The Great Oil Debate

[HellsBells]

Really? I wasnt aware of that...

Me neither since I've been a big platinum fan for a while and when Ultra came out, I wanted to try it but turns out it might not be as good as they say.

I'm running my first panful of redline right now! Not putting enough miles on the car to get it changed yet but coming up on 6 months. I think I'll just change it and get the oil analyzed. I've been told Redline, while good, has very low levels of detergents (TBN test) for the type of oil that it is. That's my biggest concern at the moment is that it doesn't actually make it to 5000 miles. In contrast, the pennzoil platinum does 7500-10000 easy.

 

[Speed+Clinic]

Also check the phosphorus content, much of the oils have been reformulated to have a lower phosphorus content since it is harmful to the catalitic converters. Safest way is to do an oil analysis.

 

[Fallenauthority]

I have seen with my own eyes cracked center housings out of a subaru 2.5 engine and if im not mistaken the other one I've seen is from volvo as well. You've never had a spun journal bearing on a turbo? A screwed up BB? Water cooling wont save your turbo if you turn it off immediately after hitting the car unless you have an electronic water pump that is automatically controlled. Dont know I just prefer not to add any other system that has the posibility of a failure as well. If you are getting some stupid long term heat from the turbo it could be from over fuelling, restrictive turbo outlet flanges, restrictive exhausts or just plain outside the efficiency range.

You are talking about a turbo that is oil and water cooled, meaning thinner walls in the casting between water jackets in the CHRA and the oil lubricated portion of the CHRA, I have seen cracked CHRAs on DSM's as well. However the Comp Oiless turbo's only have water jackets and a sealed bearing system, meaning thicker casting around said water jackets.
Water cooling is a HUGE factor in reliability, hence why manufacturers run water cooled OEM turbo's.

Im 100% sure I have worked on turbos more than you. How many have you even ported? changed out? Stock App etc etc.

Running a bullseye s380R, the only option that has both sides cnc'd. Atleast it was when I bought it, The GTX series has only one side billet/hta design the hot side is still the old technology POS. And some Food For Thought, the VTG line will be made public shortly.

Good for you on working on more turbo's than I. Doesnt mean you dont have ignorant points of view that may be jaded by your personal beliefs.
I have ported probably in the range of 50 turbo's. Changed out probably in the same range of 50ish. I come from a heavy background in DSM's, been around the block as far as turbocharged performance vehicles are concerned.
And some food for thought, even the GTX series from Garrett are watercooled, at least the ones I have seen are.

 

[Speed+Clinic]

You are talking about a turbo that is oil and water cooled, meaning thinner walls in the casting between water jackets in the CHRA and the oil lubricated portion of the CHRA, I have seen cracked CHRAs on DSM's as well. However the Comp Oiless turbo's only have water jackets and a sealed bearing system, meaning thicker casting around said water jackets.
Water cooling is a HUGE factor in reliability, hence why manufacturers run water cooled OEM turbo's.

Good for you on working on more turbo's than I. Doesnt mean you dont have ignorant points of view that may be jaded by your personal beliefs.
I have ported probably in the range of 50 turbo's. Changed out probably in the same range of 50ish. I come from a heavy background in DSM's, been around the block as far as turbocharged performance vehicles are concerned.
And some food for thought, even the GTX series from Garrett are watercooled, at least the ones I have seen are.

I am talking about oil and water cooled turbos, you are talking about comps oil less turbo that has been on the market less than 2 years and you are already making statements of their reliability...

I am not arguing that water cools better, im just saying that almost 95% of us can get along w/o ever needing the water cooling. Shut the engine after flogging it a couple of times and you will cook it as well.

As far as the GTX series of garrett well, I prefer a small hub on the hot side as well with HTA or ETT, ported housing and a billet wheel to increase the efficiency range and spool up. GTX is only a cold side billet/worked turbo.

 

[GrabberBlue305]

Me neither since I've been a big platinum fan for a while and when Ultra came out, I wanted to try it but turns out it might not be as good as they say.

I'm running my first panful of redline right now! Not putting enough miles on the car to get it changed yet but coming up on 6 months. I think I'll just change it and get the oil analyzed. I've been told Redline, while good, has very low levels of detergents (TBN test) for the type of oil that it is. That's my biggest concern at the moment is that it doesn't actually make it to 5000 miles. In contrast, the pennzoil platinum does 7500-10000 easy.

That is completely wrong about red line. These are large amounts....

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2635056#Post2635056


There are only a few PP and PU oils that are worth the hype, these oils for some reason get sooo much hype and it blows my mind. The Ultra Euro 5w/40 is a damn good oil, I will give it that. The other oils dont give RD a run for the money.

 

[GrabberBlue305]

You can compare RL and RP, and rather go with RL. Zinc and phosp are lower than I thought on the RP.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2331785#Post2331785

 

[GrabberBlue305]

Lots of moly n zinc, i like that.

 

[Corpo]

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-...l-wear-testing-myth-vs-reality-very-long.html

http://www.aa1car.com/library/motor_oil_605.htm

 

[cgc]

I used to run the German Castrol 0w30 in both of my old Cobras....I haven't seen it mentioned in this post anywhere.

Anyone have any good reason not to run it in a DD 2011 in Georgia (hot)?

If not, I'm going to stick with what I've been happy with thus far.

 

[Makdaddy]

The good thing about being 54 is that I have years of experience with motor oils.
My first real good experience was with mobile1
I have have run Mobile 1 10w 30w in all my trucks cars and high performance boats.
for the last 25 years

The research I did some 25 years ago lead to the 10w 30w decision.
Back when everyone was running straight 50 weight in the race cars.
My research showed that thinner synthetic actually cooled the bearing and performed better in extreme applications

I have never looked back.
I have looked at Amsoil and Royal Purple. But I think Ill stay with the Mobile 1

So yes changing to a 5/30 should have issues
in fact i will be running 10/30 in the stang

 

[HellsBells]

The good thing about being 54 is that I have years of experience with motor oils.
My first real good experience was with mobile1
I have have run Mobile 1 10w 30w in all my trucks cars and high performance boats.
for the last 25 years

The research I did some 25 years ago lead to the 10w 30w decision.
Back when everyone was running straight 50 weight in the race cars.
My research showed that thinner synthetic actually cooled the bearing and performed better in extreme applications

I have never looked back.
I have looked at Amsoil and Royal Purple. But I think Ill stay with the Mobile 1

So yes changing to a 5/30 should have issues
in fact i will be running 10/30 in the stang

All I got from this was that you spelled "Mobil 1" wrong and that you're basing your information on 25 year old research.

I don't mean to be rude be this is a good example of using your personal anecdote and limited range empirical evidence. Every motor is different, some motors run better with some oils, others with other oils. Motor oil has also come a long way in terms of formulation as well.

Of course, it may be that you happened to have boats and vehicles that coincidentally all ran great with 10W30 Mobil 1. I'm curious as to what testing you did though. Did you have the oil tested and analyzed for metals, fuel dilution, presence of antifreeze etc?

My point being, I don't think you can say "well I've been using 10W30 Mobil 1 all my life with no issues, therefore every motor should use 10W30 Mobil 1".

 

[KryptonKnight]

Lawd, bitch slap comin through the isp. There that should discourage ya'all from offering up advice in the future.

 

[cgc]

Lawd, bitch slap comin through the isp. There that should discourage ya'all from offering up advice in the future.

Wheeew....so glad you came to the rescue and gave some good input throughout this post.

If it wasn't for you.....wait.....oh....the above is your only contribution to it?

Never mind.

 

[Makdaddy]

All I got from this was that you spelled "Mobil 1"

Of course, it may be that you happened to have boats and vehicles that coincidentally all ran great with 10W30 Mobil 1. I'm curious as to what testing you did though. Did you have the oil tested and analyzed for metals, fuel dilution, presence of antifreeze etc?

My point being, I don't think you can say "well I've been using 10W30 Mobil 1 all my life with no issues, therefore every motor should use 10W30 Mobil 1".

I hate auto correct
I take no offense

You are correct my experience is my experience and no one elses
I hope you didnt get the impression I was trying to come off as an expert
That was not my intention.
Nor was I trying to imply that all situations should run mobil 1
And I never had a failure that would have prompted me to get the oil analyzed.

But with that said at the end of my post I was telling the Op that his choice of weight was fine. and that was the gest of the post.

 

[MikeVistaBlue06]

That's what I use in mine as well. Zinc and phosphorus are very good for bearings but hardly any oils contain much of it because they will both clog cats. That's why it is a "racing"" oil.

hmm im very intersted in this zinc additive in the oil, i kind of want to try some out i see you run 10w40 W/ zinc what brand of oil is it and where are you buying it

Zinc and phosphorous have been in motor oils for years. Castrol came up with it. Valvoline used to call it chemalloy. Pennzoil called it Z-7. It is actually a chemical known as zincdialkyldithiophospate or ZDDP for short.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_dithiophosphate

What is does is prevent wear by chemically hardening steel components. Where it is MOST effective is on camshaft lobes and valve train components where extreme pressure occurs. Old time flat tappet cams must have a shitload of this stuff in the oil to keep from flattening out the cam lobes! Roller cams can get away with less.

Leave it to the EPA to fuck up a good oil additive. JMHO of course.

You can get additives to put this back into the oil if you need it. The molybedum additive you see in oil now is supposed to counteract the reduction in ZDDP in modern oils. That said, if you have a 1963 Ford truck, use DELO-100 diesel oil in it unless you want to fuck up the cam in it!

HTH

Mike

 

[HellsBells]

I hate auto correct
I take no offense

You are correct my experience is my experience and no one elses
I hope you didnt get the impression I was trying to come off as an expert
That was not my intention.
Nor was I trying to imply that all situations should run mobil 1
And I never had a failure that would have prompted me to get the oil analyzed.

But with that said at the end of my post I was telling the Op that his choice of weight was fine. and that was the gest of the post.

I was being facetious about the spelling part

I was really more interested in how you tested bearing temperatures. I'm no expert but I regularly have my used oil analyzed just because I get turned on by numbers.

 

[CCS86]

Any updates? I just swapped to MTG in my 2012, but I'll give it a few hundred miles before I report back.

I was impressed at how clean the factory fluid was at 4200mi. Compared to the rear end fluid which came out pearlescent with metal particulate, the trans fluid looked metal free.

It's worth mentioning that I haven't had any real shifting issues, besides the occasional nibble. No lockouts or grinding. It has been 70*+ every day since I've owned the car (a number of 100*+ days too).

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Amsoil MTG is fine for warm/hot climate cars. The MT-82 will be quieter using it.

Amsoil MTF is the better choice for all climate cars. It will shift in cold weather better than MTG.

 

[KrisR]

Ok fellas. 2011 Coyote engine (not Boss) with a Boss intake manifold and 7500rpm shifts. I am currently using Wal-Mart house brand 10w30 synthetic. In 3000 miles it has not used any and looks clean enough. I feel like I should/could be running something better, but I always feel like I'm wasting my money buying more expensive oil.

Suggestions for a high revving Coyote?

 

[HellsBells]

Looking at the oil tells you nothing. Get a proper used oil analysis and go from there.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/