Just Ordered Royal Purple HPS+ 5w30, Is This Bad? Should I Have Ordered 5w20?

[Speed+Clinic]

1372 what engine is that? What were the oil change intervals? What brand oil? All of this factors among others must be taken into account when talking about engine lubrication.

 

[BruceH]

Can you please read the links about oil...

The first weight is the Winter weight, at 60F a 0w-20 and a 10w-20 will have the same viscosity... All oils from a class 4 base stock will have uniform molecules which results in less friction. But an oil just being able to cool better than another one I still haven't been able to read one article that denotes this.

Thevexact same 3v is sold in australia and the only difference between both is that they recommend 5w-30 there...

Better cooling comes from increased flow. Increased flow comes from less resistance. Cooling is one of the purposes of motor oil.

Is 5w-20 available in Austrailia? More than likely there isn't a local source with the technology to manufacture it. Could be the climate, I'm not really concerned with it. I am concerned with my motor though.

I've spent alot of time reading oil links and I'll never get that time back. I've never read one that tested viscosity vs clearance at different points in the motor, at different oil temps, what pressure was needed with a specific viscosity, or what was needed to maintain a wedge at specific clearances.

Edit: I decided to google 5w-20 Austrailia and this popped up:



In a letter to all FPV dealers recently, Mr. Paul Cook Head of Programmes FPV & Prodrive Australia advised that “only one oil is recommended for the new range of supercharged BOSS 315 and 335 engines … and that’s Castrol Edge 5W-20.
During the design and development phase of the supercharged BOSS 315 and 335 engine program, Prodrive worked closely with Castrol to develop a unique and specific lubricant formulation to withstand the demands of the most powerful V8 engine ever offered by FPV.
Mr Cook also went on to state that “Castrol Edge 5W-20 is a high performance engine oil engineered to both reduce friction and ensure maximum protection of all engine components, which assists in delivering more engine power and enables these high output engines to return outstanding fuel economy complying with the strict Euro IV regulations.

Despite increases in both power and torque with the new supercharged BOSS 315 and 335 V8s, Castrol’s Edge 5W-20 low friction formula provides premium wear protection for these new performance engines where maximum efficiency is demanded.

Castrol Edge 5W-20 is the only approved oil for the FPV BOSS 5.0 litre Supercharged engines having passed the specific requirements of the Prodrive oil testing & validation program.”

At Castrol, we know a thing or two about performance. It’s what has driven us for over 100 years.


Edit 2: Searched availability of 5w-20 in Australia. It's just recently been imported and available for retail sale. This is from a Chrysler forum:


Author: audifred [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:33 pm ]Post subject: SAE 5W-20 top up engine oilSebring ownership in Australia is proving interesting to say the least.

I decided to buy some top up engine oil.

The recommended oil as noted on the engine oil cap is SAE 5W-20 for the 2.7L Flexfuel engine.

I have read that different grades of oil should not be used, so off shopping for SAE 5W-20 I went.

Now here is the rub..... 5W-20 is not available retail here in Australia!

Apparently General Motors Holden and Nissan are investigating having it marketable in the next 6 months or so, but Chrysler has not seen reason to have it already in place for retail sale.

The Service Manager at the nearest Chrysler dealership confirms that they use 5W-20 when doing oil changes.

To me this means that Chrysler have ensured a monopoly on engine oil changes if you want to maintain the recommended grade, and that they have an "out" if you top up with another grade, and the engine has issues.

Sneaky buggers I think!

 

[mustangflanagan]

does racing oils breakdown faster than convential oils?

 

[Mattr89]

So you put mobil1 one time and you threw 4 rod bearings, cracked a piston and a blown ring?

The problem with lubrication is that there is a lot of hearsay going around. The only 100% sure way to know if the oil you selected is working adecuately is by doing an oil analysis. Its only like 12 bucks and takes out the guess work...

re-read my post. Penzoil caused the problem. I know penzoil caused it, its a fact. Its blown two different engines, and when i rebuilt them with royal purple they were fine.

This.

It's unfair to blame an engine failure on the oil brand. There could have been other things going on, like an oil pump failure, normal wear and tear, and/or just plain old abuse. All of those oils you have on the list of worst oils are API SN approved for the passenger car versions and they will do as well as the Supertech that you praised.

mobil1 has burnt oil in EVERY single car i have used it in FACT. Penzoil has blown 2 of my engines. I know for a fact its shitty oil, i would NEVER buy penzoil.

there is no way that 2 different cars would blow with penzoil if it wasnt the oil, because i rebuilt them perfectly, when i did it again and fixed the rod bearings the exact same way i did the first time, i used royal purple and they are are both still going strong 8 years later with 100+ k on them!

Penzoil worst oil every, mobil1 burns too much oil!

 

[ctt326]

hmm im very intersted in this zinc additive in the oil, i kind of want to try some out i see you run 10w40 W/ zinc what brand of oil is it and where are you buying it

it's 10w-30 Valvoline VR1

 

[13726548]

1372 what engine is that? What were the oil change intervals? What brand oil? All of this factors among others must be taken into account when talking about engine lubrication.

The oil change intervals are listed on the spreadsheet. They are various 4.6L and 5.4L F150 engines from various F150s.

Brand is unknown, but I thought we're debating viscosity, not brand. Therefore it is irrelevant.

 

[Speed+Clinic]

The oil change intervals are listed on the spreadsheet. They are various 4.6L and 5.4L F150 engines from various F150s.

Brand is unknown, but I thought we're debating viscosity, not brand. Therefore it is irrelevant.

So in other words you are saying that all brands have the same viscosity?

 

[Speed+Clinic]

does racing oils breakdown faster than convential oils?

The other way around

 

[Speed+Clinic]

1. Better cooling comes from increased flow. Increased flow comes from less resistance. Cooling is one of the purposes of motor oil.

2. Is 5w-20 available in Austrailia? More than likely there isn't a local source with the technology to manufacture it. Could be the climate, I'm not really concerned with it. I am concerned with my motor though.

I've spent alot of time reading oil links and I'll never get that time back. I've never read one that tested viscosity vs clearance at different points in the motor, at different oil temps, what pressure was needed with a specific viscosity, or what was needed to maintain a wedge at specific clearances.

Edit: I decided to google 5w-20 Austrailia and this popped up:



In a letter to all FPV dealers recently, Mr. Paul Cook Head of Programmes FPV & Prodrive Australia advised that “only one oil is recommended for the new range of supercharged BOSS 315 and 335 engines … and that’s Castrol Edge 5W-20.
During the design and development phase of the supercharged BOSS 315 and 335 engine program, Prodrive worked closely with Castrol to develop a unique and specific lubricant formulation to withstand the demands of the most powerful V8 engine ever offered by FPV.
Mr Cook also went on to state that “Castrol Edge 5W-20 is a high performance engine oil engineered to both reduce friction and ensure maximum protection of all engine components, which assists in delivering more engine power and enables these high output engines to return outstanding fuel economy complying with the strict Euro IV regulations.

Despite increases in both power and torque with the new supercharged BOSS 315 and 335 V8s, Castrol’s Edge 5W-20 low friction formula provides premium wear protection for these new performance engines where maximum efficiency is demanded.

Castrol Edge 5W-20 is the only approved oil for the FPV BOSS 5.0 litre Supercharged engines having passed the specific requirements of the Prodrive oil testing & validation program.”

At Castrol, we know a thing or two about performance. It’s what has driven us for over 100 years.


Edit 2: Searched availability of 5w-20 in Australia. It's just recently been imported and available for retail sale. This is from a Chrysler forum:


Author: audifred [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:33 pm ]Post subject: SAE 5W-20 top up engine oilSebring ownership in Australia is proving interesting to say the least.

I decided to buy some top up engine oil.

The recommended oil as noted on the engine oil cap is SAE 5W-20 for the 2.7L Flexfuel engine.

I have read that different grades of oil should not be used, so off shopping for SAE 5W-20 I went.

Now here is the rub..... 5W-20 is not available retail here in Australia!

Apparently General Motors Holden and Nissan are investigating having it marketable in the next 6 months or so, but Chrysler has not seen reason to have it already in place for retail sale.

The Service Manager at the nearest Chrysler dealership confirms that they use 5W-20 when doing oil changes.

To me this means that Chrysler have ensured a monopoly on engine oil changes if you want to maintain the recommended grade, and that they have an "out" if you top up with another grade, and the engine has issues.

Sneaky buggers I think!

1. Yes but thats not what you said, this is what you said: "I know most turbo guys go with a 10w-x because keeping the turbo cool is a priority and they generate alot of heat." Again what does the winter rating have to do with cooling off. Any documentation?

2. http://www.lucasoil.com.au/content/view/24/100/ lucas australia 5w-20
http://shell-racing.com.au/racing-oil.html
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/multipleproductsection.do?categoryId=9000164&contentId=7024136
5w-20 is available in australia, so now after you have decided not to read any documentation that has been provided, you quote a marketing partnership? Ford Recomends Castrol, now that wasn't a partnering up deal? Still doesn't say why Saleen, Roush, Shelby, etc Recomend 5w-30...

3. Scott Whitehead: "I'm not going into details here, but I know I've talked to several people on this list before about this. Please do not put 5w-20 or less into a mod motor. Please.

That is all...."

"I'm assuming you're not referring to my comments, or don't know my background? Are you aware that I spent about 10 years doing engine development with Ford Motor Company, including being the systems engineer on the 2003 Aviator and 2005 Mustang V8s?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chim-Chim
Would you recommend 5W-30, then? I have been running the Motorcraft 5W-20 synthetic blend.

Scott: "5W-30 is probably a good oil for the street with mixed temperatures, yes."

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT4Point6
?? Not sure what your saying. Are you saying to not run 5w-20 in the mod motors? I wouldn't run it any thinner but 5W20 is the spec oil from most Ford engines since 2001. If there is somehting wrong with it, I'm sure we would see a lot of people with motor problems. Mustangs, CVs, F150, F250-550 and what ever else the put the mod motors in and I'm just not seeing that on the Mustang and Truck forums.

Scott:"I think you'll understand that I can go into details here. And understand that I'm not saying that 5W-20 is not going to instantly do damage. But suffice it to say I've seen and been involved in a LOT of development on these motors, and my personal opinion is that I would never run 5W-20 in a modular motor. Regarding your "spec oil" comment, you need to look at what else governs this recommendation.

I apologize for not being a little more clear and forthcoming."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bassen
Scott, does your 5W30 recommendation carry over to 5.4L 3V motors?

Scott:" Yes. I would not run 5W-20 in ANY stock mod motor. This is especially true in 4v motors, but applies to all of them in one form or another."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Houstonnw
Steve Bassen asked about the 5.4L 3V motors and I'm interested in the 4.6L 3V motors. I understand that the variable valve timing is based on the engine tolerances and I would assume, the oil viscosity.
So if you were taking a 3V Mustang to track days, what oil would you use?

Scott: "My *PERSONAL RECOMMENDATION* would be to run a good fresh synthetic in the 5w-30 to 10W-40 range. And keep an eye on oil temps and oil pressure variations. The oil viscosity might slightly change the VCT's transient behaviors, but I wouldn't expect significant issues. I admit that I've never tested or seen testing relating to oils thicker than 10W-40, so I can't comment on that."

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbower
Scott: I would be very interested in why you think 5w-20 is a bit too thin for heavy use.

Scott: "Because I've seen the dyno testing. I've probably looked at several hundred engines disassembled and spread out on inspection tables. And I've been involved in testing to resolve issues where varying the oil viscosity was part of the test DOE. Trading a very small FE improvement in exchange for a large durability safety margin is not something I'm interested in doing."

__________________
Scott W
Driver - Rhino Brothers Racing - NASA AIX / AV8SS #63
Ex-Crew Chief - Rehagen Racing - Grand-Am Cup #52, #58, #59
Engineer - Michael Waltrip Racing - NASCAR Nextel Cup #47, #55, #00

Those are his specific coments unless anyone can find any solid information on the contrary, I think the safest route is going with what the dude that designed the car has to say.

 

[BruceH]

I wonder what the clearances were on the test motors? I also wonder what volume and psi the test oil pump was putting out. I'd imagine they used data from the testing phase to tweak the final configuration.

 

[13726548]

So in other words you are saying that all brands have the same viscosity?

No, but again, that's not the topic of discussion here. You could start a whole new topic on how different brands of 5w-30 have different viscosities and shear rates.

 

[Speed+Clinic]

No, but again, that's not the topic of discussion here. You could start a whole new topic on how different brands of 5w-30 have different viscosities and shear rates.

Doing that we are assuming that every oil is the same, that every oil behaves the same, that every oil has the same viscosity which is false...

 

[Speed+Clinic]

I wonder what the clearances were on the test motors? I also wonder what volume and psi the test oil pump was putting out. I'd imagine they used data from the testing phase to tweak the final configuration.

Same as production, etc etc. Those are assumptions, is there any real data to back up that claim? He specifically states that he would not use 5w-20 in any MOD MOTOR. Unless there is any evidence on the contrary, or any other real evidence that suggests anything else I will follow what the guy that designed the engine says... Everyone else is welcomed to use 5w-20 just because the sticker says so

 

[KIMMER]

I copied this thread into the sticky thread in mustang chit chat, The Great Oil Debate. You can use this one for the original royal purple talk, but if you guys want to make it a hardcore oil tech thread, lets use the other one so it gives people one place to go for answers.

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81441

 

[BruceH]

I wonder what the clearances were on the test motors? I also wonder what volume and psi the test oil pump was putting out. I'd imagine they used data from the testing phase to tweak the final configuration.

Same as production, etc etc. Those are assumptions, is there any real data to back up that claim? He specifically states that he would not use 5w-20 in any MOD MOTOR. Unless there is any evidence on the contrary, or any other real evidence that suggests anything else I will follow what the guy that designed the engine says... Everyone else is welcomed to use 5w-20 just because the sticker says so

I only asked a question. That's it. No claims about anything. I would like to know what kind of test rig they use for motor design so I asked what the process was.

Are you mad?

 

[Speed+Clinic]

I only asked a question. That's it. No claims about anything. I would like to know what kind of test rig they use for motor design so I asked what the process was.

Are you mad?

Not mad but just put yourself in my shoes for one sec. Just dont see why anyone would question the recomendation of the guy that made the engine, even more w/o any real documentation or evidence to support a counterpoint. Thats all, as always a lot of misinformation going around about oil, especially in this thread...

I think it would be better to just be quiet and let people use 5w-20 just because the sticker says so. Either way any evidence or documentation will not be read, there will not be any real evidence or documentation to support 5w-20. So whats the point?

 

[BruceH]

Not mad but just put yourself in my shoes for one sec. Just dont see why anyone would question the recomendation of the guy that made the engine, even more w/o any real documentation or evidence to support a counterpoint. Thats all, as always a lot of misinformation going around about oil, especially in this thread...

I think it would be better to just be quiet and let people use 5w-20 just because the sticker says so. Either way any evidence or documentation will not be read, there will not be any real evidence or documentation to support 5w-20. So whats the point?

FWIW I'm fairly certain I've read most of the material you linked. I just happen to disagree with most of it. It's nothing personal. Like you I'm ready to stick a fork in this and call it done. So far I've torn down two 4.6 3v motors of mine. One had a regular diet of 5w-20 and one had mostly x-30. I haven't seen any noteable difference in wear so I'm basing my opinion on my personal experience. I doubt any of my 3v motors will see over 30k because I start to get nervous knowing how much power and abuse it's taken. I actually have parts to make a back up motor so I'll have less down time the next go around.

I'm fairly certain that most of the members on this site use 5w-30 or a higher viscosity. I think differently than most people. If I get burned it's on me.

Did you ever find a honing plate?

 

[Speed+Clinic]

FWIW I'm fairly certain I've read most of the material you linked. I just happen to disagree with most of it. It's nothing personal. Like you I'm ready to stick a fork in this and call it done. So far I've torn down two 4.6 3v motors of mine. One had a regular diet of 5w-20 and one had mostly x-30. I haven't seen any noteable difference in wear so I'm basing my opinion on my personal experience. I doubt any of my 3v motors will see over 30k because I start to get nervous knowing how much power and abuse it's taken. I actually have parts to make a back up motor so I'll have less down time the next go around.

I'm fairly certain that most of the members on this site use 5w-30 or a higher viscosity. I think differently than most people. If I get burned it's on me.

Did you ever find a honing plate?

No problem with your decision, after all it is your engine. But if there is no data to stand behind it, well...

As for the torque plate no lol