Fuck this car.

[marcspaz]

Compression is compression. It doesn't matter how you get the 12.5:1, it's still 12.5:1.

 

[KIM_05_GT]

good info..http://www.kb-silvolite.com/article.php?action=read&A_id=57

 

[marcspaz]

good info..http://www.kb-silvolite.com/article.php?action=read&A_id=57

That is good...

 

[ChevyKiller]

umm...we are talking about boosted engines.

Exactly - we are talking about a guy making over 600 rwhp and a ton of boost through a 9.7:1 4.6 motor on pump gas which is foolish IMO.

9.7:1 - 4.6 3V - personally, I would not run over 8-10 lbs of boost MAX on pump gas - ever. BOOST RAISES COMPRESSION and you through 20 lbs of boost at a 9.7:1 motor and you are UP THERE, believe me.

I don't care what anyone says or what articles anyone posts - you can run your car at 50 lbs of boost on pump gas if you want to but a 9.7:1 motor with 18+ pounds of boost on pump gas is STUPID, anyway you slice it.

Goes back to What I have said for a long time - I just don't see how some guys can put $20,000+ into their car and then straight out refuse to spend an extra $100 on gas. I'll never get it.

So many guys looking at all the shop claims over the past five years of "we did this on the stock motor", "we made that through the stock trans", "we ran this through the stock motor and 18 lbs of boost", etc, etc, etc...

It's all BS you guys - yeah, they may have did it ONCE but they NEVER are honest with how many times the car broke or blew up, or a new motor was put in.

My signature is no joke - and I will bet the farm anyone out there who has run a 9 sec pass in a 3V will tell you the same thing and sure as shit won't say they put in a shortblock and a FI kit, and 'presto' they had a monster car. If they do - they are lying...period.

Even 600 rwhp is a HANDFUL to deal with to hook, make streetable, etc. The more power you put down, the more can of worms opens up with other shit. You get your airflow down, and your electrical bites you, you get the electrical worked out, and the suspension bites you - you get the suspension worked out, and overheating bites you, etc, etc.

It is a painful process that is also an exciting and fun process in an uncanny way...lol

Do you think you know exactly how Justin Burcham, Vinny Barber, and anyone else made/makes ridiculous power through a 3V - I can just about garuntee you that you don't cause some stuff isn't shared and it's just the way it is. Especially stuff that costs you tens of thousands of dollars to learn.

Unless you are willing to accept the fact that big power on a modular is going to cost BIG MONEY and there is no way to 'do it on a budget' or 'get by' - you are in for a rude awakening...period.

Oh - and it is NEVER going to be perfect and grant you all of your dreams the first time. You are going to have to break shit during your build just to figure out your build and if you can't accept that - don't do it.



Peace

 

[V8SRGR8]

This chart still does not explain why even at a full point of compression lower, the Cobra motor lives on pump @ 20+psi, and the Livernois 298 stroker falls apart @ 18 (or lower). According to the chart, both should be on race fuel. It still seems there is an inherent weakness here. I'm NOT the only one who's had this problem.

So Livernois markets this particular 9.7:1 engine for centri blowers. If you use that chart, this thing should be on race fuel @ 7psi. Seems a little rediculous on a motor that would make what a stock motor (with blower) is capable of on pump gas with no issues.

 

[Charlie Sheen]

Fuck this car

Or this one...



Sorry, couldn't resist...

 

[US-1]

Compression is compression. It doesn't matter how you get the 12.5:1, it's still 12.5:1.

good info..http://www.kb-silvolite.com/article.php?action=read&A_id=57

So now you see Marc. 12.5:1 is not always 12.5:1.

 

[ChevyKiller]

This chart still does not explain why even at a full point of compression lower, the Cobra motor lives on pump @ 20+psi, and the Livernois 298 stroker falls apart @ 18 (or lower). According to the chart, both should be on race fuel. It still seems there is an inherent weakness here. I'm NOT the only one who's had this problem.

So Livernois markets this particular 9.7:1 engine for centri blowers. If you use that chart, this thing should be on race fuel @ 7psi. Seems a little rediculous on a motor that would make what a stock motor (with blower) is capable of on pump gas with no issues.

I'm not defending Livernois or anyone. Unless I had your motor in front of me, there is no way I could give a realistic 'opinion' without being full of shit. (that goes for everyone BTW)

I'm not saying you had detonation or even that pump gas had anything to do with your mishap - what I am saying is you should not have been running pump gas on a 9.7:1 3V motor with that boost at power level...period.

Not even taking in account the vast possibilities of additives and 'bad batch' scenarios of pump gas, but let's just focus on one simple aspect of pump gas - IT'S NOT CONSISTENT. Forget everything else - simply for that reason alone it is foolish to tune a high HP car on it IMO. ANY detonation is BAD detonation and the more power and boost in the equation, the more DEADLY miniscule amounts of detonation can be. On just that reason alone - there is enough of an argument to not use pump gas with big boost levels, never minding the many other obvious reasons of octane levels.

A COBRA MOTOR is an accurate statement - certainly not 'THE' Cobra Motor cause I'll tell you from first hand experience - I have seen stock cobra motors take 750 rwhp for a year with no issues and I have seen others take a shit at 500 rwhp. All motors are not created equal - even at the factory level. I've seen a cobra block split in two on a 600 rwhp pass, etc, etc, etc.

I'm not trying to be an ass to you at all - in fact - I am just trying to give you some insight based on some first hand 'spend a fortune' and 'break everything' experience factor...lol

The question is "why pump gas" - all that money on your car - why even CHANCE a bad batch of gas or leave any inconsistency options on the table?

That is my point. I have not put pump gas in my car for over 2 years and never will. 100K+ in my car and I won't put $100 bucks worth of gas?... no way.

I'm sorry but your tuner should not have been tuning your car for that much power and boost on pump gas. I'm not saying it caused your motor to fail - I don't know what did - could have been a POS Livernois shortblock - who knows - but I would have never tried that much power and boost on straight pump gas - no way, Jose' - but that's just me.

 

[Ken3030]

I'm not defending Livernois or anyone. Unless I had your motor in front of me, there is no way I could give a realistic 'opinion' without being full of shit. (that goes for everyone BTW)

I'm not saying you had detonation or even that pump gas had anything to do with your mishap - what I am saying is you should not have been running pump gas on a 9.7:1 3V motor with that boost at power level...period.

Not even taking in account the vast possibilities of additives and 'bad batch' scenarios of pump gas, but let's just focus on one simple aspect of pump gas - IT'S NOT CONSISTENT. Forget everything else - simply for that reason alone it is foolish to tune a high HP car on it IMO. ANY detonation is BAD detonation and the more power and boost in the equation, the more DEADLY miniscule amounts of detonation can be. On just that reason alone - there is enough of an argument to not use pump gas with big boost levels, never minding the many other obvious reasons of octane levels.

A COBRA MOTOR is an accurate statement - certainly not 'THE' Cobra Motor cause I'll tell you from first hand experience - I have seen stock cobra motors take 750 rwhp for a year with no issues and I have seen others take a shit at 500 rwhp. All motors are not created equal - even at the factory level. I've seen a cobra block split in two on a 600 rwhp pass, etc, etc, etc.

I'm not trying to be an ass to you at all - in fact - I am just trying to give you some insight based on some first hand 'spend a fortune' and 'break everything' experience factor...lol

The question is "why pump gas" - all that money on your car - why even CHANCE a bad batch of gas or leave any inconsistency options on the table?

That is my point. I have not put pump gas in my car for over 2 years and never will. 100K+ in my car and I won't put $100 bucks worth of gas?... no way.

I'm sorry but your tuner should not have been tuning your car for that much power and boost on pump gas. I'm not saying it caused your motor to fail - I don't know what did - could have been a POS Livernois shortblock - who knows - but I would have never tried that much power and boost on straight pump gas - no way, Jose' - but that's just me.

AMEN!!

 

[V8SRGR8]

And now the pile on starts. Yay for the internet.

You guys are right.

This was his first time ever tuning a car with high boost on pump gas.

I'm so glad I have you guys here to help them make a decision whether or not to honor the warranty on this $5000, "1000hp" motor.

 

[Go-fast]

There not going to warranty it anyway. Them saying they have a "warranty" just makes u feel better when u buy it. At the end of the day they are always gunna blaim the installer/tuner. It don't matter if the installer had tuned a million cars and never had any failures it would be his fault.

 

[lostsoul]

And now the pile on starts. Yay for the internet.

You guys are right.

This was his first time ever tuning a car with high boost on pump gas.

I'm so glad I have you guys here to help them make a decision whether or not to honor the warranty on this $5000, "1000hp" motor.

ahhhh.. don't let them get you ya. 5 years ago he was trying to push 15psi though his vortech on a stock block. hahah

matter of fact I started to mod much more ever since I met him(and break stuff). Out of the 50 motors he broke I dont think he blamed his tuner once. hahah Until the verdict comes out(if it does), we will just have to see. I think many of us have seen PFM and had to take the hit, as stated from the post above. Hopefully, you wont have too and someone will own up.

 

[EagleStroker]

Performance part warranty's in most cases are a crock, period. Very few companies stand behind them.

 

[mike@livernois]

Just to follow up, we have sent the photos and information that pertain to the damaged engine to the customer. We went through and assessed the engine based on what we had in front of us. We took pictures and sent everything to the customer for review. Currently, we are waiting to hear back from the customer so that we can further proceed with the next steps.

If the customer would like us to post the pictures and info that we sent him, we have no issue posting that up here. Currently, while we try to handle this and come to a resolution with the customer we are not going to post anything publicly unless the customer approves first to do so.

Thanks
Mike

 

[TorchedGT]

a very close friend of mine that tunes mustangs told me that between SCT software he tunes with and Ford's PCM its very possible to tune per cylinder. it takes extra sensors and pretty solid idea of what the hell ya doin but none the less its very possible.

 

[klaw]

............ we are not going to post anything publicly unless the customer approves first to do so.

OP???????

 

[mike@livernois]

OP???????

Correct, the original poster who owns the car. We have no issue posting the info, not a problem on our side but since we are working with the customer right now to try and come to a resolution we just wanted to leave it up to him if he wanted that information out there. There is nothing at all secret about it or anything but we are trying to handle it directly with the customer so its up to him what he wants us to do. If he wants us to post it up here than that is fine, if he does not want us to than we will abide by his decision. Whatever works best for him.

Thanks
Mike

 

[ZmanM3]

Mark.... on all of their websites, VP, Sunoco, and Mobile do not recommend race fuel until 12.5:1. Sunoco goes as far as to say 98 oct pump gas is good to 12.5:1 (timing and tune providing). VP specificly says C10 is good to 14.5:1 and it is only 96 Oct, SR1 is only 91 Oct and it is good to 10.0:1.

Not sure where you read what you did, but it contradicts what the fuel makers are saying. Where did you get your info?

umm...we are talking about boosted engines.

What Kim said. I believe that upping the boost with a T/C or S/C is the equivelant of upping the compression. That is why motors made for Blower applacation have lower compression rations.

 

[klaw]

Correct, the original poster who owns the car. We have no issue posting the info, not a problem on our side but since we are working with the customer right now to try and come to a resolution we just wanted to leave it up to him if he wanted that information out there. There is nothing at all secret about it or anything but we are trying to handle it directly with the customer so its up to him what he wants us to do. If he wants us to post it up here than that is fine, if he does not want us to than we will abide by his decision. Whatever works best for him.

Thanks
Mike

Thanks Mike - I was just asking the OP/owner to respond to your post.

 

[ZmanM3]

good info..http://www.kb-silvolite.com/article.php?action=read&A_id=57

I should have kept reading before I made the last post, but this is what I was getting at.