What Do You Think About These LCA's?

[Department Of Boost]

I need some more solid-er LCA's and I just happen to have a set of these that have never been used. If I was buing new I would just go with rod ends and be done with it. But I'm trying to keep my winter budget under control (it's already at 6K yikes!) and these are here. So, thoughts? You guys have more on the ground knowledge than me.

Thanks!

http://www.spohn.net/shop/2005-2008-Ford-Mustang/Suspension/Rear-Lower-Control-Arms/Rear-Lower-Control-Arms-Tubular-Adjustable-with-Del-Sphere-Pivot-Joints.html

Del-Sphere Pivot Joints:

The Spohn Performance Del-Sphere pivot joint solves the shortcomings of the factory rubber and aftermarket polyurethane bushings. Our Del-Sphere pivot joint incorporates a spherical ball which is surrounded by delrin bushing cups.

This combination allows the control arm to articulate like a spherical rod end (28 degrees of available rotation) during cornering but the spherical ball does not allow the bushing to deflect during acceleration. This provides for great straight line traction like polyurethane bushed control arms but remains completely bind free like a spherical rod end during cornering for predictable traction in the corners.

Think of the Del-Sphere pivot joint as a Delrin bushed spherical rod end. After over a year of R&D testing here at Spohn Performance on a streetable spherical joint the Del-Sphere pivot joint is the final result. Designed and manufactured exclusively by Spohn Performance, we have taken street suspension performance to the next level.

Our Del-Sphere pivot joint features a one piece forged and heat treated chrome moly housing, a heat treated and chrome plated chrome moly spherical ball, Delrin bushing cups, heat treated retainer washer and snap ring, heat treated and chrome plated chrome moly threaded adjuster ring, an external grease fitting and a beautiful silver zinc plated housing finish. The Delrin bushing cups absorb shock and road noise so you get the quiet and smooth ride of a bushing as well as 28 degrees of rotation!
Our Del-Sphere pivot joints will always ship to you fully assembled, however, we also offer an optional adjusting tool that will allow you to do two things. First, you can disassemble the Del-Sphere pivot joint for cleaning, inspection, etc.

Second, you can adjust the amount of friction on the spherical ball. Do you want a very low friction pivot joint or a very tight pivot joint? It's up to you, the amount of tension can be easily adjusted by using our optional adjustment tool to tighten or loosen the end retainer ring.
What that also means is if over time and miles the tolerances open up you can simply re-adjust the retainer ring and have your pivot joint as tight as it was the day it was brand new. We doubt you'll ever need to replace the Delrin bushing cups, but they certainly can be. Unlike a spherical rod end, the Del-Sphere pivot joint is 100% rebuildable.

What is Delrin, and why did you choose to use it? Delrin is an acetal homopolymer made by DuPont. It is characterized as having an excellent combination of physical properties that make it suitable for numerous applications. With extremely low moisture absorption and a low coefficient of friction (self-lubricating), Delrin is uniquely tailored for wear applications in high humidity or moisture environments. Delrin will maintain constant physical properties under high moisture conditions and out-perform nylon or polyurethane under these conditions. Delrin has a 10,000 psi tensile strength and a 120 Rockwell Hardness rating making it ideal for our Del-Sphere application.

Build Specifications:
• 1.25" x .095" wall DOM tubing
• Stronger, yet lighter than stock
• TIG welded 4130N chrome moly threaded tube adapters
• 3/4" Del-Sphere pivot joints
• Right hand and left hand threaded ends with wrench flats allow for easy on-car adjustment - Ship jig set at OEM length
• CNC machined through sleeve and zinc coated steel spacers keep Del-Sphere ends perfectly centered inside of the vehicle mounting brackets
• Re-uses OEM mounting hardware, no need to drill out your car's LCA mounting bracket holes

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

On paper these Delp-Sphere bearings are the ultimate in streetable performance for a multi-axis of rotation bushing. It has the firmness or Delrin, the ease of rotation of a spherical, and the Delrin bushing material is just enough of an NVH soak-up to allow for streetability. They are also adjustable, rebuildable, and greaseable via the included grease zerk - and streetable. Sign me up, right?

Well... not so much, in practice. We used these Del-Sphere bushing ends in a Spohn Panhard bar and a UCA (also from Sphon) on our S197 and they were all a noisy, clunking mess. We re-adjusted the Del-Sphere ends a few times, greased them, called Spohn for help, tried just the Panhard bar by itself, but the noises never went away. And we're a suspension shop, so its not like we were clueless here. I couldn't wait to get these parts off the Mustang - all of this is still sitting in my shop, nearly new, and for sale on our Clearance Page at a steep discount. I really really wanted these bushings to work, and was envisioning all sorts of things we could do with these Del-Sphere joints. So disappointing!

I won't even get into how poorly the UCA bushing fit the upper mount, but long story short - it wasn't even close. We machined our own bushing inserts and it helped a little, but the noises never went away.

Replacing the Spohn UCA with the Multimatic $700 Boss 302-S/R UCA with a spherical bushing cured all of the noises and removed the slop. An expensive arm, to be sure, but the only one we tried that actually fit the mount properly.

So if you take anything from this it is: avoid the Del-Sphere bushings until they have them sorted out a little better. We had nothing but bad luck with those. The Whiteline LCAs and Panhard, on the other hand, work perfectly. Their "polymer" bushings allow enough rotating but don't have the slop or compliance of the OEM rubber ends to allow a lot of movement. All of these Mustang-specific items are fabricated in Southern California, too.

Even if you don't buy them from Vorshlag, trust me - these WL LCAs and Panhard bars are legit, and they both work for racing and street use alike (I'm still not a fan of the wL UCA, however - and I might get some grief from this for saying that). We've sold hundreds of these WL LCA and Panhard set-ups and there's not one customer yet that has come back and said "These make noise". Not one. I can't say that about many things, honestly...

Cheers,

 

[BMR Tech]

Terry, I think he is looking for options for 800-1000+rwhp - in a maximized traction / drag strip type application.

I could be wrong, but I think that is the route he is now taking for his car.

In that event, a quality rod-ended set of LCA are my vote. The polyurethane stuff simply isn't up to the task, when dealing with very high powered combos designed for optimal launching characteristics.

I don't wish to go into detail with our testing on the various "joints" out there, but I will say that we have come to the conclusion that a true quality bearing is the best path to take, in just about any situation where NVH is of minimal concern.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Well, I'm not using these then!!!!

Thanks!

 

[Department Of Boost]

Terry, I think he is looking for options for 800-1000+rwhp - in a maximized traction / roadrace type application.

Fixed

 

[BMR Tech]

Fixed

lol

I could've sworn you were going to the dark side.

 

[Department Of Boost]

lol

I could've sworn you were going to the dark side.

Different car.

 

[skwerl]

I was gonna stick my nose in here but I see you already have two of the best suspension guys on the forum giving their opinion. So therefore I'll just STFU.

 

[BMR Tech]

Different car.

...sneaky

Fair enough. Well, good luck with your mission.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I was gonna stick my nose in here but I see you already have two of the best suspension guys on the forum giving their opinion. So therefore I'll just STFU.

All I needed to hear was what Vorshlag thought of them...............yuck! I don't need that sort of trouble. Looks like I'm getting some BMR's!

 

[Whiskey11]

All I needed to hear was what Vorshlag thought of them...............yuck! I don't need that sort of trouble. Looks like I'm getting some BMR's!

See if you can't convince Kelly to give you the ones with spherical bearings all around! Works of art:



Also cheaper to replace and more durable than the Rod Ends!

 

[Norm Peterson]

The Del-Sphere joint is pretty similar to the Johnny Joints that I have at one end of each of my LCAs, with the main difference being Spohn's use of Delrin rather than polyurethane for the bushing halves.

I think Delrin develops less stiction than poly, but probably transmits a bit more NVH. If stiction is an issue, you'll feel the difference right after you lube the joints . . . in both ride quality (less low level NVH) and in a reduced tendency to pick up the inside wheel and spin it. Probably time for me to hit mine with the lube again, and really that's all I've had to do in a couple years and several track days. I did initially have to tweak the length of one to re-center the steering wheel, and I did tweak the non-JJ ends for reasons of articulation (which you wouldn't have to do).


Norm

 

[Department Of Boost]

See if you can't convince Kelly to give you the ones with spherical bearings all around! Works of art:



Also cheaper to replace and more durable than the Rod Ends!

Those are nice and beefy looking.

 

[BMR Tech]

See if you can't convince Kelly to give you the ones with spherical bearings all around! Works of art:



Also cheaper to replace and more durable than the Rod Ends!

I dunno.....

I've thought about that - and I think they would be insanely loud. (clicking from articulation)

Personally, I've always wanted to use that same LCA (TCA022) and machine/turn down some Delrin for the front mounts.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Personally, I've always wanted to use that same LCA (TCA022) and machine/turn down some Delrin for the front mounts.

There ya go! We could whack those bushings out in no time.

Sooooooo, do they come in red?

That may be the ticket! I like those beefy looking arms and I don't need the adjustment.

 

[BMR Tech]

Come in Red???? They sure do....

I would LOVE to see you whittle down some delrin, for the front mounts. Yummy.

 

[Whiskey11]

I dunno.....

I've thought about that - and I think they would be insanely loud. (clicking from articulation)

Personally, I've always wanted to use that same LCA (TCA022) and machine/turn down some Delrin for the front mounts.

Delrin for the front would be a bad idea as the arms need to be able to articulate at that front point to handle the axle articulation. Yes Delrin gives but not in the same way Poly does.

As for the "clacking", well, think about it in the same sense of a rod end/rod end suspension and the noise that already transmits. I'm not sure it'd be that bad since you can clock the LCA's.

You could also take the Fays2 route and use some O-Rings on the spacers to help reduce the noise.

 

[BMR Tech]

Yeah, the O-Ring would work well. The TCA022 would clunk more than the rod-ends though, as the bearing housing would contact sooner than a rod-end housing would, on the spacers.

I don't think the Delrin up front would pose any negative issues on a road course car with a lot of roll stiffness, to be honest. I think the bearing in the rear would allow enough, combined with the articulation of the front sleeve.

I've got a few guys using Delrin in the fronts of our TCA021's, and have gotten some good feedback.

 

[Whiskey11]

Yeah, the O-Ring would work well. The TCA022 would clunk more than the rod-ends though, as the bearing housing would contact sooner than a rod-end housing would, on the spacers.

I don't think the Delrin up front would pose any negative issues on a road course car with a lot of roll stiffness, to be honest. I think the bearing in the rear would allow enough, combined with the articulation of the front sleeve.

I've got a few guys using Delrin in the fronts of our TCA021's, and have gotten some good feedback.

It isn't the articulation in front view (roll center) that I'd be worried about, it's the change in angle in plan view from roll steer. With a longer arm it wouldn't change as much but you have a pretty short arm on these cars so that splaying is going to be a bit larger. That is what I'm worried about!

 

[Department Of Boost]

Delrin for the front would be a bad idea as the arms need to be able to articulate at that front point to handle the axle articulation. Yes Delrin gives but not in the same way Poly does.

How much articulation do they need? I would think the rear would handle that???

I don't think the Delrin up front would pose any negative issues on a road course car with a lot of roll stiffness, to be honest. I think the bearing in the rear would allow enough, combined with the articulation of the front sleeve.

I was thinking the same, but I don't want to test anything.