swflastang05's build thread

[swflastang05]

FYI the Ford spec is no more than .001" over 4" iirc. You also want that for the block deck.

No cracks on the cylinder walls I assume?

Well, using a level I have and the smallest/thinnest feeler gauge I have which is .0015 I wasn't able to get under the level anywhere, I criss-crossed the head every way I could and the feeler gauge wouldn't slip under neath. I'm going to borrow an actual "straight edge" from a buddy hopefully tomorrow to make 100% sure but so far it seems to be straight. Haven't checked the block yet, will check that with the "real" straight edge. Thanks Bruce.

I can easily reassemble everything but it sure would be nice to have some peace of mind finding something definitive that caused the failure and knowing what I can do different this time to ensure I don't have a repeat.

 

[swflastang05]

Another thing I remembered is when I was torquing the heads down the first time a couple of the studs rotated before hitting the final 100lb value. I wouldn't think that would be an issue right? Since they eventually hit 100lbs and the torque wrench clicked? Also the back studs came loose easier than the rest when I pulled the head, mostly around #4. Maybe that's where it failed.

 

[05stroker]

Did you stretch the studs when you installed them new? I seem to remember my original builder said they had to be torqued 3 times to stretch them.

 

[BruceH]

Another thing I remembered is when I was torquing the heads down the first time a couple of the studs rotated before hitting the final 100lb value. I wouldn't think that would be an issue right? Since they eventually hit 100lbs and the torque wrench clicked? Also the back studs came loose easier than the rest when I pulled the head, mostly around #4. Maybe that's where it failed.

They have been known to break into the water jacket. Hope that didn't happen.

 

[swflastang05]

Did you stretch the studs when you installed them new? I seem to remember my original builder said they had to be torqued 3 times to stretch them.

No I didn't, I torqued them down once when I checked PTV clearance. Then installed the new gasket and final torque values. I'll do that this time though, thanks.

They have been known to break into the water jacket. Hope that didn't happen.

Don't some of them mount into the water jackets anyway? If this did happen would I need to do anything other than apply thread sealer?

 

[swflastang05]

Today my machinist looked at the head gasket and head and he didn't see anything really definitive either, a couple suspect areas but no solid evidence. We agreed the only thing to do now is reinstall that head, set the cam timing up then do another compression test and see if the cranking compression comes back up and go from there. I wish I knew for sure what failed but it doesn't look like I'm gonna have that luxury. He did confirm he used the correct RA finish when he decked the heads so that wasn't the issue. Also mentioned pretty much the same thing as Billy said above about stretching the head studs, he goes through the torque sequence in the instructions then loosens each stud up one at a time, then retorques to the full 100lbs. He suggested I do this to the DS head so I did after work. Oh well new gaskets are on order, should be here Thursday afternoon and if all goes well I'll get to reinstall everything this weekend and try again.
Head cleaned up and ready to be reinstalled

Block ready to go

 

[swflastang05]

Just for some peace of mind, can someone please confirm for me that if all three timing marks are aligned it's impossible for the cam timing to be off? In other words if the L side / DS timing chain blue link is on the "L" on the DS cam phaser and the R side / PS timing chain blue link is on the "R" on the PS cam phaser and both bottom blue links are on the proper crank gear position at 6 o'clock. If not I might degree the cams again just to be 100% sure.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Just for some peace of mind, can someone please confirm for me that if all three timing marks are aligned it's impossible for the cam timing to be off? In other words if the L side / DS timing chain blue link is on the "L" on the DS cam phaser and the R side / PS timing chain blue link is on the "R" on the PS cam phaser and both bottom blue links are on the proper crank gear position at 6 o'clock. If not I might degree the cams again just to be 100% sure.

It depends on the cams... Stock cams you should be fine, but it is always recommended to degree them to verify. The crank gear should have a dot at the 6 o'clock position. But you also need to verify that piston #1 is at top dead center first.

Didn't you put the motor back in your car? You are thinking to pull it out again?

 

[swflastang05]

I pulled the PS head with the motor still in the car. I'm just paranoid since I didn't find any real solid evidence why that bank had about 40lbs less compression than the other side. (the gasket didn't have any obvious failures) I think about this stuff while I'm waiting for the new gaskets to arrive and after awhile I start second guessing everything, lol. A very simple explanation would be that timing chain skipped time somehow while I was in there, but I don't really think that happened either. I verified both cam phasers were lined up perfectly and the crank key way was at about 10 o-clock so it should have been right, I just wonder was it at all possible for the bottom blue link on that chain to have skipped a tooth on the crank gear and I couldn't see it behind the timing cover? IDK if that's even physically possible but it's stressful to consider it!

 

[BeachMonkey100]

I highly doubt a tooth skipped, though anything is possible. I thought about my timing today too and wondering if it moved any after I primed it lol. I had everything lined up and pulled the tensioner pins, verified the timing again before putting the timing cover on.. primed it later that night and started to spin it over. Funny how you start to second guess things when your mind has time to huh?

I do think though the gasket might have had a flaw in it? if not I would be checking the heads/valves for proper seal, and since it's apart re lap all the valves. might be a little over kill, but it's assurance for peace of mind.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I think it can, especially since you are messing with the chain. Very easy for it to move a tooth or two.

Thats why they sell these wedges:
http://www.shopfreedomracing.com/Timing-Chain-Locking-Wedge-303-1175-303-1175.htm

The engine/crank can move at anytime.

 

[BeachMonkey100]

I think it can, especially since you are messing with the chain. Very easy for it to move a tooth or two.

Thats why they sell these wedges:
http://www.shopfreedomracing.com/Timing-Chain-Locking-Wedge-303-1175-303-1175.htm

The engine/crank can move at anytime.

Just read back over again what he did, now I do agree it's possible it skipped a tooth since he was changing tensioners and chain guides.

 

[swflastang05]

I highly doubt a tooth skipped, though anything is possible. I thought about my timing today too and wondering if it moved any after I primed it lol. I had everything lined up and pulled the tensioner pins, verified the timing again before putting the timing cover on.. primed it later that night and started to spin it over. Funny how you start to second guess things when your mind has time to huh?

I do think though the gasket might have had a flaw in it? if not I would be checking the heads/valves for proper seal, and since it's apart re lap all the valves. might be a little over kill, but it's assurance for peace of mind.

I checked all the valves last night, removed the cam and filled all the ports with water and let it sit for 10 minutes or so and nothing leaked into the chambers so that should be okay. Also had my machinist look at them this week and he did a visual inspection and confirmed the seats looked okay but I did the wet check anyway just to be sure. I hope it was just the freakin' gasket.

Just read back over again what he did, now I do agree it's possible it skipped a tooth since he was changing tensioners and chain guides.

Yea, anything's possible I suppose, I know for 10000% sure both cam phasers were lined up properly on the blue chain links but I didn't pull the timing cover at the time so it is possible one could have skipped. I know for 10000% sure the DS is correct since I have the cover off now, lol. Just need to get it back together and crank it over to see the compression come back up and put my mind at ease, if it doesn't I'll probably end up in a mental ward somewhere, lol

 

[BeachMonkey100]

good deal, long as it checks out heads are fine then. the way its sounding though it does sound like a fluke in the gasket.

Better safe than sorry man, now that its off check it all! lol. all this stuff happening got me second guessing myself wanting to pull it all apart. I have come to the conclusion nothing is wrong and its all in my head haha. kind of the same deal with you, everything was lined up, I pulled the clips off the tensioners checked it again and was lined up put the cover on and turned it over to make sure it was good then primed it.

 

[swflastang05]

Yea, and I ordered a machinist's straight edge that should be at my house when I get home from work today so I can check all that stuff too.

I'm sure your motor will crank right up and run like a raped ape, lol!

This crap will definitely mess with your mind though!

 

[BeachMonkey100]

Yea, and I ordered a machinist's straight edge that should be at my house when I get home from work today so I can check all that stuff too.

I'm sure your motor will crank right up and run like a raped ape, lol!

This crap will definitely mess with your mind though!

Starrett? Always good to double check anyone's work, best shop in the world or a local machine shop that is top notch, always double check it.

I have been pretty prestigious with it, so I guess we will see. I plan to get the transmission, driveshaft and stuff all in Friday night and drop the motor in Saturday and hopefully get it all squared away and possibly cranked up. If not definitely Sunday!

And it definitely will, so many things have played with my head in the past few days now that it's done. I've gone back and looked at pictures and notes lol everything!

 

[swflastang05]

Okay I checked the head and block thoroughly with a machinist's straight edge and everything checked out a-okay. I did find a few studs that were very loose in the block though, took several turns before they bottomed out.
Does anyone know for sure which stud / bolt holes go into the water jacket and require thread sealer? Last time I put the sealer on all of them, figured it can't hurt, maybe a little wasteful but can't hurt.

 

[crownaviation]

The studs are not supposed to go into the water jacket. That can happen when and if the stud is cranked down before assembly. When you torque after the stud can rotate even more and crack the block. That crack can penetrate the water jacket. There is a thread on here about that.

Only hand tight the studs as the instructions dictate. The instructions from arp say "on applications where the stud is inserted into an open water jacket use sealant". Something to that affect but not meant for the 3v

 

[BeachMonkey100]

I was about to say as well, I didn't think they hit any water jackets, unless like crown said you crack the block/blind hole.

 

[swflastang05]

I used an allen socket to thread the studs down until they bottomed out, without applying ANY torque to them at all (I could still turn the studs by hand) is this okay or should they NOT bottom out at all?