Getting S197's into the 12's

[marcspaz]

He absolutely deserves it, BTW I gave you your recipe for 12's the car will do it but its all on the driver, and by the sound of it, you have a long way to go.... That is all.. BTW your wrong.. My dick is HUGE

Dude, a stick s197 needs more than a gears and DR's to get in the 12's. Esp considering they are 14.1-13.9 stock.

Seat time does have a lot to do with it, but that is not the be-all end-all.

 

[BigMike]

haha no not pinked, btw a stock s197 makes around 270 rwh stock, if you cant hit 12's with gears, stickies, tune, intake, exhaust theres a problem

 

[marcspaz]

haha no not pinked, btw a stock s197 makes around 270 rwh stock, if you cant hit 12's with gears, stickies, tune, intake, exhaust theres a problem

Dude, where are you getting this stuff from? I dyno and track test every step of progress with my car. Here is my history

START - Stock my car made 259 rwhp and 265 rwtq. I ran a 14.1 two dozen times before I caught a 13.9.

Step 1 - On pump gas, with the above mentioned parts, less DR's, plus UDP's and a short throw shifter, I was pushing 300 rwhp and 306 rwtq, which got me down to 13.3.

Step 2 - I then added DR's and a complete FRPP suspension setup. That got me to 13.111. Makes sense; I picked up 2/10 in the 60'. Close to 12's, but not quite.

Step 3 - Later I used 103 oct race fuel, and really messed with the AFR and timing to get the TQ up. After messing around for weeks I got the rwhp up to 306 and the rwtq to 325. With that and gutting the car, I got down to 12.844. Unfortunately, race fuel is designed for high compression motors. The unburnt fuel cost me $250 to replace my plugs and O2 sensors. Not doing that every time I go to the track.

Step 4 - I then had to add NSR cams, long tubes, hemi LCA's and LCA relocation brackets to get my tq, hp, and traction up without race fuel and a crazy tune, but the $2,200 round of mods only got me back to 332 rwhp, 319 rwtq and a best run of 12.899.

Step 5 - Now I have added P&P heads, Manley SS valves, upgraded valve springs and retainers, Comp Cams stage 3 cams, VCT lockouts, a locker, 4.56 gears (upgrade from 4.10), AL DS, and a Spec stage 3 clutch, and a HD rear UCA for a grand total of 391 rwhp and 358 rwtq. All that only got me down to 12.5's. A lot of money for .27 seconds.

After having "step 2" be the closest I got and still much more hardware than what you stated, and seeing what some members of our car club went through, I have to say that it is not the norm for an s197 in street dress to go 12's on pump gas with that setup.

I am not saying there isn't any factory freaks or that it is 100% completely impossible, but it sure as hell ain't common.

I'll tell you this, I have seen several people say they ran 13.1 or even 12.9's with intake, exhaust, gears and a tune. Shit I have seen people say they did 12.9 stock. However, every single one of those people refused to meet me at the track; all with a bunch of BS excuses.

 

[alloy6ix]

haha no not pinked, btw a stock s197 (one that I saw in some magazine some time ago, which must be the same for all mustangs cause i read it, and everything I read must be completely and entirely true.) makes around 270 rwh stock , if you cant hit 12's with gears, stickies, tune, intake, exhaust theres a problem

and where exactly is this problem?

 

[BigMike]

and where exactly is this problem?

HAHAHAHA accually Ive been to a couple dyno days and have seen for myself what they put down, also have driven almost bone stock 2006 with stickies and stock gear and a cai to a 13.5 at 106 with a shit 2.0 60' no seat time in it either to learn the car, Redlined first to second for a split second...,while the owner was knocking on 12's door with a 13.1 or 13.2 i believe and the mph was 105-106 on each run, no my friend im not a magazine feind, i accually get my hands dirty unlike half of you.. Stick to driving your v6 to the grocery store....

 

[BigMike]

Dude, where are you getting this stuff from? I dyno and track test every step of progress with my car. Here is my history

START - Stock my car made 259 rwhp and 265 rwtq. I ran a 14.1 two dozen times before I caught a 13.9.

Step 1 - On pump gas, with the above mentioned parts, less DR's, plus UDP's and a short throw shifter, I was pushing 300 rwhp and 306 rwtq, which got me down to 13.3.

Step 2 - I then added DR's and a complete FRPP suspension setup. That got me to 13.111. Makes sense; I picked up 2/10 in the 60'. Close to 12's, but not quite.

Step 3 - Later I used 103 oct race fuel, and really messed with the AFR and timing to get the TQ up. After messing around for weeks I got the rwhp up to 306 and the rwtq to 325. With that and gutting the car, I got down to 12.844. Unfortunately, race fuel is designed for high compression motors. The unburnt fuel cost me $250 to replace my plugs and O2 sensors. Not doing that every time I go to the track.

Step 4 - I then had to add NSR cams, long tubes, hemi LCA's and LCA relocation brackets to get my tq, hp, and traction up without race fuel and a crazy tune, but the $2,200 round of mods only got me back to 332 rwhp, 319 rwtq and a best run of 12.899.

Step 5 - Now I have added P&P heads, Manley SS valves, upgraded valve springs and retainers, Comp Cams stage 3 cams, VCT lockouts, a locker, 4.56 gears (upgrade from 4.10), AL DS, and a Spec stage 3 clutch, and a HD rear UCA for a grand total of 391 rwhp and 358 rwtq. All that only got me down to 12.5's. A lot of money for .27 seconds.

Shit I have seen people say they did 12.9 stock. However, every single one of those people refused to meet me at the track; all with a bunch of BS excuses.

I appreciate the time line you gave me LOL, all it did was prove my point even more...

First off my friend I said nothing about the car being stock, there's no reason for you not to be pushing about 300 rwh with a intake exhaust "mid pipe, cat back" a nice intake system and a tune.. Tires yes a 26 inch tall e.t. street or equivalent, there is no reason for you not to slap a 12.9.. or at least damn close to it... My lightning had 387 rwh and weighed 4626 lbs with me in it and I managed a 12.9 at 107 on street tires...., so that's couple less rear wheel horse and you car probably weighs in at about 3500 lbs so I had about a thousand lbs. on you give or take.. Thats adds up to a full second you should have on me if you do the math... Must be that texas humidity... All this talk about race fuel in your car? Can you explain to me how it added torque and messed up your timing? Also why race fuel is for high compression motors alone? LMFAO all your doing is hurting your performance as race gas is a higher octane and resistance to burn..... I'd like to see you try to explain yourself to the guys running 7.5:1 with 50 lbs of boost on how there not supposed to use race fuel... Looks like you guys are the ones that get up on the magazine lingo around here if you ask me..

BTW

Shit I have seen people say they did 12.9 stock. However, every single one of those people refused to meet me at the track; all with a bunch of BS excuses.

whenever you feel like dragging your ass up to Massachusetts, ill race you in my car that has about 91+ less rwh and ill show you how bad you wasted your money on all those cams, springs, who ha's and what have it.. Cause it all means nothing if you cant drive your car LIKE ALOT OF PEOPLE I KNOW... IT IS WHAT IT IS....

 

[kbchevlvr]

i am not picking sides here. but reading this thread was a little enlighting for me from a technical standpoint. i have been beating myself trying to get my wifes 06 auto into the 12's. i read tons of people listing that are running the numbers with similar mods as me, but i cant seem to make it happen....yet! i have had very reputable shops tell me what it should be running, yet when it doesnt...they simply dont have an answer, AND CAN'T HELP????? i am not gonna mention names, but they know who they are, and know who i am. all they wanna do is sell you more parts, thinking that is the fix.... keep in mind i asked these companies for a list of mods to do prior to doing anything. they knew my goals, and i did what they recomended. now when it is not working...well you know the rest. i have since hooked up with BBR and feel like these guys are gonna help me get straightened out...heck they have already offered more info/ willingness to help in 1 phone call than the others even considered.

not that i am happy that you (marcspaz) arent running faster, but it was kinda nice reading that i am not the only one having similar issues.

 

[marcspaz]

I appreciate the time line you gave me LOL, all it did was prove my point even more...

Missing how that is... but w/e

First off my friend I said nothing about the car being stock, there's no reason for you not to be pushing about 300 rwh with a intake exhaust "mid pipe, cat back" a nice intake system and a tune.. Tires yes a 26 inch tall e.t. street or equivalent, there is no reason for you not to slap a 12.9.. or at least damn close to it...

I agree with the hp vs mods. 13.3 is close to 12.9 LOL

My lightning had 387 rwh and weighed 4626 lbs with me in it and I managed a 12.9 at 107 on street tires...., so that's couple less rear wheel horse and you car probably weighs in at about 3500 lbs so I had about a thousand lbs. on you give or take.. Thats adds up to a full second you should have on me if you do the math... Must be that texas humidity...

Since you want to compair apples and oranges...

My car is full street dress. Prior to my installing the AL DS and doing some very minor weight savings, with me in it, it weighed in at 3980. Right now it weighs 3820.

I only have about 12 passes on this car since I did the head work. With seat time, I am sure I will get it faster.

Also, I live in Virginia, not Texas...

All this talk about race fuel in your car? Can you explain to me how it added torque and messed up your timing? ...Also why race fuel is for high compression motors alone? LMFAO all your doing is hurting your performance as race gas is a higher octane and resistance to burn.....

I never said I added tq AND messed up my timing. Re-read the post. I said I used race fuel to allow me to adjust my AFR and timing to achieve more tq.

Because of the race fuel, I was able to lean out the fuel and run much more aggressive/advanced timing, allowing the fuel to be under more pressure at the time of burn, in turn giving me more tq. That did not "hurt" my performance.

As far as race fuel being for high CR motors, every single fuel maker says any fuel 100 octane and over should not be used in a motor with less than 12.5:1 CR's, as without high compression, the fuel does not burn completely, leaving residue inside the engine and exhaust.

I'd like to see you try to explain yourself to the guys running 7.5:1 with 50 lbs of boost on how there not supposed to use race fuel

Dude, are you fucking retarded? LOL 7.5:1 NA CR with 50 PSI of boost is an effective CR of 33.01:1

Looks like you guys are the ones that get up on the magazine lingo around here if you ask me..

I am not a big fan of trade rags myself, but based on that last two statements you made, it looks like you need to do some more reading.

BTW
whenever you feel like dragging your ass up to Massachusetts, ill race you in my car that has about 91+ less rwh and ill show you how bad you wasted your money on all those cams, springs, who ha's and what have it.. Cause it all means nothing if you cant drive your car LIKE ALOT OF PEOPLE I KNOW... IT IS WHAT IT IS....

I live in VA now, but I was born and lived in Providence RI most of my life. I come up there several times a year, including a trip coming up before September. You feel like trekking up to NE Raceway? I would love to see just what kind of driver and person you are... It will start with a hand shake, and we can see where it goes from there.

 

[BigMike]

I live in VA now, but I was born and lived in Providence RI most of my life. I come up there several times a year, including a trip coming up before September. You feel like trekking up to NE Raceway? I would love to see just what kind of driver and person you are... It will start with a hand shake, and we can see where it goes from there.

haha marc im a very likeable person believe it or not, just dont like ignorant people that think there shit dont stink.. i would love to run your car, all in fun of course, NED is my only raceway, set up a time

 

[jroc07gt]

marc really it just depends on your location, track prep, driver. im not taking anyones side but i have a friend that just ran 12.2 with jlt, tune, 4.33s, thumper cams, stock manifolds, cmdp, o/r h pipe, frpp mufflers, udp, and tire. of course we are only like 50' above sea level but its 100 degrees down here. the same night i also watched a girl run 13.0@105 3 times with auto, c&l, tune, borla stingers, stock gear, and stock tire.

 

[marcspaz]

haha marc im a very likeable person believe it or not, just dont like ignorant people that think there shit dont stink.. i would love to run your car, all in fun of course, NED is my only raceway, set up a time

Cool, I'll take a look at the track schedule vs our travel plans and see what we can work out. We should have fun.

I am not trying to have a elitist attitude. Life has taught me to believe nothing I hear and only half of what I see. So, when I hear something that goes against what I know to be true, I get a bit defensive and debate my POV. Hence the detail responses.

looks like you have a infatuation with dicks?? Dick boxes and bags of dicks? nice 10 year old come backs, I wouldn't quit your day job if I were you, judging by your car your not doing so well hahahahaa...

and whats your infatuation with douche bags? by the looks of your picture in your profile you use them on a daily basis..

Nice haircut also....

You must wear the boots in the relationship...


You wanted douche bag, you got it....

Ok, I am going to make an effort to put and end to this...

Big Mike, between your handle, knowing where you are from, and seeing how you are responding to some of this stuff, I am going to to go out on a limb here and say you are either Italian or Irish. I am a Ginnie myself, and I grew up in an old-school / old country household, so I have a feeling we may be more alike than you think. Banking on that, I hope you understand what I am saying here...

Most of the people on this forum are not just nameless, facesless handles that could be anyone, anywhere in the world. We are friends, family, co-workers, etc. We see each other all the time, sometimes daily.

When you are a newcomer like yourself and come out with some shitty responses and attacks that are completely uncalled for (at least here), it provokes a lot of people. That in turn makes it so no one is having fun, learning or sharing here.

The site owner lets people have an opinion which is very cool. He also lets us police our own. So, for the sake of everyone, I promise, if you stop the BS comments, shit will cool down. Once that happens, you might actually learn some cool new stuff, and when you share good information, people won't tell you that you suck.

How bout it bro, are we sharing the sandbox and playing nice?

 

[marcspaz]

marc really it just depends on your location, track prep, driver. im not taking anyones side but i have a friend that just ran 12.2 with jlt, tune, 4.33s, thumper cams, stock manifolds, cmdp, o/r h pipe, frpp mufflers, udp, and tire. of course we are only like 50' above sea level but its 100 degrees down here. the same night i also watched a girl run 13.0@105 3 times with auto, c&l, tune, borla stingers, stock gear, and stock tire.

I have trouble believing a auto with a CAI and a tune picked up a full second compared to stock. Cat-back does nothing for these cars but sound. They would have to have more mods then they let on or it was seriously gutted.

The 12.2 pass I beleive, esp if it was an auto with weight savings. If it was a stick, even with the decrease in DLL, it would have to be gutted too.

Regardless of it being a stick or auto, the problem with that example is BigMike said CAI, tune, exhaust, gears and DR's. That 12.2 car has a lot more than that. Something that you need to think about is those cams, UDP, and CMDP's will give any S197 a 40+ RWHP/TQ advantage over a car with the setup BigMike metioned.

Weight reduction is a mod too btw. Even if it's an interior removal.

 

[BigMike]

Cool, I'll take a look at the track schedule vs our travel plans and see what we can work out. We should have fun.

I am not trying to have a elitist attitude. Life has taught me to believe nothing I hear and only half of what I see. So, when I hear something that goes against what I know to be true, I get a bit defensive and debate my POV. Hence the detail responses.





Ok, I am going to make an effort to put and end to this...

Big Mike, between your handle, knowing where you are from, and seeing how you are responding to some of this stuff, I am going to to go out on a limb here and say you are either Italian or Irish. I am a Ginnie myself, and I grew up in an old-school / old country household, so I have a feeling we may be more alike than you think. Banking on that, I hope you understand what I am saying here...

Most of the people on this forum are not just nameless, facesless handles that could be anyone, anywhere in the world. We are friends, family, co-workers, etc. We see each other all the time, sometimes daily.

When you are a newcomer like yourself and come out with some shitty responses and attacks that are completely uncalled for (at least here), it provokes a lot of people. That in turn makes it so no one is having fun, learning or sharing here.

The site owner lets people have an opinion which is very cool. He also lets us police our own. So, for the sake of everyone, I promise, if you stop the BS comments, shit will cool down. Once that happens, you might actually learn some cool new stuff, and when you share good information, people won't tell you that you suck.

How bout it bro, are we sharing the sandbox and playing nice?

Agree'd and im done blasting people here, just merely defending myself, cant wait to meet you and maybe give you pointers on to turn a better time.

 

[jroc07gt]

I have trouble believing a auto with a CAI and a tune picked up a full second compared to stock. Cat-back does nothing for these cars but sound. They would have to have more mods then they let on or it was seriously gutted.

The 12.2 pass I beleive, esp if it was an auto with weight savings. If it was a stick, even with the decrease in DLL, it would have to be gutted too.

Regardless of it being a stick or auto, the problem with that example is BigMike said CAI, tune, exhaust, gears and DR's. That 12.2 car has a lot more than that. Something that you need to think about is those cams, UDP, and CMDP's will give any S197 a 40+ RWHP/TQ advantage over a car with the setup BigMike metioned.

Weight reduction is a mod too btw. Even if it's an interior removal.

i know the guy real good. the 12.2 was with a stick and full weight. there might be couple minor things i dont know about but he still has stock heads and manifolds for sure. the car does have a 100 shot but he runs 10.9-11.1 with that. the girl in the 13.0 auto car was tuned by the same guy that tuned my car. the mods i told you is all she has unless she has gear and just wouldnt tell me. she was pulling 2.0 60's on stock tire like it was nothin.

 

[marcspaz]

Agree'd and im done blasting people here, just merely defending myself, cant wait to meet you and maybe give you pointers on to turn a better time.

Cool man! It will be fun for sure. My 60' sucks ass. Any pointers will be well received.

i know the guy real good. the 12.2 was with a stick and full weight. there might be couple minor things i dont know about but he still has stock heads and manifolds for sure. the car does have a 100 shot but he runs 10.9-11.1 with that. the girl in the 13.0 auto car was tuned by the same guy that tuned my car. the mods i told you is all she has unless she has gear and just wouldnt tell me. she was pulling 2.0 60's on stock tire like it was nothin.

Well the stick car sounds like it has some major work done to it. Sounds like on the spray he is close to 440 at the wheels. Both times are impressive.

I think the chick was holding out on you though.

 

[duece05]

marc really it just depends on your location, track prep, driver. im not taking anyones side but i have a friend that just ran 12.2 with jlt, tune, 4.33s, thumper cams, stock manifolds, cmdp, o/r h pipe, frpp mufflers, udp, and tire. of course we are only like 50' above sea level but its 100 degrees down here. the same night i also watched a girl run 13.0@105 3 times with auto, c&l, tune, borla stingers, stock gear, and stock tire.

do you really expect all the guys in here, that know what it takes to get an S197 to run a 13.00, to believe what you just said. man I apologize for coming off as a non-believer........but Jesus

 

[06vistabluegt]

do you really expect all the guys in here, that know what it takes to get an S197 to run a 13.00, to believe what you just said. man I apologize for coming off as a non-believer........but Jesus

Here's what it took for me to run a 13.02. JLT II CAI and Bama tune, Line locks, MT ET Street Radials, O/R X, LCA's and relo brackets. The temp was about 40 degrees, DA was probably around 1000'. I was hoping to get a 12 with those mods but that was the best I did. The next year I did a best of 12.76 with nothing more added than an aluminum DS and 4.10's. I saw a guy the same year run a 13.0 on a 100% stock s197. I mean NOTHING was done to the car, right down to the Pirelli's. The guy could downright drive the car.

 

[duece05]

Here's what it took for me to run a 13.02. JLT II CAI and Bama tune, Line locks, MT ET Street Radials, O/R X, LCA's and relo brackets. The temp was about 40 degrees, DA was probably around 1000'. I was hoping to get a 12 with those mods but that was the best I did. The next year I did a best of 12.76 with nothing more added than an aluminum DS and 4.10's. I saw a guy the same year run a 13.0 on a 100% stock s197. I mean NOTHING was done to the car, right down to the Pirelli's. The guy could downright drive the car.

I have "heard" of guys running in the 12's with just a tune and intake.....not saying they didn't just saying that is kind of hard for "me" to believe......no slight against anyone, and as far as alum D/S and gears these tend to help a bit........lol. i have everything you have except alum d/s and line lock ran 12.75 on 275/40/17 street tires. Temp was right at 70 degrees. Air was good that day

 

[06vistabluegt]

I have "heard" of guys running in the 12's with just a tune and intake.....not saying they didn't just saying that is kind of hard for "me" to believe......no slight against anyone, and as far as alum D/S and gears these tend to help a bit........lol. i have everything you have except alum d/s and line lock ran 12.75 on 275/40/17 street tires. Temp was right at 70 degrees. Air was good that day

My post wasn't meant as knock on you.Trust me, I know it's difficult to run 13.0 with minimal mods. Until I did it, I thought people were full of BS. When the guy ripped off a 13.0 completely stock, all I could do was shake my head and laugh at how bad of a driver I really am.
The 4.10's and the aluminum DS really helped me a lot. Too bad I had trans issues all year or I might have gotten into the 12.6's. Still getting used to the TR6060 and about to have 4.88's put in the car. When That is done and I learn how to drive it again, I hope to be in the mid 12's. We'll see.

 

[jroc07gt]

do you really expect all the guys in here, that know what it takes to get an S197 to run a 13.00, to believe what you just said. man I apologize for coming off as a non-believer........but Jesus

like i said she may have had gear or cmdps but wasnt telling me. i verified that she still had stock pullies with no short belt and stock pirellis. i watched her launch everytime and there was no wheelspin at all. i go to the same shop where she got everything done so i will ask the shop owner about it. the same night there was also a guy running 13.4@102 with the mufflers removed and a old k&n cai that didnt require a tune.