How much E85 power will 1000cc injectors support?

[stkjock]

1000 whp? On corn, not with 1000cc IMHO

 

[Flapjack]

1000 whp? On corn, not with 1000cc IMHO

I've been told my 120s would be pushing it. 120lb injectors should equal 1260cc or so.

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[GB10]

Beef, Was this with the JPC Triple Hat and 3-465s ? Im hoping to crack 1000rwhp safely with ID1000s. T1(Makers of ID injectors told me no way) with Walboro pumps, it would be marginal with twin Weldon 2015 pumps and I would need a base pressure of 110psi.

Yea, those 255s won't support the flow at the pressure you would need to make 1000rwhp with ID1000s. Electric pumps typically lose flow output significantly with an increase in output pressure.

 

[Flapjack]

Yea, those 255s won't support the flow at the pressure you would need to make 1000rwhp with ID1000s. Electric pumps typically lose flow output significantly with an increase in output pressure.

What are your thoughts on my setup? I'm running 48psi base fuel pressure with Bosch 120s. I'm at high altitude, so I'm sure my corrected numbers with be fine. But I'd also like to go to the next Mustang Collective "Buckeye Brawl", which is guaranteed to be closer to sea level than I am now.

**EDIT**
Also running triple Walbro 255s in a Fore hat. -10AN supply, -8AN return.

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[beefcake]

2 465's will get you there,

i run 3 for the added safety margin, i have the jpc hat, might as well run the pumps

 

[GB10]

What are your thoughts on my setup? I'm running 48psi base fuel pressure with Bosch 120s. I'm at high altitude, so I'm sure my corrected numbers with be fine. But I'd also like to go to the next Mustang Collective "Buckeye Brawl", which is guaranteed to be closer to sea level than I am now.

**EDIT**
Also running triple Walbro 255s in a Fore hat. -10AN supply, -8AN return.

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Are you running 14psi of boost at the e85 number in your sig?

I think you would be pushing it. I'd do 340lph pumps so you don't run the pumps at their max.

Here is a good set of fuel calculators that are pretty accurate:
http://www.mopacautosupply.com/fuelcalculators/fuelcalculators.htm

 

[Flapjack]

2 465's will get you there,

i run 3 for the added safety margin, i have the jpc hat, might as well run the pumps

But isn't it the 465s everyone's having problems with?

Are you running 14psi of boost at the e85 number in your sig?

Yeah, the 802 run was at 14psi. The next run will be at this 17psi setting, then 20psi... if all looks well. You can bet we'll be paying careful attention to fuel pressure and fuel injector duty cycles.

I think you would be pushing it. I'd do 340lph pumps so you don't run the pumps at their max.

Damn. I really don't want to have to buy new pumps, but I guess there are more expensive things out there...

Here is a good set of fuel calculators that are pretty accurate:
http://www.mopacautosupply.com/fuelcalculators/fuelcalculators.htm

Thanks. I'm on my phone now, but I'll definitely check them out later.

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[BruceH]

How do you like the return setup and how difficult was it to install?

 

[Flapjack]

How do you like the return setup and how difficult was it to install?

I love it. It wasn't to terribly difficult to install. The hardest part was getting the three -6AN lines to hat. It's quite a tight fit.

Also, don't get those crappy soft braided lines (Goodyear, maybe?). They weep vapors and make your car smell like ass.... especially in the garage. I'll be switching over to the Teflon stuff soon.

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[TurboX]

Yea, those 255s won't support the flow at the pressure you would need to make 1000rwhp with ID1000s. Electric pumps typically lose flow output significantly with an increase in output pressure.

2 465's will get you there,

i run 3 for the added safety margin, i have the jpc hat, might as well run the pumps

Thanks, I am upgrading to Triple 465s. I spoke to T1(Injector Dynamics) and they told me it was going to require a crazy high base pressure and be close, we shall see.

 

[Flapjack]

Thanks, I am upgrading to Triple 465s. I spoke to T1(Injector Dynamics) and they told me it was going to require a crazy high base pressure and be close, we shall see.

Why aren't you going with better injectors and less base pressure?

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[beefcake]

the 405's are the pumps everyone is having issues with, not the 465's.

again, with 3 465's and the id1000's with a base of 70 and a peak of 88, i made 960rwhp

2 465's will support the power, but the 3rd gives you some nice insurance in case one of the pumps would quit for some reason

 

[DILYSI Dave]

I made 56 HP per 440cc injector on my boosted Honda on E85, with plenty of headroom. Extrapolating that, eight 1000cc injectors should be good for ~1000HP, again, with plenty of headroom.

EDIT - That was with the regulator at a base pressure of 38 psi. 10 psi boost = 48 psi of fuel pressure once it ramped. Used a single Walbro 255.

 

[stkjock]

70 psi base pressure, seems high, but if that's how Lund tuned it I'd defer to him

 

[beefcake]

70 psi base pressure, seems high, but if that's how Lund tuned it I'd defer to him

we are running 60 with the 2000's

 

[TurboX]

Why aren't you going with better injectors and less base pressure?

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Honestly, $2000 dollars here, $2000 dollars there is adding up very fast. Im not trying to cut corners and if Manuel says we need bigger injectors I will get them, I just gotta try and trim fat somewhere. My better half is getting to many purses and we are getting to the point its going to cost me jewelry.

Beefcake is my inspiration on why I dont need injectors. Him supercharger and me turbo, is my way of thinking.

I made 56 HP per 440cc injector on my boosted Honda on E85, with plenty of headroom. Extrapolating that, eight 1000cc injectors should be good for ~1000HP, again, with plenty of headroom.

EDIT - That was with the regulator at a base pressure of 38 psi. 10 psi boost = 48 psi of fuel pressure once it ramped. Used a single Walbro 255.

This is apples and oranges, its going to be close. As much as I have into this new combo, I wont settle for marginal. Marginal is going to cost kitchen and bathroom upgrades if things go south

 

[Full_Tilt]

What's with all the guesswork up in here? You can calculate this shit.

8 1000cc injectors at 80% duty cycle, assuming a BSFC of 0.9 (that's some added headroom for those that like to run rich), flow enough to support 690 HP by my calculations.
Now before you go telling me "I made 715 HP hurt durr", that calculation is conservative. I don't believe in running injectors above 80% duty cycle.

 

[BruceH]

So the question is how far have you been able to go with E85 and 1000cc injectors?

What's with all the guesswork up in here? You can calculate this shit.

8 1000cc injectors at 80% duty cycle, assuming a BSFC of 0.9 (that's some added headroom for those that like to run rich), flow enough to support 690 HP by my calculations.
Now before you go telling me "I made 715 HP hurt durr", that calculation is conservative. I don't believe in running injectors above 80% duty cycle.

It's because I was looking for experience here. BSFC numbers have never correlated to reality with any of my builds. Throw e85 into the mix and it's even harder to calculate. Experience takes the guesswork out imo.

 

[BruceH]

Injectors came today. Changed the tune and went for a spin. I'll have to tweak the maf xfer about 6% in the closed loop range. Tip in is excellent as is idle. The few times I went open loop it settled in at 11.3-.4. I'm commanding 11.5 so I'd say so far so good. It may be awhile before I get it on a dyno to verify everything. The car has too much power for any kind of meaningful wot pull.

They have a few adapters, lol. USCAR electrical adapters and a height adapter. Straight from Bosch, no modifications to the flow. They were sold to me as 970cc. Notice the seven hole tip, most of the high flow injectors are a nozzle.

 

[Flapjack]

Injectors came today.

They look nice.

The car has too much power for any kind of meaningful wot pull.

I know your pain. Sucks to think I may go to the dyno tomorrow and still have some issues with spark, as I haven't really been able to test much past 14psi on the street.

They have a few adapters, lol. USCAR electrical adapters and a height adapter.

Same with mine. I hated all the adapters at first (two height adapters for each... one on top and bottom, as well as the USCAR adapter), but all seems well. Other than an initial leaking o-ring and the USCAR adapters feeling flimsy, they seem to be doing a great job.

Here's a pic of mine (with only one spacer installed):