New loud Ticking noise, pulled cam cover, pics inside.

[LuckyFlyingROUSH]

So I rarely drive the car anymore, and I started it up one day after running fine previous and it started making a loud ticking noise. So I drove it a few miles and the sound persisted so I brought it home (roughly 5 miles).

Looked up and saw alot of people have been having lash adjuster problems so I pulled the drivers side head to find this.


Mind you. This is a 2010 Roush Stage 3 Fully built engine from Roush...with less than 10k on it...and it has been driven less than 1,500 miles in the past year.


I am pretty handy having put in the motor, supercharger etc on my own, and doing everything else to this car...but I am first to say that I have never touched engine internals...so who knows what this problem is and how to fix it?


VIDEO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CUNfLupVJLg

 

[LuckyFlyingROUSH]

More pics.

 

[crownaviation]

Ughh. Looks like the cam lobe is ok but that intake follower looks like it is trashed. How long was it since you had started it last? It seems it starved for lube. Did you pay attention to the oil pressure when you started it up? BTW.. that is the right side #2 rear intake rocker. It is one of the last places to get oil. Put a new follower in and hopefully it will be good to go. When I let my cars sit over winter I start them up and let them idle up to temp once a week.

PM me if you need to borrow a valve spring tool. I also have a couple low miles followers I will give you if you need. They are cheap enough, I would just buy a new one. Check the adjuster while you are in there but IIRC to get to the intake adjusters you need to pull the cam.

Edit: Looked again and that is not the #2 lol. sorry if I see it right in the pic looks like the forward #7 Intake? but either way.. need a new one.

 

[toorbeenee]

I can see that all the ones that have changed color are shot(blue). When I replaces mine all I did was loosen the cam cap bolts and replaced the followers. Good luck with the install

 

[LuckyFlyingROUSH]

Ughh. Looks like the cam lobe is ok but that intake follower looks like it is trashed. How long was it since you had started it last? It seems it starved for lube. Did you pay attention to the oil pressure when you started it up? BTW.. that is the right side #2 rear intake rocker. It is one of the last places to get oil. Put a new follower in and hopefully it will be good to go. When I let my cars sit over winter I start them up and let them idle up to temp once a week.

PM me if you need to borrow a valve spring tool. I also have a couple low miles followers I will give you if you need. They are cheap enough, I would just buy a new one. Check the adjuster while you are in there but IIRC to get to the intake adjusters you need to pull the cam.

Edit: Looked again and that is not the #2 lol. sorry if I see it right in the pic looks like the forward #7 Intake? but either way.. need a new one.

So its an intake follower? Is there a writeup on how to change them out somewhere?

When I start it I let it idle for about a minute or two and then drive it about 30 mph in 4th for 2 miles to get out of the neighborhood. I drove it the day before to and from work (didn't get on it) and parked it in the garage. Next day...made the noise.

I am using full syn 5w50 like ROUSH recommends...is that too heavy? Didn't really pay attention to the oil pressure, but I probably would of noticed if it was low.

 

[5.SLOW]

I agree with toor. It real easy Austin. Just lose caps even and just enough to get that one out

 

[SiriusB0neR]

I am using full syn 5w50 like ROUSH .

Can i ask why?

i use that stuff in the BMW M5

 

[LuckyFlyingROUSH]

So these things pop in or what? Haven't ever really messed with crap inside the engine...cus once I start fuckin with shit... i break 10 other things.


Dunno why...but ROUSH has it on the oil cap says ROUSH 5w50 on it.

 

[crownaviation]

There will always be a great oil debate. I don't use the "recommended" stuff either. I strictly use VR 10W30. I also have an expensive built motor and each to his own on the selection. I am not a fan of the 5w50 at all and would like to know why they recommended it.

Are you using a stock oil pump? I would also inspect the right side if it were mine.

If you choose not to use the tool it can be done. PLEASE make sure you follow the torque sequence when backing them out and do not let the front cap find any angle to it. I usually break all the bolts loose following the torque sequence (in reverse) then completely remove the front cap first so I do not put any leverage on it. There have been a few people on here that have broken the front cap (I have donated two now). If you do break a cap that sucks cause I would only replace it with the intent of having it align honed. Anyway, the caps also have guide pins. They will bend too. If you do it this way then just back the bolts out a little at a time following the sequence. I normally install them without the tool (much easier) but that is with the cams out. If you remove the cams you will need a wedge. You also risk screwing up the timing which will require removing the front cover. If you go that way then make sure to mark a couple links so they go back on in the correct orientation. Cam bolts are TTY and should not be reused. This is where it us just easier IMO to use the spring compressor tool if just doing the followers. If you need to remove the adjusters then cams need to come out. When removing anything, I always make sure to label everything for place and direction. The earlier style heads had markings for place and direction so that is easy enough.

A good inspection should be done of all the cam lobes and all the followers. Look for grooves, flat spots, blue tinge, pitting or scoring. Followers are cheap compared to a motor. You really really do not want a follower to come off. Many have resulted in catostrophic failure (whole engine at risk).

The follower itself has a rolled lip on the bottom of each side that act as a retainer. Simple to remove and replace.

 

[crownaviation]

Spring compressor tool.. Make sure your workspace is clean. This is just an old head for pics.. it is dirty and would be a nono for actual use.

With the cam out, here is a pic of the follower. One end just rests on the adjuster, the other rests on the valve stem. The cam is what keeps them from popping off (usually)

Here is the folower removed

Here is the cap and the guide that can bend

The tool has feet on one end and "hooks" on the other. The hooks saddle up under the cam. Once you have the tool properly placed then you insert the rod that has a special foot on it. There are two different pieces. One is for removing the follower, the other is for removing the valve retainers. To remove the follower only, use the small one. You want the whole valve to move down giving you room to push the follower out. If you are not careful, the spring will compress and the valve stem retainers can pop off and the valve can fall into the cylinder. (don't want to do that unless you are prepared to remove the head).

This is correct

This is NOT

this is what you do NOT want to see... NOTE: this can also happen with the small foot if you are not properly placed on the valve spring retainer. See how valve is not moving, only the spring? The two small retainers are starting to become exposed. Much more and one or both can fall out. If that happens, nothing prevents the valve from dropping into the cylinder.

It really is a nice tool, but retarded expensive from freedom racing

 

[crownaviation]

I can see that all the ones that have changed color are shot(blue). When I replaces mine all I did was loosen the cam cap bolts and replaced the followers. Good luck with the install

I cant really tell with the pic tho.. needs to be inspected and beter pics would help. The glare is hard to see what has or has not happened..

On his location he might be able to get the cam up enough to replace the follower. The lobe would need to be in the correct position to have enough room tho..

 

[LuckyFlyingROUSH]

Wow thanks for the pics. Reps. Those are the best pics I have though. Do you happen to have the torque sequence sheet by chance? I think i will just try to back them all up just a little bit and rotate the crank by hand to get it out.

Not sure which pump...Whichever ROUSH put in their engines. I pulled the entire engine from a wrecked car that had been rearended.

Which of these do I need? Number 11 or number 12?
http://www.tousleyfordparts.com/par...iteid=214771&vehicleid=1444301&diagram=F21060


What oil is that Valvoline full syn 10w30?

 

[LuckyFlyingROUSH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CUNfLupVJLg

 

[crownaviation]

Wow thanks for the pics. Reps. Those are the best pics I have though. Do you happen to have the torque sequence sheet by chance? I think i will just try to back them all up just a little bit and rotate the crank by hand to get it out.

Not sure which pump...Whichever ROUSH put in their engines. I pulled the entire engine from a wrecked car that had been rearended.

Which of these do I need? Number 11 or number 12?
http://www.tousleyfordparts.com/par...iteid=214771&vehicleid=1444301&diagram=F21060


What oil is that Valvoline full syn 10w30?

Nope, real oil. It is Valvoline VR1 race oil. 10w30 and usually has to be ordered. It has lots of zinc in it and I change it on a regular basis. To be honest I would use the 5w20 before I went anything 50 on these 3v motors.

#11 on their diagram is the follower. Hopefully the rest are ok. Things can just go bad but I would try to figure out why it failed. I am still thinking about it and will get back with you for some possible simple tests when you get it ready (before you start it back up).

Here is the service manual. IIRC it is on page 15 like step 31 or so..
http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=159&viewfile=Engine.pdf

 

[LuckyFlyingROUSH]

Nope, real oil. It is Valvoline VR1 race oil. 10w30 and usually has to be ordered. It has lots of zinc in it and I change it on a regular basis. To be honest I would use the 5w20 before I went anything 50 on these 3v motors.

#11 on their diagram is the follower. Hopefully the rest are ok. Things can just go bad but I would try to figure out why it failed. I am still thinking about it and will get back with you for some possible simple tests when you get it ready (before you start it back up).

Here is the service manual. IIRC it is on page 15 like step 31 or so..
http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=159&viewfile=Engine.pdf

Hence the Oxymoron Username...gonna guess I am still unlucky. OR...combination of 5w50 oil and starting it? Does SCT have a specific oil pressure I can datalog and monitor to see if its where its supposed to be?

 

[crownaviation]

Hence the Oxymoron Username...gonna guess I am still unlucky. OR...combination of 5w50 oil and starting it? Does SCT have a specific oil pressure I can datalog and monitor to see if its where its supposed to be?

Lol, you are luckier than you think maybe.. not to mention your signature pic lol.

It could be a combination of things really. Not going to blame this all on the oil selection but cant see that heavy oil helping much. SCT to my knowledge does not have a PID for oil pressure but never really looked for one. I use an oil pressure gauge (used to anyway).

Edit: BTW.. if you are only going to replace the one or a couple followers then your local ford dealer will likely be cheaper in the long run and should have some in stock. If you are replacing a few then Tousley price will likely offset the price of shipping etc. Ask your local dealer if they can pricematch Tousley. Sometimes they will or atleast offer some discount if they are any good. I am questioning your adjuster also.

 

[toorbeenee]

I cant really tell with the pic tho.. needs to be inspected and beter pics would help. The glare is hard to see what has or has not happened..

On his location he might be able to get the cam up enough to replace the follower. The lobe would need to be in the correct position to have enough room tho..

you can easly see its blue becz of the heat,,,,only 1 follower,(second pic) it should not take more than 1 hour to replace,,,i dont think there is a need for any spring tool

 

[crownaviation]

Yup, see it now in the first pic.. got real hot.

Oil flow diagram..

 

[LuckyFlyingROUSH]

Alright, so where's this great debate on switching oil. I am going to switch to something lighter...probably stay full syn.

I just ordered from Tousley because Thourough Bred ford up here in KC likes to screw me in any way possible. Last time I had my truck up there they charged me 700 do not do anything...I ended up taking it elsewhere and the problem was fixed for 350...

I ordered two just incase...but probably am only going to replace just that one.

Any way to do reps on this forum without buying.selling something?

 

[Riptide]

5w30. I use pennzoil platinum.


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