I need some S197 schooling (Camber issue?)

[Deez-67]

I've been dealing with this for years now and I'm ready to find a solution to the problem. For some resson my driver side front wheel does not have enough adjustment to get enough "camber?" out to keep from wearing out the inside of the tire. The car is on FFRP springs & struts and does have camber bolts. I have replaced the lower control arm and ball joint with the GT500 set up.

Would camber plates fix this problem or do I just need to stand over the wheel shop while they aline the thing to make sure they are even using the camber bolts?

Has one else had this issue?

It's only the driver side. The passenger side is perfect.

 

[Cammed 05]

Have you tried flipping your camber bolts the other way? A local guy told me that's what he ended up doing and he was able to get back in spec.

I never could get past -1.4 left and -1.7 right with the bolts. Neither could my buddy he was around the same. Guy I had talked to flipped his around since he works in a shop and can align his car free of charge, as do I, but said e got his back into spec.

Both my buddy and I bought plates. I went MM and he went j&m camber plates. I'm still at -1.0 camber because I like to play in the corners, but about to go to factory spec next time I have it on the rack.

 

[kell0177]

Have you tried flipping your camber bolts the other way? A local guy told me that's what he ended up doing and he was able to get back in spec.

I never could get past -1.4 left and -1.7 right with the bolts. Neither could my buddy he was around the same. Guy I had talked to flipped his around since he works in a shop and can align his car free of charge, as do I, but said e got his back into spec.

Both my buddy and I bought plates. I went MM and he went j&m camber plates. I'm still at -1.0 camber because I like to play in the corners, but about to go to factory spec next time I have it on the rack.

He's right. Most cam bolt manufacturers say to install the bolt one direction for more positive camber and the other direction for more negative camber.

 

[Deez-67]

hhhmmm Ok I might look at that. Thanks you two.

 

[TexasBlownV8]

Do you have the alignment numbers? Do you know for sure the camber is all the way out on the adjustment bolt on the driver side?
The "spec" us up to -1.5, but if you're getting wear on the inside, the camber is likely too far negative. My stock camber was around -0.6 before lowering.
I'm using Eibach camber bolts and was able to adjust the camber by 2* on each wheel.

 

[Deez-67]

Do you have the alignment numbers? Do you know for sure the camber is all the way out on the adjustment bolt on the driver side?
The "spec" us up to -1.5, but if you're getting wear on the inside, the camber is likely too far negative. My stock camber was around -0.6 before lowering.
I'm using Eibach camber bolts and was able to adjust the camber by 2* on each wheel.

I do have the # but they are at the house. I'll try to get those and post them up in here tonight. Both times I've had this car aligned they said that they used all the adjustment they could.

 

[Whiskey11]

I doubt highly that it is camber wear. If he was over -2.0° and driving on the highway solely I might be concerned but I DDed my Mustang on -1.7° for over a year and daily on around that much now and I never see camber wear. Toe is set to zero.

I have a theory and it revolves around scrub radius issues caused by camber bolts and non stock offset wheels and tires. This is not the first time I have heard of someone in spec or just slightly out with "camber wear issues" and the common denominator has always been camber bolts and non stock offset wheels and tires.

Basically scrub radius is the difference between the center of the contact patch and the line drawn through the steering axis. On a strut based car, camber bolts can change the steering axis line and drag the inside of the tire because of the increase in scrub radius from dialing out negative camber. Offset the wheels further out and the problem becomes more apparent because you add in scrub.

Until we see the camber numbers it is too difficult to say but generally speaking you have to do a lot of straight line driving with a lot of static negative camber to see "camber wear". It is far more likely to be a scrub radius issue or a toe issue.

That said, camber adjusted at the strut mount does not have this issue because the steering axis line and the center of the contact patch change at the same rate keeping scrub radius more or less constant.

 

[Makdaddy]

Plates will def help
There is more room to adjust with the plates then with just camber bolts.

And OH
On the passenger side with plates, we had to cut or trim the tower to get it in spec with Sportlines

 

[Pentalab]

My 2010 GT was -1.1 on the pass side..and -1.4 on the driver's side. The toe was outa whack a bit too. Since there is NO camber adjustment at all on these cars, this drove me nuts..esp with a staggered 255 front, 275 rear combo.

Installed the steeda heavy duty strut mounts with their slots. That allows for +/1 deg of camber adjustment. That's +/- 1 deg of what ever you have to begin with. Since I have 9" rims with a 30mm offset on the fronts, I decided to play it safe..and set both fronts for -1 deg of camber. After talking to a lot of camber plate manufacturer's, they claim -1 deg is a good compromise between handling and tire wear...esp with a staggered setup...where you can't rotate the tires.

Just for a laff, I tried using my 6" digital level..and placed it at the 2 + 4 o'clock positions on the rim..and pointed straight ahead...see exactly -1 deg on both fronts.

Dunno how much more neg camber I could safely put in there. While -1.7 deg might not look like very much on paper....it's actually quite a bit. The story I got was with -1.5 to -2.0 degs..... the car will want to wander when cruising in a straight line on the hwy. I have no experience with any of this...so played it safe with -1 deg. It can always be increased slightly at a later date. I suspect -1.2 to -1.5 would be the optimum sweet spot ..for a street car.... but dunno about inside tire wear.

Jimbo

 

[TexasBlownV8]

Whisky11 also made me think of something. If you're getting tire rub on turns, you could cause some abnormal wear. But you don't drive turned that much, so rubbing would scrape away at the tire.

The camber adjustments can slightly affect toe as well, and thereby affect the feel even when driving straight. I've seen it with adjustments on my car, in just changing the camber and then having the toe needing adjusting as well.

More negative camber is better for corner handling but detrimental to inside tire wear, over time.

 

[Mach2burnout]

Deez I'm running the J&M camber plates and have had pretty good luck with them. Granted I don't DD it, but I've had them a couple of years now. They're reasonably priced from AM.

 

[Whiskey11]

Dunno how much more neg camber I could safely put in there. While -1.7 deg might not look like very much on paper....it's actually quite a bit. The story I got was with -1.5 to -2.0 degs..... the car will want to wander when cruising in a straight line on the hwy. I have no experience with any of this...so played it safe with -1 deg. It can always be increased slightly at a later date. I suspect -1.2 to -1.5 would be the optimum sweet spot ..for a street car.... but dunno about inside tire wear.

Jimbo

As someone who has run -1.7º on the highway before as well as -3.0º camber, -0.10º toe out and +7.0º Caster I can firmly say that -1.7º doesn't cause wandering on the highway. The car is a bit more responsive to steering input so I'm sure if you can't keep a wheel steady it will seem like it wanders more but I never had issues. I also ran -3.0º camber, -0.10º toe out and +7.0º caster for all of last week, 45 minutes worth of driving and approximately 100 miles round trip no less than 5 times and never felt the car would wander on it's own. At least no more than it does with 265's up front, rutted highways and -1.5º of camber where my DD setup is at now.

The biggest thing about high levels of camber is ensuring that toe is set correctly (as close to zero as possible). I've got several friends who daily drive with -3.5º of camber, zero toe and god knows what for caster (STi's, struts up front, probably +4.5º caster) and the only reason they see any inside tire wear is from extended, and I do mean extended, highway drives and usually multiples of them. That is a lot of negative camber. -1.7º is barely out of the ford spec and that added .2º isn't going to turn the car into a tire eating monster.

TexasBlownV8: On my car, at my ride height (nearly 2 and 1/8" in drop up front) from the strut in the middle of the strut opening (-1.5º camber) to fully dumped inward (-3.0º camber) I get a total toe change of -0.10º toe out. Each side only goes out by -0.05º which isn't a whole lot. Ford specs between -0.10º toe out to +0.30º toe in. I set my DD toe setting to zero and let it toe out when I dump the plates as it helps the car turn in during autocross runs. Your mileage may vary on other ride heights.

EDIT: I stand by my previous statements pertaining to camber bolts, wide and non-stock offset wheels and the wear the OP is seeing. The only people I know that wear tires out at -1.5º to -1.0º of camber have that combination and almost always report being "pretty aggressive with cornering". I'm pretty sure that my 200 treadwear Extreme Summer tires would show abnormally quick wear if -1.5º of camber was causing problems.

 

[07supergt]

Have you tried flipping your camber bolts the other way? A local guy told me that's what he ended up doing and he was able to get back in spec.

I never could get past -1.4 left and -1.7 right with the bolts. Neither could my buddy he was around the same. Guy I had talked to flipped his around since he works in a shop and can align his car free of charge, as do I, but said e got his back into spec.

Both my buddy and I bought plates. I went MM and he went j&m camber plates. I'm still at -1.0 camber because I like to play in the corners, but about to go to factory spec next time I have it on the rack.

That local guy would have been me. Wen I initially installed the bolts I was baffled and pissed i couldn't get the adjustment I needed. Luckily I researched it more and flipped the tab 180. Now I'm at .7 both sides.

 

[908ssp]

Toe out cause wear and wondering not camber.

 

[Deez-67]

Thank you guys for all this input (some of which is way over my head). I know I have these #'s some where and as soon as I track them down I'll "bump" this thread back up to get everyone input again.

This flipping of the tab 180 has me thinking.

 

[Deez-67]

Yeah I just can't find that info... sorry

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