Gear whine update

[thump_rrr]

I've had 5 sets of gears + the originals in this car so far.
I have had 3 different carriers also including an 04 Cobra carrier and now a tru-trac.
I still cannot get a quiet set of 4.10's.
The first set of 4.10's were frpp motives that were put in and removed 3 times in an attempt to quiet them down.
The second set of 4.10's were whisper quiet for the year that they lasted till I shattered the pinion gear.
These were all done by a Ford mechanic at a dealership who's only job is gears and transmissions.
I then went back to my old 3.55's with a Cobra carrier but they were installed by a moron since I had no time to go see the guy I usually deal with.
The car was undriveable so I purchased a new set of FRPP 4.10(M) and a tru-track and had them installed by the same guy I usually dealt with.
They are now 2 years old and are getting quite annoying again.

I would like to pull the ring gear and check the runout over the winter and then make my decision on if I want to go with a 9" rear end which will probably be the case.

 

[Mustang30212]

I don't have a picture, but if you lay the ring gear teath DOWN and run file across the flat back side of the gear where the ring gear bolt holes are....that's the area.

I've seen little burrs shards of metal around the edges of these holes from the drilling/tapping process as well as aforementioned phosphorus. If this area isn't perfectly flat, it won't fit flush against the diffential.

RH

 

[kevinatfms]

Not trying to come across like a smart a$$, but do you really think that a mechanic that does this for a living (has done this job hundreds of times) does not know this or missed it?.... or missed 3 time on the same car with 2 different sets of gears??
I really don't think so.

ok jackass, i work for ford, you really f-ing think i would post that and not have a reason for it, read the entire damn thing, try it, then tell me i was right in the first place....
once you have learned then you might wanna listen, howling/gear whine comes from your pinion depth and not your backlash

 

[ixtlan]

Throttle back Kev.
Pinion depth can cause whine.
But so can runout because it can affect the pinion depth readings.
Also the wobble how ever minor can cause the moan or whine as it is.
F&S stated the pattern is center center so depth may not be the problem.
Process of elimination comes into play now.
Ford put some dampers on the axle also. Why really has never been explained by anyone. One guy I know had a whine and didnt have the dampners. The dealer installed them and it still whined but at a different pitch.
I dont know if the problem ever got resolved.
It could be a bearing that ends up being a whine.
Sound travels through solids and sometimes sounds like it is in one place and turns out the problem is somewhere else.
One step at a time.

 

[F&S Stangs]

ok jackass, i work for ford, you really f-ing think i would post that and not have a reason for it, read the entire damn thing, try it, then tell me i was right in the first place....
once you have learned then you might wanna listen, howling/gear whine comes from your pinion depth and not your backlash

Grow up. Name calling on a public forum is for kids.

 

[Hooty]

but do you really think that a mechanic that does this for a living (has done this job hundreds of times) does not know this or missed it?.... or missed 3 time on the same car with 2 different sets of gears??
I really don't think so.

 

[Konablue10Gt]

I myself have installed hundereds of gear sets and can tell you first hand that Backlash can affect gear whine. I also believe that the newer Ford gear sets not the motives are noisier than the older style gears. The newer style has the ring gear backcut I am assuming for weight savings. The newer style gears are manufactued by a different process know as the Face Hobb process. This is different from Face milling and there are different set up proceedures for them. Please note the link from the Dana corp for them. http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5717.pdf

I have had experiences where the gears were set up perfect according to the gear pattern and pinion depth and they still whined. For what ever reason it seems to be Ford racing 4.10's that do it the worst.

Another side note on that, I owned a 2008 Gt with 3.31's that whined on deaccel. The car had 15 miles on it when I bought it...and my 2010 GT with factory 3.73's whined brand new. I removed the axle weights off of it and the noise was louder.

One more thing, I dont know if this means anything but Ford switched to using 75W-140 gear oil insead of 75W-90. Was this to help quiet the noise? Maybe.

Just some of my own observations.

 

[ArtQ]

Just an observation on my part but, this is the only model Mustaang that has a 3 link, look where that mounts, it's a direct line to transfer noise to the cabin. The 75-140, the axle weights, the solid filled two piece driveshaft, they did alot to try and mask the noise. Then we come along and replace all this stuff.

 

[Konablue10Gt]

I agree 100%. Ford went to great lengths to help mask the noise. Every chassis out there transmits noise and vibration differently. The S197 must amplify the hell out of them lol!

 

[TexasBlownV8]

One other tip I can recommend, is not only to file off the ring gear, but make DAMN SURE the carrier surface is nice and clean! One set I put in, there was hardenned goop that causes the ring gear to not sit completely flat. Checking runout after install really revealed that the ring gear was not installed straight.
So clean both the back of the ring (filing) and the carrier!

BTW, my FRPP 373's whine some at certain speeds but not at others. But I also have the backlash slightly out past spec by .003-004.

 

[xtweakerx]

i have a set of those ford racing gears that were made by motive in my car, it use to whine like a B!TCH!! Then when i changed the stock driveshaft to an axle-exchange 1 piece, my whine is so quiet and almost gone now at most speeds, dont know why but im happy lol.

 

[JimmyD]

Man,I thought I was the only one with my nightmare 3.31 to 3.73 install! I had my gears done twice, 2 seperate ring and pinions. People told me its a bad install, no matter what, the installers told me some S197's whine no matter what. Now I'm starting to think the latter is true. I'm a thousand bucks in the hole already with these friggin' gears, I'm kinda hesitant to do it a third time, although the noise is pretty bad.

 

[radmustangs]

Spot on post. the new casting process.

I myself have installed hundereds of gear sets and can tell you first hand that Backlash can affect gear whine. I also believe that the newer Ford gear sets not the motives are noisier than the older style gears. The newer style has the ring gear backcut I am assuming for weight savings. The newer style gears are manufactued by a different process know as the Face Hobb process. This is different from Face milling and there are different set up proceedures for them. Please note the link from the Dana corp for them. http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5717.pdf

I have had experiences where the gears were set up perfect according to the gear pattern and pinion depth and they still whined. For what ever reason it seems to be Ford racing 4.10's that do it the worst.

Another side note on that, I owned a 2008 Gt with 3.31's that whined on deaccel. The car had 15 miles on it when I bought it...and my 2010 GT with factory 3.73's whined brand new. I removed the axle weights off of it and the noise was louder.

One more thing, I dont know if this means anything but Ford switched to using 75W-140 gear oil insead of 75W-90. Was this to help quiet the noise? Maybe.

Just some of my own observations.

 

[Hitman]

I just put in my second set of 4.30's this week. The first ones whined bad. The second set is brand new FRPP and they groan like a sick whore. They are coming back out tomorrow.

 

[radmustangs]

My first set of 4.10s were installed in oct of 2007. Never made a sound. After the t lok was worn out in november of 2008 and a rebuild was done. I have yet to get a quiet setup. two differnent rear ends and two rebuilds on one of them. each time they were inspected and found to be within specs. I just shipped a very noisey rear to FRPP who said it was in spec and nothing was wrong with it. It was so loud people in other cars could hear it.

So i know your pain.

Gotta be the new casting process in my mind.

 

[jroc07gt]

after my horrible experience with my 4.10s and reading this thread, im starting to wonder if maybe i would have better luck non frpp motive gears next time.

 

[Timbostang]

I had this same problem in my 06 with the 4.10 non-motive. Everything was in spec but it still wined at certain speeds and especially on decel.

I think I have a cure though.............Cobra jet 9" rear end!

 

[Mod_Boss]

these things are so picky with everything. we found that sometimes its just the pinion angle. do most of you have adjustable upper control arms? we played around with a few and if the pinion angle isn't perfect you'll get that hellish sound. couldn't tell you why but that seems to be one of the biggest causes of the gears sounds in these cars.

 

[Kaldar142]

my gears whine like a mofo, i dont really care though... my car is so loud that it masks it... kind of.

although sometimes it does get annoying, its a mustang and i dont mind the rattles and creaks... every car i have had has done that. quiet cars and luxury cars are for old farts

 

[Shaffe]

Ive said it before in gear threads, I had Motive 4.10 gears in 04 Mustang. they were as quiet as stock. No problem whatsoever.

If they are installed correctly they should not whine. others on this forum have agreed with me.

there might be other variables like others have said,