Street Touring Pony (STP) - It's here!

[Sky Render]

Don't understand street tires? Lol wut? Maybe because not everyone can afford to blow several grand in Hoosiers every year?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

[claudermilk]

The Fastrack covers the '15 Mustang & Camaro:

Some members will note that the 2015+ Camaro and Mustang are not included. The STAC and SEB are not planning
on including these cars in the first year. After some time and performance data are available they may be considered
if appropriate.

So, it's deliberate that they didn't list them for the first year.

Anyway:

Nice timing since they are looking at putting Boxsters & similar into STU. That will make things so much better for the S197 in the class...

So if I'm reading right, either in STU or the new STP class it's 11" wheels all around max? Then tire max is 285 front, 315 rear (for S197 chassis)?

 

[jraskell]

So if I'm reading right, either in STU or the new STP class it's 11" wheels all around max? Then tire max is 285 front, 315 rear (for S197 chassis)?

I read it as 285 all around for IRS based cars and 315 all around for SRA based cars

 

[Whiskey11]

I read it as 285 all around for IRS based cars and 315 all around for SRA based cars

This is how I interpreted it.

 

[csamsh]

I read it as 285 all around for IRS based cars and 315 all around for SRA based cars

Me as well

 

[Mark Aubele]

Don't understand street tires? Lol wut? Maybe because not everyone can afford to blow several grand in Hoosiers every year?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk

I have been running Hoosiers and V710s for over 10 years and have bought exactly two sets new. Just bought a new set of A7s, and have a used set of R6s for track stuff or events I don't find "worthy" of ruining the A7s. I mainly hillclimb and run TTs, but at the top levels you will find guys replacing street tires nearly as often as the Hoosiers. So no, I don't understand the desire to run street tires on RWD pony cars.

Most guys are running scrubs at local events, for every guy that buys six new sets of Hoosiers a year you have 10 that do similar to what I do, although you better have stickers at Nats if that's your thing I imagine. Only events I really run are local ones for the most part.

Is there even a real street tire available? Aren't you still stuck with Rivals in real sizes (if you can even get them)?

 

[Whiskey11]

I have been running Hoosiers and V710s for over 10 years and have bought exactly two sets new. Just bought a new set of A7s, and have a used set of R6s for track stuff or events I don't find "worthy" of ruining the A7s. I mainly hillclimb and run TTs, but at the top levels you will find guys replacing street tires nearly as often as the Hoosiers. So no, I don't understand the desire to run street tires on RWD pony cars.

Most guys are running scrubs at local events, for every guy that buys six new sets of Hoosiers a year you have 10 that do similar to what I do, although you better have stickers at Nats if that's your thing I imagine. Only events I really run are local ones for the most part.

Is there even a real street tire available? Aren't you still stuck with Rivals in real sizes (if you can even get them)?

Good for you. There are two National events in my region (Spring Nationals and Nationals). In order for me to be COMPETITIVE on Hoosiers I need TWO sets of $1700 A7's ever year. One fresh set before Spring Nats and one before Nats because we have that many events between those two events to wear out the tires to the point where they may be fine for local events, but they aren't for National events.

That's a problem.

Street tires? My last set of RS3's lasted me two years of competitive runs. Thats between 150 and 200 runs. I'd get about 40 out of a set of A6's or A7's.

 

[Mark Aubele]

I thought you weren't able to be competitive in STU? You really think you can be nationally competitive on one set of street tires a year? Good, we will just create classes for each and every situation now, makes total sense. Guys cry no matter what, I'm sure there will be interclass turmoil in STP just like every other class.

 

[csamsh]

There are three kinds of people in the world....

 

[Whiskey11]

I thought you weren't able to be competitive in STU? You really think you can be nationally competitive on one set of street tires a year? Good, we will just create classes for each and every situation now, makes total sense. Guys cry no matter what, I'm sure there will be interclass turmoil in STP just like every other class.

Competitive as in, my location in PAX relative to other people whom are known quantities didn't change much beyond the standard day/course differences. It's not like I went from averaging 10th overall in PAX to averaging 25th from one year to the next.

I most definitely do think I'll be Nationally competitive on one set of street tires a year. Even the newest crop of 200 TW street tires are not cycling out after a hundred or more runs and are still competitive. The only reason it wouldn't be for more is because the current street tire market is changing relatively quickly. We just went through a major change over in the current market of street tires. I doubt we'll see much in the way of a massive overhaul of street tires in the next few years like we did for this year.

 

[Mark Aubele]

If they get rid of Cam as csmash suggested I can see the validity of it.

 

[white86hatch]

I have been running Hoosiers and V710s for over 10 years and have bought exactly two sets new. Just bought a new set of A7s, and have a used set of R6s for track stuff or events I don't find "worthy" of ruining the A7s. I mainly hillclimb and run TTs, but at the top levels you will find guys replacing street tires nearly as often as the Hoosiers. So no, I don't understand the desire to run street tires on RWD pony cars.

Most guys are running scrubs at local events, for every guy that buys six new sets of Hoosiers a year you have 10 that do similar to what I do, although you better have stickers at Nats if that's your thing I imagine. Only events I really run are local ones for the most part.

Is there even a real street tire available? Aren't you still stuck with Rivals in real sizes (if you can even get them)?

So you have 3 sets of wheels and tires? Or you swap between a7's and r6's between events? Either way the attraction for most is only needing 1 set of tires for everything( if the car isn't a daily) or only needing 1 extra set of wheels and tires for events. I don't understand your opposition to stp. Other than you're a Hoosier loving ESP for life type. Which is perfectly fine and I'm glad it works for you. For the rest of us there's street tires. That's one more set that'll be available.....

 

[Mark Aubele]

So you have 3 sets of wheels and tires? Or you swap between a7's and r6's between events? Either way the attraction for most is only needing 1 set of tires for everything( if the car isn't a daily) or only needing 1 extra set of wheels and tires for events. I don't understand your opposition to stp. Other than you're a Hoosier loving ESP for life type. Which is perfectly fine and I'm glad it works for you. For the rest of us there's street tires. That's one more set that'll be available.....

Only have one set of race wheels. Drive the car nearly every day on the stock awful PZeros. I do have access to a tire machine, if I don't have the time to switch them I also have a local guy that does it for 20 bucks. It isn't like I swap them every weekend.

Typically I go through 3 sets of scrub A6s a year, but I am mostly hillclimbing. When I am autocrossing I am usually driving someone else's car. I ran 2 events on R6s and one to scrub in the A7s for the Pagoda Hillclimb this weekend. I get scrubs anywhere from free to like 400 a set from Berget.

I like to go fast, and I have zero desire to race a 420whp Mustang on street tires, so yes, I am very biased.

If you are willing to leave a few tenths on the table, running the scrubs aren't expensive at all. There are guys running street tires spending ridiculous money just like the Hoosier guys.

 

[I am Legend]

After having a few days to think it over, I'm not sure how I feel about STP. Since the inception of CAM I wasn't on board. I called it the sand box "here kids go play over there while us REAL sports car compete in real SCCA classes". I also said from the start, and truly feel that CAM will have a major reset pulling back on the unlimited this, unlimited that. Ive been running that class and would like to see it to completion at Nationals.

When I heard about STP I too said "Finally a touring class with all the right rules". Then I started to think, how just a few years ago I was completely fed up trying to build to SCCA rules with a Mustang. Hey look at my new relo brackets...ah wait, hey look at my big wheels...ah never mind. Luckily they fixed a lot of that: diff bushings and mounting, relocation brackets, bigger wheels have been addressed.

Building for CAM though allows me to build a car that I want to build vs street touring rules. I started a CAM spoiler, was working on a functional diffuser, can add an aftermarket steering wheel, can keep my rear seat delete. All of that makes for a more rounded car for me for use for AutoX as well as other events like HPDE, or one offs like Good Guys or Optima, and be semi competitive there.

Ultimatly I will probably end up in STP if it comes around but I'm not feeling gung-ho about it...

 

[csamsh]

Jon you should go to nationals and do the provisional thing this year...put your seats in and try it out. I bet you could do pretty well

 

[white86hatch]

Jon you should go to nationals and do the provisional thing this year...put your seats in and try it out. I bet you could do pretty well

Before people have time to test and optimize.... I agree. That is if he can even get new tires by then thanks bfg!!!!!

 

[Whiskey11]

More info:
http://www.solomatters.com/November_2015_fastrack_preview

STP Supplemental Class:

The STP Supplemental class will be created effective 10/20/2015 (the expected publication date of the November Fastrack). Competitors are reminded that the SEB has the power to create supplemental classes without BOD approval and that supplemental classes do not follow the same 'rules season' established classes do, so its possible that these rules may receive further tweaks as we gather experience with the concept.
Major changes since the published proposal include the addition of the 2010-2014 1LE Camaro, 2015 – 2016 Mustang, and '79-'93 Mustangs with fuel injection. The entire proposal with these updates is published here for reference:
Effective immediately add the following new class, designated STP, for inclusion as a supplemental class for all national level solo events and optional inclusion in regional events. The allowances will mirror those in the Street Touring category, with the following additions:
Tires:
STP, Independent Rear Suspension: 285 mm maximum width
STP, Live Axle Rear Suspension: 315 mm maximum width
Wheels:
STP, Independent Rear Suspension: 10" Maximum Width
STP, Live Axle Rear Suspension: 11" Maximum Width
Differentials:
May use any mechanical LSD unit
Eligible Vehicles:
Chevrolet Camaro (2010 - 2014) (SS, V6, 1LE)
Chevrolet Camaro (1993 - 2002) (SS, Z28, V6)
Chevrolet Camaro (1982 - 1992) (N/A, fuel injected) (excluding 1LE)
Dodge Challenger (2008 - 2015) (N/A)
Dodge Charger (2006 - 2015) (N/A)
Ford Mustang (2015-2016) (2.3T, V6, GT)
Ford Mustang (2005 - 2014) (GT, V6)
Ford Mustang (1994 - 2004) (GT, V6)
Ford Mustang (1979 - 1993) (N/A, fuel injected)
Pontiac Firebird (1993 - 2002) (LT1, LS1, V6)
Pontiac Firebird (1982 - 1992) (N/A, fuel injected) (excluding GTA and Formula)
American RWD V8 powered sedans, must be naturally aspirated with a wheelbase greater than 100" and a listed curb weight greater than 3200#, NOC (not eligible for national level competition)

 

[jraskell]

Now I just need to figure out how to get more Pony cars to come race here in New England Region. Only reason CAM has had more than a couple cars running this year is because NER still allows the vettes to run CAM.

 

[Mark Aubele]

http://m.tirerack.com/tires/TireResultsServlet?tab=ALL&width=315/&ratio=30&diameter=18&zipCode=#0

Someone explain the cost savings of STP for me again?

The only thing this class ends up being is ESP on street tires with less fun. Or CAM without the fun.

 

[csamsh]

God Damn.

The Rival S has 100 competitive runs. The A7 has 40.

315 Rival S costs $340. 315 A7 costs $380.

$3.40 per run for Rival S.

$9.50 per run for A7

It's not that complicated.

Also remember, some people like running on street tires, don't want to trailer, don't want a tire trailer, don't want to have to change tires at events, etc.

If you're at the pointy end of the grid, "tire cost" is not a thing anyway.

Also, for the pointy end of the ESP grid is now your car has a multi-thousand dollar flare-job, and needs to be running even more expensive 335 fronts and 345 rears. Fender mods are not permitted in STP so there's 5 or 6k off the top that you don't have to do to win.

I feel like I've made this post before.