW camp, looks at the weight numbers after reading on the interwebz that the "new" chassis is lighter, and decides that a rate change is needed. Remebering that the M3 runs heavier springs in the rear, he just swaps them around and calls it good. OR the GED-less people packaging the kits from parts bins just grabbed the wrong stuff... Then, the tech support genius looks at the catalog and/or engineering parts list, and says "Yup, you've got the right stuff."

Understand, I'm not saying that the above IS what happened, I'm saying it COULD BE what happened. This may be a case of having a niche product built to a competitive price point. Think about it for a moment: double-adjustable monotube dampers with a remote reservoir, "USA made," and they're cheaper (by more than a few hundred!) than my AST single-adjustable non-remotes... OR to put it a different way: Your whole kit cost less (at list price!) than the rear dampers on the FR500S... The problem with niche products is that the volume is comparatively low. I would be willing to bet that Koni has sold more sets of Sport dampers for the S197 in one year, than Moton, AST, Eibach, and JRZ combined have sold over the last eight. To keep costs down to compete (price point) with the Chinese junk coming over, that means something has to give. Usually, that means either component quality, or R&D in some form. I did an install on a HIGH-END set of dampers (brand-name redacted!) and the spacers for the rear Heim joint were a full 1/4" wider than the shock bracket on the axle... Oops. It happens. High-volume parts are generally simple, bolt-on, with no issues. Niche parts usually need a bit of fiddling to get them 100% right.
 

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