Let's talk cams.

[BruceH]

The hell with it. I'm going with these and if it blows up in face.... so be it.

Have you researched the 350 cams? Almost everyone changes them out eventually. A friend of mine had a set and gained over 50rwhp when he went to 550 cams. This was with a Procharger.

 

[DAN 05]

Have you researched the 350 cams? Almost everyone changes them out eventually. A friend of mine had a set and gained over 50rwhp when he went to 550 cams. This was with a Procharger.

I will look into that. Thanks

 

[BruceH]

I will look into that. Thanks

Did you give up on the 450 cams in the classifieds that you posted you would take?

 

[DAN 05]

I messaged him about the situation. Thanks again

 

[WOT]

Are there any cams available that don't have the lopey idle? I'm looking for something stealthy that has a sleeper style profile to them. Seems like the HR's make some good power but I'm not interested or want the idle that goes along with them.
My car has full bolt ons LT, Plates,TB, ect.. I'm not planning on having FI on this car again and this car wont see the track anymore so I'm not to concern about low end that much.

 

[NotaHybrid]

Look at the 127400's. Also search more. Most of the cams out there don't have that much lope like the hot rods, Detroit rockers, & mutha thumprs.

Sent from my helicopter

 

[DAN 05]

Comment from Brenspeed;

Dan,

If you are upgrading springs I would go with something such as a 127350 comp cam. The thing is if you do not have big valve heads or highly ported CNC heads we can make as much power as those with a NSR camshaft. Our NSR cams on a stock head flow enough air to make the same as a spring required camshaft, that was the point of developing them back in 2006. Now if you have a highly modified stock head we do have better options than a NSR but the HP gain is still only about 5 more than a NSR even with a big head...depending on the mods to the car.

-Brent

 

[DAN 05]

Comment from Brenspeed part 2

Dan,

Without having aftermarket heads I would stay with a NSR cam. Smooth idle would be a 127200, or the most popular is our Detroit Rocker N/A NSR grind.
Both cams will add 25-30 HP over stock.

-Brent

haaaaaaa!!!!!!!

 

[fdjizm]

yea thought so, but they aren't lying abut the power it makes... but again I've seen hot rods make the same power plus jean creaming idle.
I think most NSR cams are in the same ballpark 20-30hp range guess it depends on preference.

I don't like that they don't provide the specs for the rockers, what happens to people who want to bring it to their local speed shop to tune, wouldn't the tuner need the specs?

 

[fzr confused]

What about the cms stage 1's for n/a? They have decently high lift and a 112 LSA...any thoughts on these?

 

[fdjizm]

What about the cms stage 1's for n/a? They have decently high lift and a 112 LSA...any thoughts on these?

Haven't heard much about those cams or seen dynos but here are the specs vs the hotrods..

FRPP Hot Rod Cams 221/240 @.050 duration, .472/.472 lift, 110 LSA
CMS Stage 1 NA cams 225/237 @.050 duration, .472/.470 lift, 112 LSA

They look pretty close and should make the normal 25-30 that all the rest of the NSR cams make.

 

[irishpwr46]

so from what I have read and began to understand, my mutha thumpers will be no good with a Paxton because of a 109 lsa. I haven't installed them yet, so I would be willing to trade someone for a set of hotrods straight up. I will even include phaser limiters. otherwise, am I right in my thinking?

 

[fzr confused]

Haven't heard much about those cams or seen dynos but here are the specs vs the hotrods..

FRPP Hot Rod Cams 221/240 @.050 duration, .472/.472 lift, 110 LSA
CMS Stage 1 NA cams 225/237 @.050 duration, .472/.470 lift, 112 LSA

They look pretty close and should make the normal 25-30 that all the rest of the NSR cams make.

Yea I figured it will net me around the same power just like the others but would the 112 LSA help with a better curve?

 

[fdjizm]

Yea I figured it will net me around the same power just like the others but would the 112 LSA help with a better curve?

Not an expert but just researching...

LSA (Lobe Separation Angle):
Lobe Separation Angle, usually referred to as "LSA", is the angle of separation between the exhaust peak and intake peak. The lower the angle, the more the lobes will overlap, and that means more lope, gas smell, and drivability issues...however, the lower LSA can also mean more power and you get it sooner in the RPM range to boot. Duration and LSA are 2 very important items in clueing you into how a cam will idle and drive, although there is a LOT more to a cam than this.

As far as what it does IN THE REAL WORLD, a low LSA like 106 or 108 will produce more torque, but over a narrower band, and usually at a lower RPM. A larger or "wider" LSA like 112 or 114 will produce lower peak torque, but tends to spread it out over a wider RPM range; mostly upwards. Because it also tends to lower the cyl pressure at the instant when the intake opens while idling, a wide LSA also improves idle quality and produces higher vacuum, which is better for computer-controlled systems (FI).

Therefore you would tend to want a narrow LSA if you can operate the engine in a narrow RPM range and a carb, because it delivers max power under those conditions (think, ½ mile or longer asphalt track with high banking and short straights and wide corners, or an automatic drag car with a converter near trap RPM); but a wide LSA when you want better idle quality, and/or are running EFI.

2° isn't a whole lot of difference. It's kind of subtle. 4° is enough to substantially change the personality of a cam.

If all that is correct then 112 LSA would offer a slightly broader torque curve than 110 LSA but this assumes everything else about the cam would be the same.

so from what I have read and began to understand, my mutha thumpers will be no good with a Paxton because of a 109 lsa. I haven't installed them yet, so I would be willing to trade someone for a set of hotrods straight up. I will even include phaser limiters. otherwise, am I right in my thinking?

Yea I think a wider LSA would be a benefit to you (FI), or else like I've heard you'd be blowing boost right out of the exhaust port.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Quick question here:

I talked to Lito, and he told me Livernois cams tend to be noisy.

Anyone have any experience with this?

Anyone know what causes it?

 

[DAN 05]

Have you researched the 350 cams? Almost everyone changes them out eventually. A friend of mine had a set and gained over 50rwhp when he went to 550 cams. This was with a Procharger.

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the great information.

Bruce, I researched the 350 and I decided to go with the 550. I can't wait to get these installed, along with all the other mods I purchased this last couple of weeks.

 

[NUTCASE]

also on a side note of NSR, VSR, and SPR cams, it looks like for a bolt on guy that just wants to bump some power NSR (or an equivalent) is the choice. yeah you might be able to get more with vsr or spr cams but after looking at the price and downtime/work diffrence NSR cams don't seem so bad any more.

when I first got my 06 I was all like "Stage 2 SPR or go home" but now that I am getting ready to do them, looking at the work involved and what I will get/loose from them, NSR stage 2 for a bolt on with a little spray car does not seem like such a bad idea any more.

not a cam pro talking here, just the voice of reason saying the best cam might not be the biggest, especially if you have to add hours and money to the job for a nominal gain.

especially if you don't forsee major engine changes in the near future.

 

[DAN 05]

also on a side note of NSR, VSR, and SPR cams, it looks like for a bolt on guy that just wants to bump some power NSR (or an equivalent) is the choice. yeah you might be able to get more with vsr or spr cams but after looking at the price and downtime/work diffrence NSR cams don't seem so bad any more.

when I first got my 06 I was all like "Stage 2 SPR or go home" but now that I am getting ready to do them, looking at the work involved and what I will get/loose from them, NSR stage 2 for a bolt on with a little spray car does not seem like such a bad idea any more.

not a cam pro talking here, just the voice of reason saying the best cam might not be the biggest, especially if you have to add hours and money to the job for a nominal gain.

especially if you don't forsee major engine changes in the near future.

I would agree for the most part, but I'm already going to be adding a handful of add-on to the car, so the added down time works for me. Plus, I will be helping with the upgrades and look forward to learning from the experience.

 

[foolio2k4]

Are there any cams available that don't have the lopey idle? I'm looking for something stealthy that has a sleeper style profile to them. Seems like the HR's make some good power but I'm not interested or want the idle that goes along with them.
My car has full bolt ons LT, Plates,TB, ect.. I'm not planning on having FI on this car again and this car wont see the track anymore so I'm not to concern about low end that much.

COMP NSR Stage 2. Check out my vids on youtube (same user ID). Virtually no lope.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

When the camshafts are set up properly there is no valve train noise on a modular engine.