Needing new phasers?

[SirKnightTG]

I noticed on Brenspeed's site that they sell replacement cam phasers and the description says this

"Often it is not possible to install comp cam phaser limiters in high mile cam phasers. This new Motorcraft cam phaser is an excellent option when high mile phasers are creating a problem."


Why is this the case? Right now I have 53K miles and later this year I'm planning on some Comp Mutha Thumprs w/ limiters so I'll probably be around 60K or so by then. I hope I won't need new phasers. Just another expense I'd rather avoid!

 

[eng943]

that's worth a call. Only explanation I can come up with is that Fors has improved or revised the oil passages in the newer phasers.

Just a guess.

 

[SirKnightTG]

I noticed there's a TSB about phaser ticking noises. They only mention 2005 for mustang (they mention other vehicles like the F150, etc). I have a 2006.

Hmm.

 

[*JZ*]

Forget the limiters.

Go with Lockouts

 

[SirKnightTG]

That's what I've been thinking.

On Bamachip's site, he no longer offers limiters and has BBR lockouts. I spoke with Doug on this and he had a lot of good things to say about lockouts and greatly preferred them.

So it's true about no loss of power with lockouts vs limiters?

What about MPG? It seems the point of VCT was to help that. Not that I'm crazy about it, but I am curious.

 

[*JZ*]

I don't want to say that was a myth. But we have cars making over 700 rwhp running lock outs... they are getting 28+ MPG

 

[SirKnightTG]

Nice. I need one of those cars! LOL! The 700 rwhp part especially.

But anyway, I was just curious b/c I at one time read something about MPG would suffer with lockouts as opposed to limiters. It was a post on a forum somewhere. I don't remember which. Mostly likely from someone speculating as opposed to actually trying it out.

So I'll probably go for the lockouts. The performance seems to be better, no messing with the wonky VCT and they're cheaper!

 

[eng943]

Forget the limiters.

Go with Lockouts

I'm not disagreeing, but I find it kind of interesting that limiters get dismissed all together when people are having sccess with them. I've yet to hear of a phaser failure with limiters. Not to say it hasn't happened.

In any event, it would be nice to hear you elaborate more on your suggestion.

Thanks.

 

[V8SRGR8]

I'm not disagreeing, but I find it kind of interesting that limiters get dismissed all together when people are having sccess with them. I've yet to hear of a phaser failure with limiters. Not to say it hasn't happened.

In any event, it would be nice to hear you elaborate more on your suggestion.

Thanks.

ditto. I'd especially like to hear from Livernois on this issue since they sell both.

 

[SirKnightTG]

Doug from Bamachips told me that the reason he's selling the lockouts now instead of the limiters is that at high RPMs he was seeing a fluctuation in the timing which was causing power drops. He said the timing was jumping between 6 and 16 degrees b/c the phasers and limiters could not hold a steady number at high RPM.

 

[eng943]

ditto. I'd especially like to hear from Livernois on this issue since they sell both.

Typically they'll tell you N/A limiters are reccomended and FI they reccomend lockouts.

However, after discsssing my build (mid 500whp) they put it to me this way. Limiters were in their words 99% certain would be fine, and lockouts were 100%.

I can appreciate wanting to be 100% certain, but at the same time I'm just being curious since I've yet to see a case of phasers failing with limiters.

In my case, I'll take the 1% chance my phasers may eventually go bad and keep the 20 or so whp the lockouts took.

 

[*JZ*]

Doug from Bamachips told me that the reason he's selling the lockouts now instead of the limiters is that at high RPMs he was seeing a fluctuation in the timing which was causing power drops. He said the timing was jumping between 6 and 16 degrees b/c the phasers and limiters could not hold a steady number at high RPM.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[FastOrange]

Doug from Bamachips told me that the reason he's selling the lockouts now instead of the limiters is that at high RPMs he was seeing a fluctuation in the timing which was causing power drops. He said the timing was jumping between 6 and 16 degrees b/c the phasers and limiters could not hold a steady number at high RPM.

This is what I've read also. When I did my cam swap we initially locked out the timing in the software and the gains were less than impressive. We went back in and gave the software 18 degrees to play with and it pick up nearly 20 more rwhp. There is a reason why COMP made the limiters and the cams to work with them, because they make more power that way. Although it comes at a cost of increased valve train noise and those lingering possibilitis of premature failure. That all brings me to the next post I quoted.

Typically they'll tell you N/A limiters are reccomended and FI they reccomend lockouts.

However, after discsssing my build (mid 500whp) they put it to me this way. Limiters were in their words 99% certain would be fine, and lockouts were 100%.

I can appreciate wanting to be 100% certain, but at the same time I'm just being curious since I've yet to see a case of phasers failing with limiters.

In my case, I'll take the 1% chance my phasers may eventually go bad and keep the 20 or so whp the lockouts took.

Even more stress is being placed on the valvetrain under boost, especially the springs which put the phasers in the "fluctuating situation" all the more frequent. I'm still not completely convinced though that its as detrimental as what has been said recently, I just need a little more proof is all.

 

[twinscrewed]

I didnt wan't to start a new thread for this, so I did a little searching and thought it would be best to start here. I am pretty sure I have a phaser on the right bank going out. It clatter's pretty bad at idle after its up to temp, and you dont really hear it while driving it...only idle. The car is Whippled, and I was thinking of just doing lockouts and some Detroit Rockers from brenspeed at the same time. Does anyone know if these cam's will work with lockouts or not?

 

[one eyed willy]

im doing lockouts my self.....20hp is nothing when you get into the 500+ range.....id rather have something more stable for my tuner to work with......


lockouts will work with any cams far as i know, im using them with a set of 127300.

 

[Mustang30212]

At what point (cam profiles) would limiters OR lockouts be necessary? I have a set of custom ground Brenspeed cams going in soon with LT's and catted x-pipe.

RH

 

[Department Of Boost]

At what point (cam profiles) would limiters OR lockouts be necessary? I have a set of custom ground Brenspeed cams going in soon with LT's and catted x-pipe.

RH

Opinions seem to be all over the place on the subject. When I first started my motor build the word on the street was lock em out for anything bigger than a NSR cam. Now (a year or so later) the consensus from Livernois and my tuner is to go with 20deg limiters when running cams in the 127300/127350 (and appropriate valve springs) range. I was locked out, I’m putting limiters in this weekend and degree-ing (sp) the cams.

I would guess that the prevailing advice will still be to lock them out if you are running big cams though.

 

[Back@itagain]

I originally had lockouts when my build was put together last summer. The car wen back over to Livernois to take care of a couple things. While it was there Dan Millen suggested swapping to limiters...picked up close to 25 rwtq through the fat part of the rpm range. I've talked to Paul Svinicki who also recommended limiters.

 

[GERMANSHEPERD]

Youll make more power with the phaser limiters.