SCCA ESP Legal Bushing or Control Arm Recommendations

[07SGT4743]

Hey All,
I'm running a 2007 Shelby GT in ESP. The suspension is pretty well developed with Koni (yellow) doubles, watts link, UCA, adjustable bars, camber plates, T2R, 18x10.5 rims with 315s. The car handles well, but I'm trying to turn it up a notch.

For my next mod I've been considering upgrading the control arm bushings. Can anyone make a recommendation on something they know works well for autocross?

I've heard the bushings can be a real pain to replace, so I was wondering if it would be better to swap in OEM control arms from another year Mustang per the update/backdate allowance. I've been told Shelby GT500, 5.0 Brembo and Boss 302 rear control arms all have better bushings. For the fronts I thought the GT500 arms might be a good choice, but I could not find definitive information stating that the bushings are stiffer. I also see that Ford Racing sells what appears to be the same parts, but wasn't certain that they were identical.

Thanks for any suggestions you may have.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

I'm running a 2007 Shelby GT in ESP. The suspension is pretty well developed with Koni (yellow) doubles, watts link, UCA, adjustable bars, camber plates, T2R, 18x10.5 rims with 315s. The car handles well, but I'm trying to turn it up a notch.

Sounds like the Strano ESP Recipe (TM), to the letter. Have you asked him for help to go further? I don't want to step on Sam's toes, and I won't poo-poo his set-up advice. He has a lot of National championships, there is no deny.

But ESP has ratcheted up of late and it is going to take a lot to dethrone Mark Madarash's 3rd gen F-body build (above). We run against him locally and he is brutally fast, and always developing the car (16 years and counting), and has 7 ESP championships in this lightweight Firebird. Mark was at a local event last weekend and had a new stuff he was testing before Nats, once again. If I were a betting man I'd wager he will pull off #8 this year, too. His car CAN be beat, and I think the S197 is the car he fears mos. But it ain't gonna be done in a street car - it will take a serious effort, lots of testing, and a healthy budget.

So with that said, I'll go ahead and take a crack at your questions. First, I'll start with some questions of my own:

1. What springs/rates are you running?
2. What UCA are you running?
3. Do you plan on attending National events and the Sol Championship? Have you done so before, and if so, how did you do?
4. What is yoru budget/level of competitiveness? Will you sacrifice street car amenities to go faster? And are you willing to pour more like $1000 or up to $30,000 into the car?

For my next mod I've been considering upgrading the control arm bushings. Can anyone make a recommendation on something they know works well for autocross?

Well in the rear you cannot change out the Lower Control Arms in ESP class, nor add LCA relocation brackets, which is a real shame. Only thing you can do there is aftermarket non-metal bushings in the stock LCAs. I suppose it would help, but not as much as a properly designed arm with spherical or elastomer bushings.

As for the front LCAs, there might be some OEM arms from the update/backdate allowance, but I'd just recommend doing the bushings in the OEM arms.

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Instructions/Eibach-poly-LCA-bushing/





We stock and sell this bushing kit ($62) for the S197 and it is perfectly ST and SP legal. The labor to install them is a bit of a hassle, but if you have an afternoon to kill and a good set of tools you can do it. Makes a tremendous difference in toe control under braking and camber loss under suspension loads. HUGE. And on a pre-2011 S197 it doesn't cause any issues with the EPAS electronic steering, because the '05-10 cars don't have that mess.

Thanks for any suggestions you may have.

There could be other "low hanging fruit" that might make you faster in ESP, of course. Things like:

• Lightweight AGM style battery (an easy way to drop 25+ pounds)
• Lightweight, fixed back racing seats (a bit pricy but allows a 50-75 pound drop + a LOT more driver control)
• Weight loss by any means (A/C, radio, emissions)
• Wider wheels (18x12") and wires (335s or 345s) with flares
• Cold air intake kit, Throttle Body, aftermarket Intake Manifold
• Full length headers, lightweight exhaust (for lower weight and more power)
• Front and rear aero work (within the tight confines of ESP rules)
• Lightweight brakes (aftermarket light brakes in the smallest possible S197 diameters)
• More serious monotube dampers and much stiffer spring rates
• A Boss302 motor swap is legal, and definitely makes a lot more power
• A torque arm set-up is legal, if a tick costly, and one of the only ways to work around the ESP rules that ban proper LCA relocation brackets. Might be worth testing, but only in SCCA classes that don't allow $100 brackets that fix the rear geometry from a lowered S197

There are so many things you can do, but do you want to do them? It all depends on how serious you want to be in ESP.



All of these mods have compromises, of course. But to win ESP at Nationals takes a SERIOUS effort. One of our customers took 2nd at Nats in a 2006 GT (top left) last year, but it had 1000# springs, ASTs, no A/C, 335mm Hoosiers, and was a serious build. We took 4th in open and 1st in ESP-L, in a emissions legal, full weight street driven car - but 4th ain't 1st.

If you are just looking to go faster at the local level, that's a whole different ball game. The ruleset in ESP restricts some pretty common and beneficial aftermarket parts, of course.

Once we stopped building around SCCA class rules and left the ESP class our car got considerably faster, but now we have to autocross in StreetMod, which is a bit nuts. Our car is really set-up for track events (NASA TT) but it still does really well in autocross, though. After we made a recent spring rate upgrade (+45% in rate!) on our '11, I want to go back and do another autocross, to look at the relative PAX times again. There's always room to improve.

Feel free to give us a call at the shop to discuss your car. We don't mind phone calls or emails asking for set-up advice. 972-422-7170, ask for Terry or Jason. Or e-mail us at [email protected].

Cheers,

 

[jayel579]

• A Boss302 motor swap is legal, and definitely makes a lot more power

HA! Good one!! lol

 

[sholzer]

Ron (OP) is definitely quickly and is looking to compete nationally vs just trying to improve locally.

 

[Roadracer350]

Terry what about the Whiteline front bushing kit?

 

[JesseW.]

Terry what about the Whiteline front bushing kit?

pretty sure it cost TEXA$ compared to energy or prothane stuff. I found my prothane stuff for cheap on amazon.

 

[zquez]

To be honest, the steeda arms with the prothanes already installed are the best bang for the buck. I'd gladly buy those if I were to do it over again. SCREW trying to get the old bushings off! One of the biggest pain in the ass projects I've done on the car.

 

[JesseW.]

To be honest, the steeda arms with the prothanes already installed are the best bang for the buck. I'd gladly buy those if I were to do it over again. SCREW trying to get the old bushings off! One of the biggest pain in the ass projects I've done on the car.

agreed, I got a deal and got all the prothane front lca bushings for $80, but it took a day to get it done, ruined the floor in the shop and a good set of clothes, took 2 hours to clean off all the tools, and I still don't have the steeda extended ball joints that come with those arms. could have swapped them out in a couple of hours if I had hit the steeda easy button

 

[Department Of Boost]

The Steeda arms weren't out when I did the Whiteline bushings. I wish they were, the bushing swap SUCKS! I'll never do that again.

Steeda FTW!

 

[07SGT4743]

You guys that have done the bushing swap have confirmed my suspicion that this is not a fun job. That's what prompted my original question as to whether there was an arm that already contained upgraded bushings. Unfortunately, per my SCCA class rules, I need to stay with OEM Mustang arms although I believe I can use pieces from a different year S197, so I don't think the Steeda arms are an option.

 

[JesseW.]

the steeda arms are oem arms with different bushings and their balljoints. not sure if the ball joints are legal.

 

[zquez]

The Steeda arms are just stock 2011 arms with the prothane bushings and steeda tall ball joint kits already installed.

With all that, they still only cost as much as the whiteline bushings by themselves.

http://www.steeda.com/store/05-10-mustang-front-lower-control-arms-with-bushings.html

Of course if you wanted to do it the $$$ way, you could get the Ford Racing Boss 302S arms like I did that don't have bushings and install whatever brand you want. Ford Racings bushings are the stiffest, but also cost almost as much as the arms themselves. I did the whiteline bushings on my install. If I had known about the Steeda arms I MOST DEFINITELY would have done it that way.

 

[Whiskey11]

the steeda arms are oem arms with different bushings and their balljoints. not sure if the ball joints are legal.

They would be if he wanted to give up all camber adjustment at the strut top. That is the ONLY way to replace the lower control arm and ball joint. Otherwise, you are stuck modifying your existing arms.

Since the GT500 isn't in ESP (It's in ASP IIRC) you can't swap one of those in via update/backdate.

I am curious, has anyone done the Prothane bushings for the rear lower control arms? AmericanMuscle sells a complete Prothane kit with front lower control arm bushings, rear lower and upper control arm bushings, swaybar bushings (not that those are necessary) and rear upper diff bushing. Total cost is about $150 which isn't too bad when you think about the cost of just the front lower control arm bushings from other companies.

 

[Department Of Boost]

They would be if he wanted to give up all camber adjustment at the strut top. That is the ONLY way to replace the lower control arm and ball joint. Otherwise, you are stuck modifying your existing arms.

I'm confused. Why?

 

[Conekiller]

I'm confused. Why?

He's talking with reference to SCCA rules for ESP or lower prep levels, I think.

 

[Whiskey11]

I'm confused. Why?

Because SCCA Rules state that you can either replace the lower control arm and ball joint with an adjustable one or you can use "other forms of camber adjustment" but not both. Sorry I should have clarified.

Here is the rule from the rule book SP section:

H. Camber kits, also known as camber compensators, may be installed.
These kits consist of either adjustable length arms or arm mounts
that provide a lateral adjustment to the effective length of a control
arm. Alignment outside the factory specifications is allowed. Caster
changes resulting from the use of camber kits are permitted. The following
restrictions apply:
1. On double/unequal arm (e.g., wishbone, multi-link) suspensions,
only the upper arms OR lower arms may be modified or replaced,
but not both. Non-integral longitudinal arms that primarily control
fore/aft wheel movement (e.g., trailing arm(s) or link(s) of a multilink
suspension) may not be replaced, changed, or modified.
2. On arm-and-strut (MacPherson/Chapman) suspensions, the lower arms may be modified/replaced OR other methods of camber
adjustment as allowed by Sections 15.8.C, F, or G may be used,
but not both.
3. On swing or trailing arm suspensions, the main arms may not be
modified or replaced but lateral locating links/arms may be modified
or replaced.
4. The replacement arms or mounts must attach to the original standard
mounting points. All bushings must meet the requirements of
Section 15.8.C. Intermediate mounting points (e.g., shock/spring
mounts) may not be moved or relocated on the arm, except as incidental
to the camber adjustment. The knuckle/bearing housing/
spindle assembly cannot be modified or replaced. A non-standard
ball joint which is present in a compliant camber kit replacement
control arm is permitted to offset from the standard point the spindle
mounting location from the control arm plane.

The underlined and bolded specifically states you can replace the lower arm and later it says a non-standard ball joint can be used but only if it is the ONLY form of camber adjustment. I'm willing to bet you could use the FSM allowance for camber adjustment but beyond that, no other form can be used.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Terry what about the Whiteline front bushing kit?

These are not ESP legal, as it changes the bushing housing, not just the bushing material. What can I say other than "SCCA"...

pretty sure it cost TEXA$ compared to energy or prothane stuff. I found my prothane stuff for cheap on amazon.

Ahh, "Texa$" money, I get it. Again, if you read my post above you would have seen that I'm not pushing the WL front LCA bushings (we don't even list it on our website), as it isn't legal for his racing class. I am telling him about the Energy Suspensions kit we sell for $62. We stock this kit, and install this kit, and have used this kit successfully for over 2 years.

http://www.vorshlag.com/index.php?cPath=0_141_142_264

Now of course you can buy something similar from the "eBay solution providers". I'm sure they will come on the forums here and answer questions, talk to you on the phone to do tech support on the install, can schedule an installation on your car, and race with what they (re)sell. Oh wait, they don't of any of that.

Cheers,

 

[JesseW.]

Terry-Who needs tech support on a bushing install? i can read directions. I'll order stuff like struts, watts links and things i need setup help with from the board vendors. I'm by far a capitalist on things i understand and lowest price, best service on the same product will always win my business. i also buy nothing on credit, so by the time i get finished saving my money for parts i have researched the shit out of it.

Whiskey- not sure if the prothane bushings are ESP legal, as terry said, the whiteline one's aren't because you don't use the stock shell. the prothane one's also do not use the stock shell.... the energy one's terry sells are a good deal.

i am running the Prothane bushings (as i run in SM) and i got a killer deal from Amazon. the rear bushing isn't the bad one, the front bushing was the bitch. The inner shell would not come out of the arm and my press wasn't big enough to fit it in. so i beat it out with a chisel and hammer after hacksawing through it. i've heard an air chisel does wonders but i don't own one.

 

[zquez]

Basically you can get the outer shell off easy enough. Then you need a 3" cutting disc (and a mask and gloves and glasses and a jumpsuit and a well ventilated area and probably a plastic sheet to make things easier to clean up) after you've cut through the bushing and the inner sleeve a bit, you can use an air chisel to spread it apart and come off. I spent the better part of a day doing just one arm.

 

[stepqhen]

Whiskey- not sure if the prothane bushings are ESP legal, as terry said, the whiteline one's aren't because you don't use the stock shell. the prothane one's also do not use the stock shell.... the energy one's terry sells are a good deal.

The way I read the rules,

15.8.C. Suspension bushings may be replaced with bushings of any materials
(except metal) as long as they fit in the original location. Offset
bushings may be used. In a replacement bushing the amount
of metal relative to the amount of non-metallic material may not be
increased. This does not authorize a change in type of bushing (for
example ball and socket replacing a cylindrical bushing) or use of
a bushing with an angled hole whose direction differs from that of
the original bushing.

The change to the Prothane bushings would be legal as the metal to rubber ratio doesn't change.