All Motor Chat - High Gearing, Light weight, Revin to the moon-

[Scott]

Matt, so far the weather here looks pretty good for Sunday. Good luck!

 

[Matt D]

I hope so. Would be nice to go out again

 

[ford20]

When you spin the 5.0 to 8K would it be beneficial to have this?

http://www.lethalperformance.com/20...l-ti-vct-high-rpm-competition-pulse-ring.html

If I am going to upgrade my oil pump I might as well do this as well correct?

 

[Matt D]

I will be honest with you I have not had any timing issues, or anything reving to 8K on my stock one. I cannot shed light on how this one differs from ours. I have yet to pull my timing cover off.

 

[ford20]

Alright cool! Thanks for the heads up, I will have to see if I can find anything about it on the Boss sites and maybe shed some light on why Ford decided to put it on the Boss.

 

[kdanner]

The large gap is 1MM less shallow, I have the part here and have measured it, you can see tool marks, it is a stock part which they modified. Clearly the engineers felt this was needed to clean up the signal at high RPM, else they would just do it in calibration. But there will always be someone who thinks he knows better and not change the hardware.

 

[wbt]

FWIW the trigger wheel is on the back of the engine between the flywheel/flexplate and crank on the Coyote and Roadrunner engines.

 

[Mike K]

Ok not to beat a dead horse but I am putting 127500 cams in this winter and I just want to know 2 things. Should I upgrade my oil pump and should I go with phaser limiters or lockouts? Car is my summer DD if that makes a difference.

 

[Matt D]

I knew it was behind the flywheel as I had it apart enough times just half asleep when I posted -_- . Good to know the difference

 

[tehdixie]

Ok not to beat a dead horse but I am putting 127500 cams in this winter and I just want to know 2 things. Should I upgrade my oil pump and should I go with phaser limiters or lockouts? Car is my summer DD if that makes a difference.

Yes, it's relatively cheap insurance and limiters.

 

[ford20]

That was my mistake thinking that it went on the front of the crankshaft somewhere.

I obviously don't know nearly as much as most of the people here lol. Just learning

Ok not to beat a dead horse but I am putting 127500 cams in this winter and I just want to know 2 things. Should I upgrade my oil pump and should I go with phaser limiters or lockouts? Car is my summer DD if that makes a difference.

Like tehdixie had said I would go with limiters as you are still able to keep your VCT function and be able to get HP out of it where with lockouts you would loose the VCT and thus the HP that comes with it. On a FI car it isn't that big of a deal but when you are staying N/A every little bit helps. Also if you go with the Melling High Volume Oil Pump you are going to have to go with lockouts as they do not create enough pressure to utilize VCT. I will see if I can dig up the post a little later on that Matt had with IIRC Redfire07GT on the subject if you are interested.

Edit: I found something similar

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1260966&postcount=1000

 

[Matt D]

The large gap is 1MM less shallow, I have the part here and have measured it, you can see tool marks, it is a stock part which they modified. Clearly the engineers felt this was needed to clean up the signal at high RPM, else they would just do it in calibration. But there will always be someone who thinks he knows better and not change the hardware.

It's not that I know better, What I was saying is I have not ran into any issues and I didn't know the difference on the new one Ford Racing released.

Not that you can see the stock one this pic but when I first got the motor I thought it was trick having it behind instead of in front.

 

[weather man]

Ok not to beat a dead horse but I am putting 127500 cams in this winter and I just want to know 2 things. Should I upgrade my oil pump and should I go with phaser limiters or lockouts? Car is my summer DD if that makes a difference.

Mike, I got my GT500 oil pump with TSS gears (VCT no problem) from JDM. Maybe he will have a X-mas special going. MMR has a pump with billet gears, but you know how people feel about MMR

 

[NotaHybrid]

Ok not to beat a dead horse but I am putting 127500 cams in this winter and I just want to know 2 things. Should I upgrade my oil pump and should I go with phaser limiters or lockouts? Car is my summer DD if that makes a difference.

You asked the question I was going to ask.

Looks as though I'm getting a new oil pump as well when I install my 127500's

 

[Mike K]

Ok thanks guys. I will probably get a hold of jdm.

 

[NotaHybrid]

Will a new oil pan not be needed with an upgraded oil pump?

Edit: By new I mean bigger oil pan.

 

[Mike K]

Nope.

 

[marcspaz]

Ok not to beat a dead horse but I am putting 127500 cams in this winter and I just want to know 2 things. Should I upgrade my oil pump and should I go with phaser limiters or lockouts? Car is my summer DD if that makes a difference.

That was my mistake thinking that it went on the front of the crankshaft somewhere.

I obviously don't know nearly as much as most of the people here lol. Just learning



Like tehdixie had said I would go with limiters as you are still able to keep your VCT function and be able to get HP out of it where with lockouts you would loose the VCT and thus the HP that comes with it. On a FI car it isn't that big of a deal but when you are staying N/A every little bit helps. Also if you go with the Melling High Volume Oil Pump you are going to have to go with lockouts as they do not create enough pressure to utilize VCT. I will see if I can dig up the post a little later on that Matt had with IIRC Redfire07GT on the subject if you are interested.

Edit: I found something similar

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1260966&postcount=1000

Guys, guys, guys.... so much bad information. (face palm)

Installing cams and the cam performance has nothing to due with requiring an upgraded/replaced oil pump. I would recommend you replace your oil pump if you are racing regularly, regularly hitting high revs with your car (over 5,500 RPM daily) or if you have high miles and are doing a more causal "weekend warrior" racing. Upgrading your cams will not impact your engine temps, your oiling systems ability to lube your system or VCT performance.

As far as lockouts vs. limiters. The concept is with lockouts you lose some low-end torque... not HP. You should lock them out to avoid piston/valve contact if you are gonna rev it. I had the 127600 in my 2007 with lockouts and it was pretty bad ass.

Check out the two dyno sheets. The top one is with a stock long block with a tune and CAI. The second one is with a CAI, P&P heads, 127600 cams, and AR LT's. The torque curves are near identical with the VCT compared to without.

 

[ford20]

Guys, guys, guys.... so much bad information. (face palm)

Installing cams and the cam performance has nothing to due with requiring an upgraded/replaced oil pump. I would recommend you replace your oil pump if you are racing regularly, regularly hitting high revs with your car (over 5,500 RPM daily) or if you have high miles and are doing a more causal "weekend warrior" racing. Upgrading your cams will not impact your engine temps, your oiling systems ability to lube your system or VCT performance.

As far as lockouts vs. limiters. The concept is with lockouts you lose some low-end torque... not HP. You should lock them out to avoid piston/valve contact if you are gonna rev it. I had the 127600 in my 2007 with lockouts and it was pretty bad ass.

Check out the two dyno sheets. The top one is with a stock long block with a tune and CAI. The second one is with a CAI, P&P heads, 127600 cams, and AR LT's. The torque curves are near identical with the VCT compared to without.

Thank You for correcting me, I would rather be corrected then give out wrong information. I had mistaken the specs in my head and confused the 127300 cams with the 500s which is fairly stupid of me to do. You are correct anything over .500 lift requires lockouts which obviously the 127500 cams have, that was a major brain fart moment on my part.

That being said with the addition of the 127500 cams and where the power is going to be made in the RPM band it would be safe to presume that he would be taking his car to the track even on occasion. While you have the engine apart I would put in a new oil pump just for safety sake. I was under the presumption that when revving your motor high you can run into oil starvation issues and it is better no matter how brief of a time period it occurs in to upgrade the pump and avoid this issue then it is to risk it and take a chance because lord knows that anything could happen at any time.

Also, with the addition of VCT aren't you increasing the amount of HP and torque that the engine will make? It was under my assumption that by locking the cams you are loosing both HP and torque, not just one or the other and by putting in limiters you are limiting the amount that the cam is able to rotate and loosing a little or maintaining the amount of HP and torque that the engine makes. Is that accurate? I don't mean to sound like a dick if I am coming across that way, just trying to learn.

 

[Mike K]

I see what your saying. I may do an oil pump just for peace of mind and it will help me when I do take the next step with the build eventually.