Engine Rebuild/Rebuy Advice

[JordanBerk]

Well I was hoping this question would be made obvious for me but after several phone calls it seems that every reman 3v is on permanent backorder making my job a lot harder!

I've wound up with a 2005 GT that was put out of commission by a drivers side cam phaser failure; however, that was several years ago and since then its been sitting with the valve covers off, spark plugs out, etc. I was hoping to go the easy way with a reman and let them deal with rebuilding but have no interest waiting around 6+ months with no eta... Which leaves me with either buying a junkyard engine for $2k or rebuilding.

I guess I'm just curious what you guys would do with it in this situation! Getting an 80k+ mile motor with unknown service history surely doesn't seem ideal to me. I'm willing to go through the process of learning to rebuild the motor but still have questions, if the pistons and cylinder walls look fine is it worth leaving the short block together and just rebuilding valve train/ timing etc? I pulled the motor out of the car a few days ago but haven't taken it apart anymore than it already was. I'm located in southern Missouri so I guess any suggestion on rebuilders in driving distance would be helpful too.

Sorry if this came out super rambley, and thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

You effectively already have a junkyard engine so you could save your $2000 to reman your own.
First check if the engine turns over easily. Since it sat for a long time and the cylinders are probably dry, squirt a little engine oil into each plug hole to lubricate the piston rings before you start. With the plugs out, the engine should turn with minimal effort so if it doesn't or if the engine's locked up altogether, you'll need to pull the heads off up top and the oil pan from below to investigate further. If the engine turns at least two full revolutions without any problem, inspect each cylinder with a borescope. Look for any signs of piston to valve contact in addition to any cylinder wall scoring. Also pull the cam caps off one at a time and check for any scoring of the caps/cam journals (a sign of oil starvation), and check if the cam lobes show any significant wear.
In the best case scenario you might only need to replace the camshaft drive system, oil pump, and cam followers/lash adjusters to get the engine purring again.
In the worst case scenario, there might have been piston to valve contact due to a skipped timing chain and the damage could be far more serious.
Let us know what you find and post some photos.

 

[JordanBerk]

Thanks for the reply Dino! I should be able to borrow a borescope tomorrow I'll report back with some more detailed pictures

 

[JordanBerk]

I’ll have to wait for a Amazon borescope to come in to look inside the engine but I’m afraid this tells me all I need to know.. Cam journals show some serious grooves and the cams even got surface rust on it.
Also I was gifted with a broken spark plug This is looking like a ‘down to block’ rebuild isn’t it?

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

Unfortunately the heads and cams are junk so you might as well pull the heads off. If the pistons & cylinder walls look OK, the short block might at least still be salvageable. You might want to pull the oil pan to check if all is well at the bottom end.

 

[Kev555]

Out of curiosity what is a ball park price on a 3v rebuild if you have a good bottom end and rough price for a full rebuild?

 

[Laga]

Out of curiosity what is a ball park price on a 3v rebuild if you have a good bottom end and rough price for a full rebuild?

This past summer I paid $9K ,P&L,for the rebuild and install of forged internals, but using existing crank on my 05. This included rods, pistons, bearings, and all new valve train and timing parts, reused existing valves and 3 year old aftermarket cam. The heads were ported just enough to smooth them out. The cylinders were honed, and the block was line bored. The crank and cam were polished. With FI and E85, I was at the limits of the stock rods and decided I wanted something that was going to last a long time. Since I wasn’t going to go over 600 RWHP, or over 7K redline, the stock crank is more than capable for that level. Plus it saved me the $1K for a forged crank. I had gotten multiple quotes, and this was right in the middle. Some shops were much higher, and others had long waiting lists because parts are hard to get and they were backed up. This did not include the removal or reinstall of the engine.

 

[Juice]

Engine replacement based on cost, from most expensive to least expensive:
1 build it, (this will also take the longest time)
2 buy reman engine
3 buy used complete& running engine.

I did not address availability of parts, or specific needs. (Not stock replacement).

 

[Kev555]

Thanks for replies, Sorry I should have said price for a stock rebuild. My own engine seems fine atm but it has 105,000 miles on it and i do thrash it a bit at times. I'm not interested in upgrading from stock unless a supercharger possibly at some point if ever.

 

[Joe combs]

Thanks for replies, Sorry I should have said price for a stock rebuild. My own engine seems fine atm but it has 105,000 miles on it and i do thrash it a bit at times. I'm not interested in upgrading from stock unless a supercharger possibly at some point if ever.

105k miles... is just broke in... lol

 

[pass1over]

Yea, I have 196k on my 2012 GT and it's still running strong. You don't have to worry about rebuilding that engine for a long time.

 

[Juice]

Thanks for replies, Sorry I should have said price for a stock rebuild. My own engine seems fine atm but it has 105,000 miles on it and i do thrash it a bit at times. I'm not interested in upgrading from stock unless a supercharger possibly at some point if ever.

Change oil regularly.
Do not overheat it.
That will keep it running for a long time.

Indicators of issues developing:unusual new noises. Oil consumption increase.

 

[86GT351]

Out of curiosity what is a ball park price on a 3v rebuild if you have a good bottom end and rough price for a full rebuild?

Very generic question. Depends on your plans for the car and budget.

 

[Kev555]

Thanks for answers, I know v8,s are reliable just heard different reports about these 3 valves. theres not much chance of overheating it here in Ireland unless in two months of the year but thanks for the heads up, think i will give it a flush and coolant change over the winter to make sure. Think I've hijacked enough of Jordans thread. Sorry Jordan

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

Out of curiosity what is a ball park price on a 3v rebuild if you have a good bottom end and rough price for a full rebuild?

It depends on your goal, the garage labour rates in your area if you aren't doing the work yourself, and the cost of parts (which can vary widely depending on where and what you buy).

For a valvetrain refresh you'd need the Ford Performance camshaft drive kit, Ford Performance cam follower/lash adjuster kit, and timing cover/valve cover gaskets. I'd also strongly recommend replacing the oil pump at the same time so add an oil pan gasket to the parts list as well.

A bottom end rebuild would significantly add to the cost, and the amount depends on how far you need to go.
The minimum would be to replace all the rod bearings and you can do those with the engine still in the car. If they're severely worn (the upper bearing shells wear out faster), you'd also need to replace the main bearings (the lower bearing shells wear out faster here). If you have high oil consumption and need to replace piston rings, the heads would need to come off in order to remove the rod/piston assemblies. If the cylinder walls are glazed, they'd need to be rehoned. The heads would also need to be skimmed flat and new gaskets/head bolts used. Before reinstalling the heads, use the opportunity to replace the valve stem oil seals. Depending on your budget you could go further by having the heads ported, upgrade the valve springs, and swap in aftermarket cams.
If you're planning to add forced induction and are aiming at over 450rwtq, this is the time to swap in a set of forged rods/pistons. The stock crank is fine up to 700rwhp, and those who upgrade to a forged unit tend to use the opportunity to add displacement with a stroker kit.
Now you begin to realise how the cost of an engine rebuild can vary quite a bit.

 

[JordanBerk]

Thanks for answers, I know v8,s are reliable just heard different reports about these 3 valves. theres not much chance of overheating it here in Ireland unless in two months of the year but thanks for the heads up, think i will give it a flush and coolant change over the winter to make sure. Think I've hijacked enough of Jordans thread. Sorry Jordan

lol Not at all! This was exactly the kinda discussion I was hoping would happen However if anyone is still following along for my engine I think I've actually been able to source a reman! It was about $4k so not the absolute cheapest way to go definitely, and I'm still wondering if I shouldn't put a melling oil pump and name brand timing set on it while it's out since you never know what quality of parts you're getting until you open it up.. Who knows maybe I'm worrying about nothing, I just know as long as I can get my car put back together I'll be happy!

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

lol Not at all! This was exactly the kinda discussion I was hoping would happen However if anyone is still following along for my engine I think I've actually been able to source a reman! It was about $4k so not the absolute cheapest way to go definitely, and I'm still wondering if I shouldn't put a melling oil pump and name brand timing set on it while it's out since you never know what quality of parts you're getting until you open it up.. Who knows maybe I'm worrying about nothing, I just know as long as I can get my car put back together I'll be happy!

$4k is quite pricey for a reman engine so it better have a good warranty. Who's the supplier?
If your existing short block is OK, all you need to do is buy a pair of heads from eBay, add a pair of cams (good opportunity for a mild upgrade), rebuild the valvetrain, replace the oil pump, and you'd be good to go for about half the expense.

 

[JordanBerk]

Hey! I don't know if anyone remembers this post and... Holy crap has it really been that long??!? Sorry to take so long but hey, such is life. Long story short is I HAVE A MUSTANG AGAIN! and I thought I'd come back and update you guys in case anyone else is trying to decide what to do with their blown-up car, or just in case anyone was curious how it turned out!
I ended up buying the re-man'd engine (instead of trying to rebuild) for a lot of reasons but mostly it was to make the job easier I have minimal mechanic experience, but more importantly I didn't have a garage to do any of the work in so everything had to be done in my drive way! I still want to rebuild an engine some day but hopefully it'll be on a different project lol.
Even adding in all the random tools and such along the way, as well as Pypes Short tube headers, under drive pulleys, Exdedy Mach 400 clutch, and BMR poly motor mounts, I was still well under the $7500 I was quoted by a local shop to drop in a sealed,150k mile, junkyard engine PLUS im up all the experience and knowledge I've gained doing the swap I'm sure the whole thing could've been done cheaper and faster (It passed inspection and was licensed in early February, for a timeline) but neither of those things were my goal. My goal was to get the car back on the road and, for now, I accomplished it!

 

[lacofdfireman]

Hey! I don't know if anyone remembers this post and... Holy crap has it really been that long??!? Sorry to take so long but hey, such is life. Long story short is I HAVE A MUSTANG AGAIN! and I thought I'd come back and update you guys in case anyone else is trying to decide what to do with their blown-up car, or just in case anyone was curious how it turned out!
I ended up buying the re-man'd engine (instead of trying to rebuild) for a lot of reasons but mostly it was to make the job easier I have minimal mechanic experience, but more importantly I didn't have a garage to do any of the work in so everything had to be done in my drive way! I still want to rebuild an engine some day but hopefully it'll be on a different project lol.
Even adding in all the random tools and such along the way, as well as Pypes Short tube headers, under drive pulleys, Exdedy Mach 400 clutch, and BMR poly motor mounts, I was still well under the $7500 I was quoted by a local shop to drop in a sealed,150k mile, junkyard engine PLUS im up all the experience and knowledge I've gained doing the swap I'm sure the whole thing could've been done cheaper and faster (It passed inspection and was licensed in early February, for a timeline) but neither of those things were my goal. My goal was to get the car back on the road and, for now, I accomplished it!
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Nice job. Who did you buy the reman engine from. I’m looking at possibly doing the same as I’m not sure mine is rebuildable at this point. Bent valve.

Also did you pull the engine out of the top of your car or out of the bottom? Did you pull engine and trans together at the same time? I’ll be doing mine in my driveway also and heard it’s best to lift the car and pull the engine out of the bottom. That just doesn’t seem right to me.

Any idea on how many hours to pull your engine? Sounds like we have about the same mechanical abilities.

 

[ESP41]

Taking the engine out from the bottom works great if you have a lift. The car has to be quite high to roll the engine out from under it.

in the driveway, I would cherry pick it from the top. If you have limited experience pulling one, take your time and lots of pictures. Label bolts in bags, or put them back. Many years (decades) ago I pulled my 1st engine from the top. It took all day. Expect challenges. Rusted bolts, hard to get to bolts, raising and lowering the car on jack stands, etc. A friend helping will make things go much faster. Overall it is a fun learning experience.