Correct slave cylinder shim?

[frarmar]

Can someone verify this is the shim I need?

http://www.jegs.com/i/Ram-Clutches/798/598/10002/-1?parentProductId=

 

[JeremyH]

For.... what setup. Yes that will fit on the car may need longer bolts btw

 

[frarmar]

For.... what setup. Yes that will fit on the car may need longer bolts btw

I'm running a 3650 with a mach 500 and exedy flywheel setup. Which supposedly doesn't need a shim, but Liberty said all my blocking rings were shot after 2000 light miles. They claim it was due to a clutch disengagement issue... Soooo, I guess I'm trying a shim this time around.

Do you happen to know the specs on those bolts? The shim is 0.150. Any idea if I'd need the longer bolts?

Thanks a lot.

 

[AbdullaGT500]

Where is the shim supposed to go anyways? I just installed my mach 600 with the motor and didn't use a shim. Hope I wasn't supposed to.

 

[frarmar]

Where is the shim supposed to go anyways? I just installed my mach 600 with the motor and didn't use a shim. Hope I wasn't supposed to.

The shim goes behind the slave. Both Exedy tech support and Brenspeed said you do not need one. I think most people don't shim the exedys and have great results. A couple I've read about have, probably a vast minority. I'd say don't sweat it.

I don't know exactly what the deal is with mine. I do know there's another guy on here with a liberty 3650 and the same clutch I have that had the same exact thing happen to him. He shimmed his the second time around and is so far so good.

 

[Flapjack]

What does the shim exactly fix? Does it help disengagement at all? I have a Zoom twin disc clutch and a TR6060 with stock GT500 slave cylinder. Since I'm pulling the engine soon, I'm trying to decide If I want to run a different clutch and/or flywheel. My setup is pretty good, but I do get some disengagement issues and the twin disc buzz at 2k rpm. If a shim like the one in the OP would help, I'd love to know!

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[rojizostang]

it looks like the shim i used. exedy 400 though. it was the shops suggestion to use that shim. i have no issues shifting at wot x 6500rpm.

 

[JeremyH]

It allows for more force/throw on the pressure plate to for complete disengagement if you weren't getting it before.

 

[gil_t2]

If you do the pre-load measurements, you will know if you need it or not. The design of the pressure plate fingers can change the preload, and make the shim needed. I used a Ram Powerhouse with my 6060, and needed the shim.

 

[Flapjack]

It allows for more force/throw on the pressure plate to for complete disengagement if you weren't getting it before.

I'm kinda curious now. What is the downside if you install it and don't need it?

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[908ssp]

I'm kinda curious now. What is the downside if you install it and don't need it?

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I don't think there is one. Bbecause the clutch slave has plenty of travel in the pre-load direction. I had to shim mine with a Spec II clutch I think the fingers gave a little or it just would not release properly. But since shimming it the thing shifts better than new easy as pie.

 

[frarmar]

Another question. Would you feel it if your clutch wasn't disengaging fully?

My trans felt great up until it started grinding into 2nd... Not a single hint it was eating the blocking rings.

 

[drive_55_not]

I'm running a 3650 with a mach 500 and exedy flywheel setup. Which supposedly doesn't need a shim, but Liberty said all my blocking rings were shot after 2000 light miles. They claim it was due to a clutch disengagement issue... Soooo, I guess I'm trying a shim this time around.

Do you happen to know the specs on those bolts? The shim is 0.150. Any idea if I'd need the longer bolts?

Thanks a lot.

I'd say a .15" shim is a little too thick,, I used a .115" shim on my ACT at first and it was too much shim, it made the pedal really stiff and the clutch disengaged with only 1/4 pedal travel.. Made for quick shifts but also made my knee hurt when sitting in traffic ... I also experienced some over-centering when shifting over 6500.

I tried a .08" shim and it was still too much, A .060 turned out to be the ticket for me clutch starts to disengage right past 50% pedal travel, and no over-centering ..

.

 

[frarmar]

I'd say a .15" shim is a little too thick,, I used a .115" shim on my ACT at first and it was too much shim, it made the pedal really stiff and the clutch disengaged with only 1/4 pedal travel.. Made for quick shifts but also made my knee hurt when sitting in traffic ... I also experienced some over-centering when shifting over 6500.

I tried a .08" shim and it was still too much, A .060 turned out to be the ticket for me clutch starts to disengage right past 50% pedal travel, and no over-centering ..

.

The reason I picked that shim is because the guy I mentioned with the same exact setup as me used it with success. He measured and decided on that one. So hopefully it'll do the same for me.


Thanks for the input.

 

[908ssp]

I used a .125 shim. But my setup is completely different than yours.

I can't speak to why people have the results they do. I can tell you from years of working with hydraulic systems the only thing the shim does is set the length of stroke. It can't change the pressure you feel. The spring in the clutch is much stronger than the spring in the slave cylinder so no matter what shim you put in the position of the piston inside the slave is in the same place when the clutch is engaged. When you step on the pedal the piston moves compressing the clutch spring the clutch determines when the plate is released. The end of the stroke is set by the shim if you have too much shim you can over travel the clutch too little shim or none and the piston might not travel far enough to disengage the clutch. The amount of pedal stroke from fully released is determined by the clutch mechanism. There are holes in the cylinder for the fluid to enter if it is covered the pressure will feel much higher than normal to get the clutch to move but once moving the pressure should drop to normal. It is vital to get a good bleed and this might be the problem many people have with the clutch.

This is how I bleed the clutch there is a remote bleeder screw in the engine compartment.

 

[frarmar]

I used a .125 shim. But my setup is completely different than yours.

I can't speak to why people have the results they do. I can tell you from years of working with hydraulic systems the only thing the shim does is set the length of stroke. It can't change the pressure you feel. The spring in the clutch is much stronger than the spring in the slave cylinder so no matter what shim you put in the position of the piston inside the slave is in the same place when the clutch is engaged. When you step on the pedal the piston moves compressing the clutch spring the clutch determines when the plate is released. The end of the stroke is set by the shim if you have too much shim you can over travel the clutch too little shim or none and the piston might not travel far enough to disengage the clutch. The amount of pedal stroke from fully released is determined by the clutch mechanism. There are holes in the cylinder for the fluid to enter if it is covered the pressure will feel much higher than normal to get the clutch to move but once moving the pressure should drop to normal. It is vital to get a good bleed and this might be the problem many people have with the clutch.

This is how I bleed the clutch there is a remote bleeder screw in the engine compartment.

That's a pretty trick looking set up you got there! I was just gonna compress the slave and suck up brake fluid out of a bottle. Will that even help any?

Do you think I would've felt the clutch not disengaging? Like I said above the shop said my blocking rings were shot due to a clutch disengagement issue. It shifted great with no issues right up til it started grinding into 2nd gear..

Thanks

 

[908ssp]

I can't say if you would have felt it. I can say mine was obvious to me. I could hardly get it into first gear sometimes pumping the peddle helped a bit most of the time it didn't. I bleed it with vacuum and that didn't help at all. I shimmed it and it was a night and day difference shifted better than new out of the factory with Amsoil in it.

 

[JeremyH]

You will know if its not disengaging for sure it will be harder to get in gear or you can get grinding when shifting.

 

[frarmar]

I can't say if you would have felt it. I can say mine was obvious to me. I could hardly get it into first gear sometimes pumping the peddle helped a bit most of the time it didn't. I bleed it with vacuum and that didn't help at all. I shimmed it and it was a night and day difference shifted better than new out of the factory with Amsoil in it.

You will know if its not disengaging for sure it will be harder to get in gear or you can get grinding when shifting.

Hmmm.. I had none of those symptoms leading up to failure... Oh well, hopefully I'll have better luck this time around.

 

[Flapjack]

I'd say a .15" shim is a little too thick,, I used a .115" shim on my ACT at first and it was too much shim, it made the pedal really stiff and the clutch disengaged with only 1/4 pedal travel.. Made for quick shifts but also made my knee hurt when sitting in traffic ... I also experienced some over-centering when shifting over 6500.

I tried a .08" shim and it was still too much, A .060 turned out to be the ticket for me clutch starts to disengage right past 50% pedal travel, and no over-centering ..

.

So where are you finding these different sizes to try? I just looked around and only found the Ram Clutches one. I'd like to start at .60 then .80 if needed.

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