Thoughts on a Miss fire

[Kev555]

Mine was stock/no tune and it didn't show a code or a light for some reason?

 

[Juice]

Mine was stock/no tune and it didn't show a code or a light for some reason?

It has to exceed the threshold for misfire counts to set a light.

 

[Kev555]

It has to exceed the threshold for misfire counts to set a light.

That explains it then Juice as I could just about feel it under load.

 

[whitmanink]

It must set code(s) if its misfiring. Unless misfire detection had been tuned out.
BTW, is Miss Fire cute?

I heard she's a turd
I have a lito tune .. id have to ask him if he did

 

[StockishS197]

I heard she's a turd
I have a lito tune .. id have to ask him if he did

Litos tunes don’t disable misfire monitoring/CEL.

 

[whitmanink]

Litos tunes don’t disable misfire monitoring/CEL.

yea he just got back to me saying none were,,
im gonna log and send it to him..

i wish i had the tools to keep checking and troubleshooting , but unfortunately i have to wait on the mail and that is however long it takes ,

so until then all i can do is use what i got to see if i can find the gremlin,
im curious tho on what the compression will be on the driver side head,

if that checks out , then at least i know im not chasing a ghost ..

maybe lito can see something on a log

 

[mbergthold]

Hey guys .
Got my engine back together and started today .
It idled fine . And after letting it sit and idle for ten minutes and then shutting it off .
Started it again , let it idle about 5 minutes..
Shut it off ,
Then about an hour later I started it up and too it out and it runs fun untill I give it about 60% throttle. Then it starts missing or stumble..
Pretty much the exact same thing I had before I pulled and put a new head on. ..
It feels like it's the driver side .. no cel codes ..
That side has new plugs and. Coil packs..

Just wanna pick some minds and see what you guys come up with.

Thanks and cheers

Sounds exactly like what I had happen after a reman'd trans was installed - my Autel analyzer said the O2 sensor in bank 1 exhaust manifold was bad. Since the car is 20yo, I opted to replace all 4 sensors. If you don't have a good analyzer, it'd be a good idea to get one. DTC's don't always trigger the check engine light.

 

[whitmanink]

Sounds exactly like what I had happen after a reman'd trans was installed - my Autel analyzer said the O2 sensor in bank 1 exhaust manifold was bad. Since the car is 20yo, I opted to replace all 4 sensors. If you don't have a good analyzer, it'd be a good idea to get one. DTC's don't always trigger the check engine light.

Yea I have a thinkdag2 with. The ford subscription so it's pretty comprehensive.. maybe not as far as forscan but it can read pending codes and sync new keys instead of a locksmith , live data ect ect..

I think my tune has my 02 turned off yet from when it was straightl piped ..

So I'm not sure if that would still effect it..
But none the less I can check today when I data log for lito

 

[Kev555]

Yea I have a thinkdag2 with. The ford subscription so it's pretty comprehensive.. maybe not as far as forscan but it can read pending codes and sync new keys instead of a locksmith , live data ect ect..

I think my tune has my 02 turned off yet from when it was straightl piped ..

So I'm not sure if that would still effect it..
But none the less I can check today when I data log for lito

i have a thinkdiag bluetooth and they are a class bit of kit for the money even though you sometimes need to repurchase a licence in two years

 

[GlassTop09]

I just find it odd that no misfires are being detected...
I still think it's a sensor or electrical...

I'm attaching this FoMoCo 2007 MY OBDII Summary sheet below to help you to better understand why you're seeing what you're seeing concerning the misfire monitor showing no last counts......what most of you are looking at to determine # of cyl misfires.

From my intuition, your car is a 07 MY & is why I've attached this FoMoCo OBDII Summary for a Ford 07 MY vehicle (includes all 07 S197's.....).

Go to pg 15 thru 16 of this report & read it all.............this is Ford explaining how the Spanish Oaks PCM detects & records misfires........and more importantly, what 1 HAS to do\perform once the batt has been disconnected OR the PCM's KAM gets reset (cleared) to RECALIBRATE the CKP sensor to trigger wheel so PCM can know the difference between a crank accel velocity pattern under load vs a crank decel velocity pattern under full DFCO operation BEFORE the PCM will start RECORDING misfires to Mode 6..........

This recalibration routine (60\40 Misfire Monitor recalibration) is built into the Spanish Oaks PCM calibration thus you don't need a separate tool to do this..........like all Ford vehicles >2010 do, but you DO need to perform this as it is laid out in this summary.

To help shorten this for you.............the 1st time you accel past 60 MPH in either 4th or 5th gear (manual) or D for autos (I'd disable overdrive prior so trans will stop in 4th gear.....), take your foot off APP & let engine coast & enter DFCO then DON'T touch the APP, brake pedal (auto or manual) or clutch pedal\gear shift (manual only) again until the vehicle MPH drops below 40 MPH then use the APP only & accel back above 60 MPH then repeat the prior instructions.........do this for a minimum of 3 consecutive times for Spanish Oaks PCM to complete this & save the learned CKP to trigger wheel pattern in the onboard AICE chip......then the Spanish Oaks PCM will start recording misfires into Mode 6 thus will be saved. This version I have found works the best & will cleanly complete every time it is done as explained.

For a manual trans (my car is a manual), I've found this works better\cleaner in 4th gear than 5th gear, even though 5th gear imparts more load on engine during this procedure.

Note: this is best done using a very remote stretch of road w\ very little traffic to interfere w\ procedure application..........so be advised.

I have a LOT of datalogs that will clearly demonstrate\ have recorded this showing the Spanish Oaks PCM not recording a single misfire event during the initial datalog drive cycle post KAM reset from tune reflash.......until after I've performed this procedure..........thus I know of what I say here.

If this isn't done, the Spanish Oaks PCM will only show all 0's for misfire counts........thus will never show any MILs for misfires...........until this procedure is completed & pattern is saved.

This is the main reason why you're not seeing misfires at this time..........you haven't done this recalibration yet.

Anyone that tries to tell you that this procedure is fully automated thus you don't need to do anything post batt disconnect or KAM reset.........is not exactly telling you the truth.


Now..................what work did you just finished doing..........with the batt disconnected while doing it?

This is showing to not be well understood among the community...............I have posted about this several times in other threads (w\ the link to fordmotorcraftservices.com provided & several copies of various MY Ford OBDII Summary sheets as well........like this 1.......), but the message is not getting learned\received.

Hope this helps you.

 

[whitmanink]

I'm attaching this FoMoCo 2007 MY OBDII Summary sheet below to help you to better understand why you're seeing what you're seeing concerning the misfire monitor showing no last counts......what most of you are looking at to determine # of cyl misfires.

From my intuition, your car is a 07 MY & is why I've attached this FoMoCo OBDII Summary for a Ford 07 MY vehicle (includes all 07 S197's.....).

Go to pg 15 thru 16 of this report & read it all.............this is Ford explaining how the Spanish Oaks PCM detects & records misfires........and more importantly, what 1 HAS to do\perform once the batt has been disconnected OR the PCM's KAM gets reset (cleared) to RECALIBRATE the CKP sensor to trigger wheel so PCM can know the difference between a crank accel velocity pattern under load vs a crank decel velocity pattern under full DFCO operation BEFORE the PCM will start RECORDING misfires to Mode 6..........

This recalibration routine (60\40 Misfire Monitor recalibration) is built into the Spanish Oaks PCM calibration thus you don't need a separate tool to do this..........like all Ford vehicles >2010 do, but you DO need to perform this as it is laid out in this summary.

To help shorten this for you.............the 1st time you accel past 60 MPH in either 4th or 5th gear (manual) or D for autos (I'd disable overdrive prior so trans will stop in 4th gear.....), take your foot off APP & let engine coast & enter DFCO then DON'T touch the APP, brake pedal (auto or manual) or clutch pedal\gear shift (manual only) again until the vehicle MPH drops below 40 MPH then use the APP only & accel back above 60 MPH then repeat the prior instructions.........do this for a minimum of 3 consecutive times for Spanish Oaks PCM to complete this & save the learned CKP to trigger wheel pattern in the onboard AICE chip......then the Spanish Oaks PCM will start recording misfires into Mode 6 thus will be saved. This version I have found works the best & will cleanly complete every time it is done as explained.

For a manual trans (my car is a manual), I've found this works better\cleaner in 4th gear than 5th gear, even though 5th gear imparts more load on engine during this procedure.

Note: this is best done using a very remote stretch of road w\ very little traffic to interfere w\ procedure application..........so be advised.

I have a LOT of datalogs that will clearly demonstrate\ have recorded this showing the Spanish Oaks PCM not recording a single misfire event during the initial datalog drive cycle post KAM reset from tune reflash.......until after I've performed this procedure..........thus I know of what I say here.

If this isn't done, the Spanish Oaks PCM will only show all 0's for misfire counts........thus will never show any MILs for misfires...........until this procedure is completed & pattern is saved.

This is the main reason why you're not seeing misfires at this time..........you haven't done this recalibration yet.

Anyone that tries to tell you that this procedure is fully automated thus you don't need to do anything post batt disconnect or KAM reset.........is not exactly telling you the truth.


Now..................what work did you just finished doing..........with the batt disconnected while doing it?

This is showing to not be well understood among the community...............I have posted about this several times in other threads (w\ the link to fordmotorcraftservices.com provided & several copies of various MY Ford OBDII Summary sheets as well........like this 1.......), but the message is not getting learned\received.

Hope this helps you.

first ,
thank you for you're informative reply .

i have a 2009 mustang bought off copart (its got 45th anniversary badges on it and the obd11 always read it as a 2009 ) ..

im not sure if any of that matters as when reading the document you posted it states 2006 , but don't mention other years?

 

[Blue03Cobra]

BTW, is Miss Fire cute?

No, she's hot...

 

[whitmanink]

Ok so lito got back to me and had me do a log.
Unfortunately it didn't show anything out of the ordinary..

But today I got my adapter for the compression tester.

My driver side is as follows

5~~ 131
6~~. 132
7~~138
8~~137

..
My passenger side was all over 160

Now that said ..
The adapter i got won't thread all the way down to the prong to seal it..
It only threads about one turn then stops .. and it did that for all 4 cylinders..
Maybe that can be. Bad reading?

Also
Is that compression gonna cause misfires?
I wouldn't think it would .. its not slaving the opposite cylinder ....

But again I'm not sure..

 

[whitmanink]

Ok .
I got the new adapter and altho it don't thread all the way in .. it seemed better ..

I didn't quick cold check .. all cylinders on the driver side are at least 160 to 165 ..

I then quick did cylinder one since it was a cold check and cylinder one was at 160 ...

My next move is to do it hot to verify and then then get the fuel filter and replace the passenger side spark plugs as I didn't do them as I thought the miss was on the driver side...

Not saying it will do much ... But it's something I didn't do

 

[StockishS197]

I don’t know if this has been covered already, but what brand coils and plugs are you using?

 

[whitmanink]

I don’t know if this has been covered already, but what brand coils and plugs are you using?

I've got Amazon knock offs ..
But I put the original coils back on to eliminate that ,, .

That's not to say one is bad as well .. but I think the likelihood of two sets of Amazon and an original Oem set .. I think I can count that out altho I might buy a new set of OEM just cuz I know lol
Than that's eliminated..

 

[whitmanink]

The plugs are the new version of the two piece..
And the driver side head are the motorcraft ones that are recommended.. can't think of the numbers

 

[StockishS197]

The plugs are the new version of the two piece..
And the driver side head are the motorcraft ones that are recommended.. can't think of the numbers

And you are 100% sure the plugs are genuine MCs?

Also, only use MC coils as aftermarket may give a partial misfire but not trigger a code, but something you can definitely feel.

 

[whitmanink]

And you are 100% sure the plugs are genuine MCs?

Also, only use MC coils as aftermarket may give a partial misfire but not trigger a code, but something you can definitely feel.

I can't say the plugs are %100 cuz I got them from Amazon .. some reviews said they were legit and real ..

But I'll go to AutoZone to get these 4 just to be sure

That's on the passager side..

The driver side I got from AutoZone so if assume they are real?

 

[StockishS197]

I can't say the plugs are %100 cuz I got them from Amazon .. some reviews said they were legit and real ..

But I'll go to AutoZone to get these 4 just to be sure

That's on the passager side..

The driver side I got from AutoZone so if assume they are real?

Parts stores are fine. Amazon and EBay are always suspect.