Supercharger or turbo setup

[Sijaka]

Hi guys, I'm planing to go either supercharger or turbo on my 05 stang.
At the moment i'm leaning on a turbo setup as it'll probably be cheaper for me. Shipping is a bitch when you live in norway.

The build will be two stage I think, the goal for this winter in aprox. 450rwhp and next winter I'll get forged internals and will be aiming for 6-700rwhp.

The way I'm thinking on going with the build is to get my hands on a turbo (recommendations are verry welcome) and some blank exhaust manifoild plates to weld a front facing turbo manifoild out of.
Then build the rest of the exhaust lines and coldside afterwards. I'm not to shabby with a tig welder so I gues I'll be fine with doing the work myself.

The supercharger option i'm thinking on is a dob 450 kit, but then I'll probably stay at 450rwhp.

The car will be my daily, but I have a f250 to get me moving while working on the stang.
I don't track my car as we dont have any tracks where I live, but the local airstrip is open for drag race once a year so that's an event I wont miss.
The stang is an auto if that has some some peos and cons with supersharger or turbo

Budgetwise i'll be good for up to 5k usd, but I can stretch that if I get someting good going

Typicaly shipping on a kit will be 500$ to 2k$ this is why a complete kit will kill my budget.

Lastly my questions, what toubo is a good choice? Where can I find blank exhaust manifoilds, what advantages and disadvantages will a twin turbo setup be compared to a single turbo?

 

[46addict]

S&H uses Comp turbos in the kits they sell, so I would trust their decision and look at something from their line.

Superchargers are easier to install though since there won't be much fabricating involved, if at all. Even with the parasitic drag, many people on this forum have made more than the power goal you're aiming for on centrifugal and TVS setups.
You could start out with the DOB manifold and have room to grow once you upgrade the internals.

 

[drive_55_not]

A single turbo would likely be your most economical choice, especially if you can fab your own piping.

For 700rwhp you can use the stock cast manifold and a merge pipe to supply the turbo. There's a cheap hot side kit being sold on FeeBay that sez it ships Worldwide.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/05-10-Musta...44:m:mLlLJcn9o0AqjedIF6UZjjA&vxp=mtr#shpCntId

The only reason to go twins is to eliminate turbo lag, or just the bling of having twins [who doesn't like twins??]

Generally lag's not an issue til you start using a turbo capable of 1000+hp. At that point, fitting a large single will also start being a problem.

As far as Twins go ,, I've been looking at the Garrett twin kit with GT3076 turbos, I've priced that at 3300 shipped here in the US.

You have to fab your coldside piping, but that kit should keep you in your budget.

http://www.atpturbo.com/root/releases/GarrettMustangKit.pdf

DIY header flanges are also available,

http://stainlessworks.net/2005-4-6l-3-valve-ford-1-75-round-port-exhaust-flanges

A NOVI or Paxton will also support 600-700rwhp but unless you get it used, cost more than a turbo.

>> The stang is an auto if that has some some pros and cons with supersharger or turbo <<

The 5R55 is somewhat of a weak link, some die at 400hp, some live long and prosper at 600.

As for your budget, don't forget you'll need new injectors and fuel pump upgrades ..


.

 

[roberts]

Up to u..
Turbo doesnt take power to make power
BLower takes power to make power

 

[ponys197]

The 5 to 3 downshift is what generally kills the 5R55S with boosted appications. Don't make it do that on the street and it should live at the track.

 

[eighty6gt]

Get a DOB system and leave the stock exhaust in place.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Sijaka]

What kind of upgrades is recomended for the tranny to make it hold?

Also what kind of (brands) of forged internals are good?

If you post links I'd be happy

And thanks for the replys ^^,
I have a ac/dc tigwelder so aluminum is not a problem to weld for the coldside.

I already have a bap, but havent gotten injectors yet as i've not setteled on hp range.

 

[05sonic4.6]

modularmotorsportsracing.com has some nice options for forging your rotating assembly they sell nice kits for a good price. I'd personally go turbo, I had a procharger on my car and swapped over to a turbo only after a couple months. The power in the mid range alone is so much better and with the turbo I'm making more power on less boost. They're just more efficient. the only trade off is they can be a pain to install but once your past that it's all smiles.

 

[01yellerCobra]

modularmotorsportsracing.com has some nice options for forging your rotating assembly they sell nice kits for a good price. I'd personally go turbo, I had a procharger on my car and swapped over to a turbo only after a couple months. The power in the mid range alone is so much better and with the turbo I'm making more power on less boost. They're just more efficient. the only trade off is they can be a pain to install but once your past that it's all smiles.

I've been wanting to do this for a while.....

Fuck MMR.

 

[skaarlaj]

An aftermarket torque converter will need to be addressed if you want to be in boost out of the hole for your drag-strip outings. If you're not too worried about launching hard, your stock converter will be fine.

 

[46addict]

What kind of upgrades is recomended for the tranny to make it hold?

Also what kind of (brands) of forged internals are good?

If you post links I'd be happy

And thanks for the replys ^^,
I have a ac/dc tigwelder so aluminum is not a problem to weld for the coldside.

I already have a bap, but havent gotten injectors yet as i've not setteled on hp range.

Manley makes good off the shelf pistons and rods. You could also buy 2013+ Boss 302 rods for half the cost (USD) of aftermarket H beams if you are planning to stay under 700whp. I would avoid MMR as said before. Their quality control leaves some to be desired.

As for fueling, you will need more than just a BAP spliced into the stock fuel pump to make anything north of 500whp. I'm not a fan of BAPs because they're just band aid fixes to compensate for an under-performing system. You will need a twin fuel pump hat like the one from a GT500 and run twin 340lph pumps with 80lb injectors (or ID850?) depending on if you want to continue using gasoline or switch to ethanol. If ethanol is available, it would be safer to make 700+whp on ethanol but you will need at least 1.5 times the fuel capacity than you would on 93 octane gas.

I would post links to vendors but I'm not sure if any of them ship to Europe. So you're on your own there.

 

[Sijaka]

Thans for your opinions
I've checked out mmr, it looks okay on the site, but bad expeiences are bad ones non the less, so maybe I'll try to avoid them.

I found an interesting item tough a stroker kit witch converts the 4.6 to a 5.0, any toughts on this? What can be expected porerwise if i do someting like this an stay n/a, supourting mods that will be needed and so on.

The bap was an impulse buy, got one at a great price so i just bought it.
I know the fuelsystem will need to be upgraded, i just need to know where I'll be before I start buying things.

The lowest quality fuel i can buy where i live is 95oct and the best is 98oct, but I'll get the tune done for the 95 as 98 is not always available, especially if I'll go on longer drives.
We don't have ethanol, but if we had i'd go for that.

Shipping should not be to much of a problem, I have a freight forwarder in the us who takes care of that, but it's a bit pricey.

As the dragstrip is a one day event each year I don't worry to much about launches, if there is an advantage to a higher stall speed for my daily driving it will be another matter and i'll take it into account.

With forging I know I'll blow my budget, but if it's for safety it's okay.

I forgot to say that i have bbk short headers on the car, any suggestion on how they will do with the extra power?

 

[46addict]

Just to be clear when I say 93 octane I mean the US method of measuring octane which is RON+MON/2. If they go by research octane in Norway, 95-98 octane translates to 91-93 motor octane.

 

[BruceH]

Thans for your opinions
I've checked out mmr, it looks okay on the site, but bad expeiences are bad ones non the less, so maybe I'll try to avoid them.

I found an interesting item tough a stroker kit witch converts the 4.6 to a 5.0, any toughts on this? What can be expected porerwise if i do someting like this an stay n/a, supourting mods that will be needed and so on.

The bap was an impulse buy, got one at a great price so i just bought it.
I know the fuelsystem will need to be upgraded, i just need to know where I'll be before I start buying things.

The lowest quality fuel i can buy where i live is 95oct and the best is 98oct, but I'll get the tune done for the 95 as 98 is not always available, especially if I'll go on longer drives.
We don't have ethanol, but if we had i'd go for that.

Shipping should not be to much of a problem, I have a freight forwarder in the us who takes care of that, but it's a bit pricey.

As the dragstrip is a one day event each year I don't worry to much about launches, if there is an advantage to a higher stall speed for my daily driving it will be another matter and i'll take it into account.

With forging I know I'll blow my budget, but if it's for safety it's okay.

I forgot to say that i have bbk short headers on the car, any suggestion on how they will do with the extra power?

I'd stay away from a stroker with a 4.6 bore. With forced induction you will be able to make all the power you want with a stock crank. A stroker n/a won't add much power because it doesn't overcome the shrouded bore a stock 4.6 has. The shrouded bore means that the bore is too small to take full advantage of the valve area. It's hard to make decent power n/a with a 4.6 unless you go to a larger bore.

I'd also stay away from MMR. They are a company who buys a good reputation by sponsoring web sites. They get bad press removed due to the sponsor status. This is one of the few Mustang forums that will not bow to sponsors who fuck people over.

As far as the bap it is a solution that works but upgrading the pump/pumps is a better solution imo. A bap with a stock pump and the right injectors will support over 500rwhp safely, I wouldn't get rid of the bap just yet.

If I was in your shoes I'd look at the DOB kit. It's going to get you where you want to be for now. If you decide to add forged rods and pistons in the future then the DOB will be ready to add more power with either a smaller pulley for more boost or a TVS supercharger.

 

[Marble]

The suggestion that I give to people who do not know much about this modding stuff is to not recreate the wheel. Don't forge your own path. Find a car with the combination you like and copy the Crap out of it. It ends up being cheaper and usually a faster build, along with avoiding some of the " issues" people run into.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Hi guys, I'm planing to go either supercharger or turbo on my 05 stang.
At the moment i'm leaning on a turbo setup as it'll probably be cheaper for me. Shipping is a bitch when you live in norway.

The build will be two stage I think, the goal for this winter in aprox. 450rwhp and next winter I'll get forged internals and will be aiming for 6-700rwhp.

The way I'm thinking on going with the build is to get my hands on a turbo (recommendations are verry welcome) and some blank exhaust manifoild plates to weld a front facing turbo manifoild out of.
Then build the rest of the exhaust lines and coldside afterwards. I'm not to shabby with a tig welder so I gues I'll be fine with doing the work myself.

The supercharger option i'm thinking on is a dob 450 kit, but then I'll probably stay at 450rwhp.

The car will be my daily, but I have a f250 to get me moving while working on the stang.
I don't track my car as we dont have any tracks where I live, but the local airstrip is open for drag race once a year so that's an event I wont miss.
The stang is an auto if that has some some peos and cons with supersharger or turbo

Budgetwise i'll be good for up to 5k usd, but I can stretch that if I get someting good going

Typicaly shipping on a kit will be 500$ to 2k$ this is why a complete kit will kill my budget.

Lastly my questions, what toubo is a good choice? Where can I find blank exhaust manifoilds, what advantages and disadvantages will a twin turbo setup be compared to a single turbo?

Read this:

http://departmentofboost.com/tech/boosting_3v.htm


Here is my short version on turbo's.

-From a "on paper" perspective I love them. But execution is the key. A OEM system like I have on my F-150 EcoBoost is awesome. But that is because Ford designed it as a system (everything about the motor, packaging, etc). It's pretty much bulletproof. No one can do durability testing like the OEM's do. Aftermarket stuff runs from "well, it fits" to "nicely done". But none of them are OEM quality.

-On the 3v specifically (and a few other applications) I can't live with the loss of ground clearance most of the kits sacrifice.

-I don't like to addition of all the extra heat under the hood (which is already way too hot on a S197)

-As a designer/engineer/guy who actually works on stuff the additional failure points, hose/tube connections, valves/springs/controllers/etc are not at the top of my list of "good things". There are a lot of very small potential failure points with a turbo system you don't have with a blower.

-Some of these potential small failure points can lead to catastrophic failure. Boost bypass sticks? Motor over boosts? Time for a new motor.

-And when things get turned way up (this will apply to very few) the air to air intercoolers that you get with turbo's will simply not be able to keep up. There simply isn't enough room in the front of the car. When maximizing the available space a air to water system (found on PD blowers) will be able to extract more heat from the intake charge. It's basic physics. Yes, you can convert a turbo over the air to water (almost all the fast drag cars do). But it's huge money and because the intercooler is not in the valley of the motor you're still going to be space limited.

-And lastly tubing, piping, hoses, etc drive me bonkers when it comes to working on things. I'm all about KISS (keep it simple stupid).

Again, I have no issues with turbo's if they're done correctly. If there was a EcoBoost 5.0 from Ford I would be the first in line to get one.