Smoking on start up.

[JeremyH]

Late to the thread but cold start is when you push the most oil past the turbo seals then as the exhaust heats up any oil in the turbine burns off and gives the smoking on startup.

Breathers work best flat out for a turbo setup. People try to get fancy with it and it never works as well as disconnecting everything and letting the crankcase breathe while preventing blow by getting sucked back into the motor. Now you crankcase is vented properly and your turbo drain is flowing much better keeping you from pushing excessive amount of oil past the seals.

 

[Bullitt6301]

Well to bring this one back up. So, I was boosting it up a lot the other night and we were driving down a long hill on the highway and noticing it was smoking pretty bad when engine braking. Also, running the breathers did not completely fix the issue still burns oil on the start up. It seems to be worse at low RPM's. The car does not make any weird noises and shows decent oil pressure numbers, 20-25 hot idle and 50-60 cruising and cold start is 75+. I changed the oil with fresh Castrol synthetic 5W-20 and sub'd in a bottle of Lucas pure synthetic oil stabilizer just before driving around to make sure to have good oil.

I just picked up a compression and leak down testers to check the numbers but I am starting to think I might have fried the rings or the valve seals are bad. All that pressure from my stupid mistake over the time I guess is going to screw me over. Can never get a break with this car. I will pull the plugs tonight and see what they look like. It could be the turbo seals which at this point would really like that over the rings or valves.

 

[Bullitt6301]

Update: Pulled plugs and they looked very normal. Look into the cylinders and there is oil on top of the pistons. Everyone of them has a good teaspoon of less on them. Smokes on start up but doesn't smoke when idleing. Starting to say it is valve seals or guides. All that abuse finally caught up. FML!!

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[deebo05]

you sure its not the drain for the turbo? pull off the inlet pipe and see if there is oil in it, or pull intake manifold and look at the port walls and see if they are covered with oil.

 

[Bullitt6301]

The turbo would not be putting oil into the cylinders. It is almost instantly as soon as the car starts. It is either the oil control rings or the valve seals.

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[deebo05]

An improper drain from the turbo will push oil into the cylinders and also out the exhaust, seen it happen many times, I just put a turbowerx pump on and forget about it. You said every cylinder had oil on the piston. It is very unlikely that all your valve seals went at once, unless it was a bad install. These things have high pressure on cold start. If your port walls are covered in oil,its the turbo drain.

 

[Bullitt6301]

Ok. So look at it this way, car has sat for two days and when I drive it home it had been beat on and drive home nice and smooth. Spark plugs are not wet nor covered in black. Pull the plugs look down inside and see the oil on top of the pistons and pistons are very clean. No carbon or burnt oil. Also the oil on the pistons is brown and the oil off the dipstick is almost clear. Brand new oil. I am not opposed to checking the drain but it has never been an issue. The fact that i have been previously pressurizing the crankcase leads me to believe that the valve seals finally gave out.

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[Bullitt6301]

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[Bullitt6301]

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[Bullitt6301]

It is hard to tell but the oil in the cylinder is just in the dishs of the piston tops and a bit sitting on the low points.

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[Bullitt6301]

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[deebo05]

I understand what your saying, everything you have posted leads me to think its a drain problem. I would pull the inlet pipe and/or the intake manifold and if it looks like the pics its a drain problem. This is less than 10 miles of driving on fresh heads. Smoked on cold start, went away when hot.

 

[Bullitt6301]

Just not quite following you here. You are saying that oil is getting forced up into the intake because a bad turbo oil drain? I am not running a PCV setup anymore and I would say my next step is to pull the intake manifold off and inspect the valves. If they are wet with oil then I am assuming that oil is from the guides or seals. If not wet then it would be rings or something else. Correct?

This is a built motor with FRPP heads. It has roughly 6,000 miles on it maybe a tad more.

 

[deebo05]

yes, that's exactly what im saying. That car is vented to atmosphere also. no pcv. All that oil was blowing past the turbos rings/seals into the I/C into the intake mani down into the combustion chamber. All the exhaust pipes were coated with oil also.

 

[Bullitt6301]

Ok well I will take a look at the piping on both sides. I hope it is that easy. The car doesn't smoke at all just driving around normal and WOT I have been told it smokes a bit. But it is also rich so hard to tell other than I cannot see any apparent smoke. Mainly start up and low rpm blips.

 

[Bullitt6301]

I will have a compression tester and leak down tester in the mail. Be here Thursday to further determine the health of the engine.

 

[sportinawoody]

MMR Built 4.6 3v theres your problem

 

[Bullitt6301]

Well you know man the motor has been great up until this point if they are shit engines they wouldn't be in business. I could sit here and hate on business but I would rather troubleshoot instead of bashing on companies. So constructive comments help, bashing companies does not.

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[Bullitt6301]

So, did a compression check on all the cylinders. Now I did this on a cold engine because I took it apart then remebered it is supposed to be warm. I got readings of 170-175 on all cylinders. It took about 5-7 turns to each cylinder. Also, the other day I took out the restictor on the turbo and drive it around to see if any difference. It was smoking more but I was romping on it to see what the difference would be. I put the restrictor back in and it went back to like before. Some smoke but does not smoke under boost but smokes the worst engine braking down to a stop. I removed the piping on the turbo and did not see or feel any oil in the cold or hot side. Plugs still look rather decent. I have the leak down tester but it was going to require more disassembly to roll the engine over by hand and I didn't have time today.

I re-checked the oil level and it has seemed to have burned maybe a quarter of a quart. But is still close to the full mark. My hot oil pressure at idle is 20's and the driving is 50-60's and I have the FRPP high volume pump. Cold start is between 75-85. I am running castrol edge full synthetic 5w-20 with a quart of Lucas full synthetic oil stabilzer. I have not change my oil type ever since the engine got broke in on conventional oil. I think the oil rings might be worn or gunked up.

I turned the boost down to 10psi and it still pulls like crazy so I don't believe this compression ring issue. Still could be valve seals.

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[Bullitt6301]

Alright so after some more time the smoking has kinda slowed down. I was was noticing that when I really load the motor hard it will bog a bit in boost and burn oil. Now I have basically concluded it is a ring issue. The compression check still came back all 170's. I believe that the oil rings are fried. This sucks. Because the only way to fix this is to pull it all out and rebuild the rings and seals. Damn.

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