Shitty Texas fuel!

[05stroker]

You guys can argue all you want! The switch from C16 (117 oct) to E85 (105 oct) gained me 3/10-4/10 in the 1/4 mile and about 100-140 rwhp (900-940). Cant wait to see the gains with the new C/R on the same fuel. You guys can continue your argument now...

 

[BruceH]

It's an amazing fuel, isn't it? I've always gained power when switching from gasoline. Even when not increasing the spark advance. Pretty good for a fuel with less energy. The exhaust also smells so good, sweet and not like exhaust at all.

I'm not trying to argue. It's just that there are so many untruths circulating I feel the need to at least let folks know there are different viewpoints.

I haven't known anyone who was disappointed when they switched. Your gains are huge.

You guys can argue all you want! The switch from C16 (117 oct) to E85 (105 oct) gained me 3/10-4/10 in the 1/4 mile and about 100-140 rwhp (900-940). Cant wait to see the gains with the new C/R on the same fuel. You guys can continue your argument now...

 

[05stroker]

It's an amazing fuel, isn't it? I've always gained power when switching from gasoline. Even when not increasing the spark advance. Pretty good for a fuel with less energy. The exhaust also smells so good, sweet and not like exhaust at all.

I'm not trying to argue. It's just that there are so many untruths circulating I feel the need to at least let folks know there are different viewpoints.

I haven't known anyone who was disappointed when they switched. Your gains are huge.

I can see both arguments in this thread. I use the caned, no ethanol fuel, in my weed eater and blower and such. When it comes to my car I am sold on E85! There is no turning back. Now for lightly modified or stock vehicles, there is no reason to run e85 IMO. I tested it for a couple months in my 09 F150 and the cost vrs consumption was almost the same. I just burnt more fuel, that is all.

When I find the limit of E85, if ever, I will have to run a leaded fuel and pay the price for my current build and you guys will be the first to here it.

If it handles my 12.0:1 C/R and 20 psi then there should be no more discussion as to whether it is a credible race fuel. LOL

 

[rcm90]

If it handles my 12.0:1 C/R and 20 psi then there should be no more discussion as to whether it is a credible race fuel. LOL

I've seen it handle 12.5:1 and 45psi in a 4 banger, I think your combo will not even be close to the limit. Lol

 

[BruceH]

It's never going to do much good unless the motor has some cylinder pressure. That's the main drawback. A motor made for gasoline doesn't get much out of it. A motor made for e85 with 14.5:1 compression will get good mileage and make a lot of power but it can never be run on gasoline because gas would destroy it.

If I was back in the Midwest I'd build a motor just for it. All I dared out here was 12:1 because of the 92 octane premium. I only have one station about 10 miles away. The next closest is 50 miles so I have to be ready to run gas.

Glad to hear everything is working for you. I think you will be fine with 20psi and 12:1. If anything goes it won't be because of detonation.

I can see both arguments in this thread. I use the caned, no ethanol fuel, in my weed eater and blower and such. When it comes to my car I am sold on E85! There is no turning back. Now for lightly modified or stock vehicles, there is no reason to run e85 IMO. I tested it for a couple months in my 09 F150 and the cost vrs consumption was almost the same. I just burnt more fuel, that is all.

When I find the limit of E85, if ever, I will have to run a leaded fuel and pay the price for my current build and you guys will be the first to here it.

If it handles my 12.0:1 C/R and 20 psi then there should be no more discussion as to whether it is a credible race fuel. LOL

 

[rcm90]

Bruce, how soft of a tune up is your engine on with the 12.1/blower combo running on 92oct?

Also do you know your dynamic compression of that setup? I'm going to be doing the same with my turbo coyote since e85 is not readily available. I'd turn it as far down as the wastegates will let me for the "lawn mower" fuel.

 

[05stroker]

Bruce, how soft of a tune up is your engine on with the 12.1/blower combo running on 92oct?

Also do you know your dynamic compression of that setup? I'm going to be doing the same with my turbo coyote since e85 is not readily available. I'd turn it as far down as the wastegates will let me for the "lawn mower" fuel.

I want to say last time I checked my DCR was going to be like 28:1. I will run the calculator again and post it in a few.

Okay, that was my effective boost compression ratio.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Bruce, could you briefly explain the dynamic compression ratio, effective boost compression ratio, and how they're both calculated please?

 

[shuvool]

It absolutely takes more energy to produce a gallon of gasoline (pump it, transport it, refine it, transport it again, pump it into you car, then finally burn it in an ICE) than we get out of it. You'd be violating the laws of physics otherwise.

without getting into the specific efficiency of the particular equipment in question, there would be as many steps either way, no? Harvest the crop yield, transport it to a facility to turn it into alcohol, distil your alcohol, transport ot a fuel station, put it in your car, burn it. Also, until we're all driving 100% ethanol fueled vehicles, there's also the step of blending it with gasoline, but I digress

 

[JeremyH]

It's never going to do much good unless the motor has some cylinder pressure. That's the main drawback. A motor made for gasoline doesn't get much out of it. A motor made for e85 with 14.5:1 compression will get good mileage and make a lot of power but it can never be run on gasoline because gas would destroy it.

If I was back in the Midwest I'd build a motor just for it. All I dared out here was 12:1 because of the 92 octane premium. I only have one station about 10 miles away. The next closest is 50 miles so I have to be ready to run gas.

Glad to hear everything is working for you. I think you will be fine with 20psi and 12:1. If anything goes it won't be because of detonation.

Mehh, my car did pretty good with its lower cylinder pressure on e85.
Stock displacement 9:1 compression, wide 115.5 lsa cam and it made 611rwhp at 10lbs of boost. That is some ridiculous efficiency and safe as all get out.

Another thing to note is I'm getting better gas mileage on e85 on the new setup than I did on pump 93 octane on the old setup. (Getiing 20-30 more miles a tank on corn than I did previously on 93)

Things that changed that help mileage I'm sure:
-Went from 80lb to 1000cc bosch injectors.
-Went from 170 degree t-stat back to factory 192 degree t-stat
-Went from Ht0's colder plugs back to stock heat range Ht1's
-Less back pressure and more low end flow twin turbo setup

Also gas mileage on pump gas has dramaticly increased, I ran pump gas going to the track last week, Cruising at 65-75mph with some stop and go and some playful romps here and three, made it 210 miles on a half tank of gas on 93 octane. That's ridiculous. I was getting 80-90 miles to a half tank on my old setup 93 octane.

 

[05stroker]

Do the HT1s work better with E85 then the HTOs?

 

[stkjock]

Do the HT1s work better with E85 then the HTOs?

E85 likes a hotter plug than gas at the same boost levels

 

[Dubstep Shep]

So what sort of engine compression ratio and boost is possible with e85? Bruce I feel like you have an equation for that lol

 

[Deez-67]

I don't understand?

I'm not sure what your not understanding about what I'm saying here. lol

I only run 100% in my cars. My 67 and 96 it's a no brainer. My 05 I've had to do it a few times but I try to only put in as much as I need to get where I can fill it up with 100%. I've had it throw itself in engine safety mode twice both times after running one or more full tanks of 10%. I can't say if that was way it happen but I have never had it happen again running 100%.

 

[JeremyH]

Do the HT1s work better with E85 then the HTOs?

E85 likes a hotter plug than gas at the same boost levels

That was my understanding and why I put stock heat range ht1's in.
You want colder plugs with pump gas to resist detonation with heat and boost, but with e85 your running a much colder burning fuel that doesn't really detonate.

It's working great for me. I like having a little more "heat" in the plug to compensate for the colder and higher volume of fuel. I'm sure it helps gas mileage quite a bit, as well as cold start driveability and part throttle etc. May even be good for a few ponies.

 

[BruceH]

That 10psi is affecting cylinder pressure. My reference was about a n/a motor not getting much out of it.

Mehh, my car did pretty good with its lower cylinder pressure on e85.
Stock displacement 9:1 compression, wide 115.5 lsa cam and it made 611rwhp at 10lbs of boost. That is some ridiculous efficiency and safe as all get out.

Another thing to note is I'm getting better gas mileage on e85 on the new setup than I did on pump 93 octane on the old setup. (Getiing 20-30 more miles a tank on corn than I did previously on 93)

Things that changed that help mileage I'm sure:
-Went from 80lb to 1000cc bosch injectors.
-Went from 170 degree t-stat back to factory 192 degree t-stat
-Went from Ht0's colder plugs back to stock heat range Ht1's
-Less back pressure and more low end flow twin turbo setup

Also gas mileage on pump gas has dramaticly increased, I ran pump gas going to the track last week, Cruising at 65-75mph with some stop and go and some playful romps here and three, made it 210 miles on a half tank of gas on 93 octane. That's ridiculous. I was getting 80-90 miles to a half tank on my old setup 93 octane.

 

[BruceH]

I must not of been reading it all the way. There is a real good chance that the ethanol solvent cleaned your mtbe deposits thus causing problems. Mtbe can form into a gel substance when mixed with ethanol.

I'm not sure what your not understanding about what I'm saying here. lol

 

[JeremyH]

That 10psi is affecting cylinder pressure. My reference was about a n/a motor not getting much out of it.

I like to share the info, most of the guys on here running e85 are boosted. Its not aimed at you Bruce, and I understand the n/a stoich compression based on volume and energy for optimal gas mileage. People think I'm crazy and feel you need high/higher compression even on boosted setups for e85. Or that it's lazy down low and I'm leaving power on the table etc. etc. So far I have not seen any of those things that everyone swears will happen.

I must not of been reading it all the way. There is a real good chance that the ethanol solvent cleaned your mtbe deposits thus causing problems. Mtbe can form into a gel substance when mixed with ethanol.

Also most modern injectors are not mtbe compatible and will gum up in a hurry.

 

[Sky Render]

I wish E85 was more readily available over here in the Northeast. I've heard I can get like 30 hp on an otherwise stock Coyote by tuning for it.

 

[Pentalab]

I guess we are lucky. Chevron 87-89-91-94 has no ethanol in it....and also does not contain mtbe. Shell 91 has no ethanol either...and also no mtbe. But this is on vancouver island, and also the lower mainland ( vancouver bc). My vmp tune was tweaked for 94 octane and no ethanol. The story I got was if the gas contains up to 10% ethanol, the eng will run .3-.5 leaner afr....at least on 05-10 3v engs. The 11-14 cars have wideband o2 sensors up front, the 05-10 engs don't. If I'm on a road trip....and can only buy 91 octane with 10% ethanol, no big deal, I bring along the sct-x3, and back the timing off a few degs, and also increase the fuel by 2%.