Fuck this car.

[marcspaz]

Geeesh! How many damn weeks - now months - does it take for a professional engine building shop to do an engineering assessment on their damaged components with their suppliers and come up with a reasonable fix and resolution that best meets the needs of all those involved???? Come on guys! IMHO, the only "Warranty" worth a damn is when the buyer can take the failed component to a certified 'independent' shop that can't be swayed by anyone involved to make an objective engineering assessment. Their arbitration ruling is then carried out by those found at fault or no fault.

Plus-1

Agreed 100%...

 

[white05gt]

I agree too and the length of time it has taken is ridiculous.

 

[BruceH]

Here are the photos of the pistons we took the day it was pulled. We cleaned the piston tops to check for any pitting that would show detonation. We did not see anything noteworthy. These are only the driver's side pistons, as the passenger side was perfect.

Here are the two fragments found in the oil pan.

So what if you had pulled the head for some other reason (no catastophic failure) and found the rub marks on the cylinder walls? Would that in and of itself be enough reason to contact Livernois and if so would they of rebored and honed? Or are those normal wear marks? Livernois hasn't addressed that one yet.

 

[marcspaz]

those are no where near normal...

 

[05stroker]

Thread started 8-22 , I would be pissed !

Livernois , someone needs to step up with an answer !
Someone at least needs to point the finger . As of now its not the tuners fault or the builder or the parts supplier , just the poor soul that bought the parts and payed good money to all three for blown motor ! Fact is it is someones fault . Im sure if this is what he wanted he would have called MMR .

 

[SD07GT]

those are no where near normal...

+1 go to post # 185 (all eight cylinders was damaged )

 

[V8SRGR8]

So they say.

 

[BruceH]

V8SRGRT,
Part of what you paid for is good customer service. The other part is top notch machine work. IMO you've been let down on both accounts.

 

[retfr8flyr]

My trashed MMR block with Manley pistons looked just like that on both sides from incorrect piston to wall clearance.


Earl

 

[mike@livernois]

Just getting back in after being out a couple of days. Let me see if I can catch up on some of this.

Thanks
Mike

 

[mike@livernois]

So what did Livernois say about all those marks on the cylinder walls? That can't be considered acceptable, can it? The pictures seem to show an eneven gap in the cylinder to piston clearance. Is that how it looked in person too?

BTW thanks for laying everything out about your experience. The whole thing stinks.

The marks on the cylinder walls are definitely not normal at all. They are the results of the broken and melted pieces of piston stuck between the piston and cylinder wall and traveling back up and down the bore. This is where the vertical grooves came from.

The difference in piston to wall throughout the entire engine was .0004. This was accounting for coating that scuffed off and any damage to the cylinder walls themselves. The normal tolerance is +/- .0001 so after accounting for the wear the .0004 total was not to far off but more importantly it was not enough to cause any damage by itself. When adding the coating difference back in the number goes down to .0002.

 

[mike@livernois]

At this point Livernois has submitted its findings and assessment of damage back to the customer as well as posted them in this thread after the customer had okay'd it. The findings again were not meant to be stated as fact. We based them on our experience in looking at engine failures and what we had to go off of in front of us.

We then submitted the piston and rings to Mahle for their analysis. Mahle came back with their analysis which we submitted to the customer.

At that point after getting back from Mahle their results we had no further testing or analysis to do. I spoke with the customer this past Thursday and informed him that I would go through and do my best to try come up with agreement that we could make worth for both of us. It seems apparent that both Mahle and the tuner are not going to be at all further involved or contribute in any way. So Livernois is going to try and work out something with the customer that is agreeable for both remaining parties.

While the testing and results we show on our side do not qualify for warranty coverage (otherwise this would be an open and shut case) we still want to do whatever we can to work with the customer and come up with something to help him in whatever way we can. I do think from our discussions we can indeed do that. As of last we spoke on this past Thursday I think we can come to a solution that works for both parties and gets this handled once and for all so that we can get the customer some resolution.

Sorry for the delay again, I was the one that last spoke with the customer on Thursday of last week so being out until today means that nothing would have happened until my return.

Thanks
Mike

 

[akula52]

Professional

Mike, You are a true professional, IMHO!

 

[marcspaz]

...It seems apparent that both Mahle and the tuner are not going to be at all further involved or contribute in any way...

That's bullshit. I am standing on the shop floor right now. The shop owner has contributed dozens of hours of labor for free. And will continue to do so to help his customer. Just because he doesn't want to eat the entire cost of a blown motor that many people believe was bad from your shop, that doesn't imply the owner isn't doing anything else to help.

You have big balls speaking for Mahle or Excessive, esp since you have zero input on what either company do...


Plus, Josh has been waiting for an itemized list to justify the $1700 labor charge for the repair, but you still haven't sent it. Why is that? That is all he is asking for, mostly because it seems WAY to high a rate...

 

[andyman]

That's bullshit. I am standing on the shop floor right now. The shop owner has contributed dozens of hours of labor for free. And will continue to do so to help his customer. Just because he doesn't want to eat the entire cost of a blown motor that many people believe was bad from your shop, that doesn't imply the owner isn't doing anything else to help.

You have big balls speaking for Mahle or Excessive, esp since you have zero input on what either company do...


Plus, Josh has been waiting for an itemized list to justify the $1700 labor charge for the repair, but you still haven't sent it. Why is that? That is all he is asking for, mostly because it seems WAY to high a rate...

Have you called Livernois yet?

 

[SD07GT]

That's bullshit. I am standing on the shop floor right now. The shop owner has contributed dozens of hours of labor for free. And will continue to do so to help his customer. Just because he doesn't want to eat the entire cost of a blown motor that many people believe was bad from your shop, that doesn't imply the owner isn't doing anything else to help.

You have big balls speaking for Mahle or Excessive, esp since you have zero input on what either company do...


Plus, Josh has been waiting for an itemized list to justify the $1700 labor charge for the repair, but you still haven't sent it. Why is that? That is all he is asking for, mostly because it seems WAY to high a rate...

Please go back to post # 185 once again all 8 clynders had damage or ring damag .... Josh says thats bullshit .

So who is tlling the truth and who is bullshitting ?

 

[EXC06GT]

At this point Livernois has submitted its findings and assessment of damage back to the customer as well as posted them in this thread after the customer had okay'd it. The findings again were not meant to be stated as fact. We based them on our experience in looking at engine failures and what we had to go off of in front of us.

We then submitted the piston and rings to Mahle for their analysis. Mahle came back with their analysis which we submitted to the customer.

At that point after getting back from Mahle their results we had no further testing or analysis to do. I spoke with the customer this past Thursday and informed him that I would go through and do my best to try come up with agreement that we could make worth for both of us. It seems apparent that both Mahle and the tuner are not going to be at all further involved or contribute in any way. So Livernois is going to try and work out something with the customer that is agreeable for both remaining parties.

While the testing and results we show on our side do not qualify for warranty coverage (otherwise this would be an open and shut case) we still want to do whatever we can to work with the customer and come up with something to help him in whatever way we can. I do think from our discussions we can indeed do that. As of last we spoke on this past Thursday I think we can come to a solution that works for both parties and gets this handled once and for all so that we can get the customer some resolution.

Sorry for the delay again, I was the one that last spoke with the customer on Thursday of last week so being out until today means that nothing would have happened until my return.

Thanks
Mike

Mike, we still have not received a itemized list of what the labor cost and parts are supposed to be. Josh asked for this a couple of weeks ago.

 

[EXC06GT]

"It seems apparent that both Mahle and the tuner are not going to be at all further involved or contribute in any way."

Mike, please tell us how you know we are not helping josh out in this matter??????

 

[danbogart]

I just bought a Livernois Stroker. Can someone point me in the direction of a thread that actually makes me feel warm and tingly about my purchase? Thanks.

 

[V8SRGR8]

Please go back to post # 185 once again all 8 clynders had damage or ring damag .... Josh says thats bullshit .

So who is tlling the truth and who is bullshitting ?

I said that because we saw perfect compression and no marks on the passenger side bank, while all four on the driver's side had marks on the walls and varying compression. Being that we were not allowed to disassemble the motor in any way, and they only sent me a photo of one damaged piston and one half of one, and one full set of my rings, I can only take their word for it. So there you go. Get mad at me if you want, but if you were in my position, you'd see why I feel the way I do.

That being said, I just got an email from Mike (Thanks, Mike). Mike, as stated before I still want an itemized invoice for the charges, and not just a number.

Thanks,

Josh