s197 coyote swap routes

Discussion in 'Hardcore Tech=*MOTOR SWAPS*' started by Suecra, Jan 27, 2021.

  1. Suecra

    Suecra Junior Member

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    Just looking for some advice.

    I have a 2007 4.0 mustang that I've planned on swapping for years, and have plenty of headroom to do it finally, not long after my 5r55s has started finding its way to the grave.

    The main problem I'm running into; Stock computer/harnesses or PBH. Finding both a gen 2 coyote with a 6r80 (Since ill need both), and at this point I know when buying both they generally come with all the wiring and accessories, is it more realistic to just use the stock parts (since its going in a s197) or should I still purchase PBH stand alone harnesses for the transmission and motor. I would end up needing PBH power steering and HVAC solutions anyway, but generally the drivetrains I find have everything with them, and if its not necessary I don't want to spend any extra money if I don't have to, but just wanna know whats ultimately easier (also not worried about emissions either).

    My second question; I'm aware that most of the footprint for these drivetrains is the same, but since its a gen 2 and comes out of the s550 platform, will a 11-14 driveshaft fit between the transmission and rear-end? I mostly assume so but haven't found any information on that.

    Lastly, I know there's many things to do before swapping in parts, including billet oil pump gear for motor, new input shaft for transmission, etc. I'm just wondering if there is a good list of things to do before putting everything in for reliability/future upgrades, including for 8.8 axle assembly since I had to just purchase one. If there is any parts I'm missing I should upgrade I'd appreciate any information! Thanks.
     
  2. Juice

    Juice forum member

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    The biggest issue I see with your plan is the gen2 electronics wont work with the 07 cluster. I dont know what solution is out there to make it work. You can run a gen2 engine with gen1 pcm if you switch to gen1 timing components.
    Cant help on the driveshaft trans combo. I went with the magnum xl and jpc aluminum DS.
    Just about everything is a direct bolt in from 11-14 into 05-09 chassis. I ordered parts for a 13 when I did the swap.
     
  3. Suecra

    Suecra Junior Member

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    The cluster isn't the end of the world for me. I know it generally is only going to work for gen 1 but I'm gonna have an ngauge and possible even a separate digital in the future to replace it. It's just if using the stock harnesses that come with the drivetrain is basically the same as using the aftermarket harnesses ill just do that, if not I will probably buy those custom harnesses, it seems the custom ones also are designed to seperate everything and just run the drivetrain alone/seperate from anything else unnnecessary.
     
  4. LarryJM

    LarryJM forum member

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    One thing for sure, chasing parts from a junkyard will mean high cost for parts laying in the mud and dealing with people meaner then their junkyard dogs. It's better to just get a whole wrecked donor car even if the neighbors bitch for several weeks.
     
    eighty6gt likes this.
  5. Dino Dino Bambino

    Dino Dino Bambino I have a red car

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    Here's what I'd suggest:

    1. Buy a totaled '11-'14 GT to use as a donor for all the parts you're going to need. Just make sure it isn't a flood car as its electrics could be corroded. If either the engine or tranny is bad, that isn't a major problem and you should get the car much cheaper. There are plenty of other components that you could still use (rear axle, driveshaft, suspension, brakes, interior, ECU, engine & body harnesses, K member, EPAS steering rack, fuel system, starter, flywheel, engine ancillaries).

    2. As Juice said, if you get a Gen 2 Coyote engine, you'll need to swap in Gen 1 timing components. You'll also need the '11-'14 intake manifold & factory shorty headers unless you upgrade to a ported '18-'21 intake manifold (with inactivated IMRCs) and aftermarket LT headers.

    3. If the tranny is bad, don't worry. The MT82 manual is a POS anyway so you could upgrade to a TR6060, T56 Magnum XL, or a TKO 500. If the donor car came with a 6R80 automatic, replacements are cheap and plentiful.

    4. You'll need to have the '11-'14 GT ECU reprogrammed with your car's VIN, and have the PATS disabled to prevent a no start situation.

    5. Let the local Karens bitch about it. Isn't that their purpose in life? ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
  6. LarryJM

    LarryJM forum member

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    Hint: Fords new 440 used now in yellow school busses does run like a 440 and is smaller then a Coyote. They say everything else fits.
     
  7. Suecra

    Suecra Junior Member

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    So my thing is the car already has a built tubular suspension and everything is pristine and I'm buying the motor seperate and i have everything else on order or already at home. Not sure I'm gonna worry about cluster so I'm assuming gen 1 timing components aren't necessary and I was going to put a CJ intake on it instead of a stock one and AR LTs so I think I got all that down. I'm mostly curious about the differences between pbh wiring vs stock wiring. Your comment did remind me though, is there any reason a 6r80 out of a 2.3l wouldn't work? I know you have to swap the bellhousing and theres slightly less clutches inside.

    Thanks so far guys I do appreciate.
     
  8. race4food

    race4food forum member

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    There are lots of places to get the harness separate with out having an entire junk car in your yard. You will need the PBH swap harness, an engine harness and ECU, then the transmission harness.
    I would recommend running the EPASS to simplify the bracket since the harness for it will already be there. And An EPASS rack is about $250 vs the $700 plus for the PBH brackets.
     
    eighty6gt likes this.
  9. Dino Dino Bambino

    Dino Dino Bambino I have a red car

    Age:
    57
    2,584
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    I was thinking that he could use a donor '11-'14 GT to swap over a lot more than just the engine i.e. ECU, engine/body harnesses, tranny, driveshaft, rear axle, front/rear suspension (except for struts/shocks), front/rear brakes, wheels/tires (optional), dashboard/gauge cluster, seats, door panels (optional), and catback exhausts.

    What components do you have on order or at home? This will help us determine what you're still missing to complete the project.
    There are plenty of used 6R80s from '11-'17 GTs to choose from so there's no reason to buy one from an Ecoboost.
     
  10. Juice

    Juice forum member

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    And how did you address connecting the coyote harness to the 07 body harness? I dont see the PBH harness listed as a swap harness, just an 11-14 coyote harness that requires the later vct solenoids.
     
  11. eighty6gt

    eighty6gt forum member

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    It will be much cheaper and easier to just buy a 5.0 GT or GT500. If you insist on doing this, find a complete donor 5.0 and move it all over, including the shitty getrag trans.
     
  12. Juice

    Juice forum member

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    Im not sure that in the long run, that would save money.
    I bought a junkyard pull engine $3800, included everything on the engine even the top cover.
    Bought a new magnum xl $3500
    Jpc aluminum DS $400
    8.8 axle off ebay $ 1100
    Pcm and manual trans harness $550.
    JLT intake, used, $75.
    Thats the bulk of it. Prices provided for comparison.
     
  13. LarryJM

    LarryJM forum member

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    On a side note about swaps, right now I am trying to figure out the Gen 1 and the PCM and how it talks to the Cluster. I am playing with this Forscan program which can be very complicated. I do not have a cable yet but will have one within the next week to attach to my Mustang GT. There are 5 different ways to make a key. Then there is an instruction for a new programmed PCM. With type A, just exchange the PCM and turn on the key for 5 minutes and the PCM will automatically relearn the Cluster. If that is the case, it looks like if I get both a premium cluster and keys that go with it, no Pats program is needed to swap out the base cluster. Just pull the chip out of one key to replace to the other.
     
  14. eighty6gt

    eighty6gt forum member

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    exhaust, oil, shop supplies, aggravation

    I thought 5.0's were available for about 15k, that is probably not the case.
     
  15. Juice

    Juice forum member

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    Add $600 for direct fit cat/x pipe. Connected to my dual v6 conversion.
     
  16. Juice

    Juice forum member

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    Current market value of an 07 v6 is $5000 in a best case scenario.
    Some.ppl actiually like to.builld and customize cars and dont look at an engine swap as a headache.

    I personally prefer the 05-09 body style over the 11&up cars. And they are a.few pounds lighter than the 5.0 cars.
     
  17. eighty6gt

    eighty6gt forum member

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    Liking building cars? I can't imagine ;)
     
  18. Juice

    Juice forum member

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    lol
    I also like the satisfaction of driving on track a car that I built/modified vs "I bought a fast car" guy. ;)
     
    Enfield and dark steed like this.
  19. race4food

    race4food forum member

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    The PBH plugs into the bottom of the ECU and then you connect the CANBUS leads. The only other connections from the harness go to the clutch pedal (very easy), the ignition (you remove 1 wire and insert the PBH wire) and then you run a wire from the PBH harness to the fuel pump.

    Once I deciphered PBH minimal instructions I was surprised how easy it was. So all you need for a conversion is:
    1. PBH harness
    2. ECU and engine harness with the pedal for that year
    3. Tranny harness
    This will fully function in any 05-09 and run the rear lights, ABS, full CANBUS, Dash and what not. I'm even running the 08 GT500 dash in my GT and it was literally plug and play. (installed before the swap)

    JUST HAVE TO SAY THANKS TO JUICE FOR ALL THE HELP !!!
     
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