Help me buy a nitrous set up.

[JUICEDSTANG]

The Brand X solenoids come with a lifetime warranty and will open at 1100+psi.




A way to retard timing would be beneficial also

Like i said above, i was in the ls crowd for awhile. I also went by this when choosing solenoids. I would only buy a kit with large based solenoids after reading this from another respected sponsor like harris

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/nitrous-oxide/683477-cute-little-solenoid-story.html

I typically leave that out when offering advice since buying an external device isnt the only way to go. To me the things i listed are a must. You can pull timing through the tune if you dont care about NA performance suffering slightly

 

[chopstix]

Understand where you are coming from, but it is imperative to look at solenoid orifice to coil strength ratio. The vast majority of "cute" solenoids use a large orifice size, to increase flow" but a weak coil. This creates an issue as the pressure is what keeps the solenoid closed. If the coil can't create a strong enough magnetic field to overcome the pressure the solenoid will not open.

 

[Narsh]

I am running the NX Plate kit with a 125 shot and couldn't be happier. With bolt on's and a the 125 shot I hit 427/512 to the wheels. Up from 322/332 N/A.

 

[JUICEDSTANG]

Understand where you are coming from, but it is imperative to look at solenoid orifice to coil strength ratio. The vast majority of "cute" solenoids use a large orifice size, to increase flow" but a weak coil. This creates an issue as the pressure is what keeps the solenoid closed. If the coil can't create a strong enough magnetic field to overcome the pressure the solenoid will not open.

Whats the point in going with the small based solenoid to begin with? You know you are going to have reliability and consistency with a large base solenoid all the time, one which will probably last a lot longer as well. A warranty is great and all, but if i go to a track event and it suddenly doesnt have the strength due to wear, to open, im gonna be pissed.

I read the entire thread so i know where you were getting all that from and i certainly understand it. I just don't see the point of not going with large base noids to begin with. I dont know why anyone would design a noid with a coil that isnt strong enough to open given X orfice size and X pressure.

 

[chopstix]

I dont know why anyone would design a noid with a coil that isnt strong enough to open given X orfice size and X pressure.

That is my point, some companies use a coil that does not have the ability to open above 950psi...small or large base...this is much more prevelant with small solenoids.

One way to get an idea how strong the coils are is the Amp draw of the solenoid. A very low amp draw could be an indicator of low coil strength.

 

[JUICEDSTANG]

That is my point, some companies use a coil that does not have the ability to open above 950psi...small or large base...this is much more prevelant with small solenoids.

One way to get an idea how strong the coils are is the Amp draw of the solenoid. A very low amp draw could be an indicator of low coil strength.

A coil can draw a shitload of amps with a million windings, that's not going to make a lick of difference if the solenoid is hot. The fact of the matter is a large base solenoid will dissipate heat quicker than a small base solenoid. There is no disputing that and heat is a bigger enemy than anything for a solenoid...so I look for a solenoid that has the proper heat rated coil as well as size. Besides, you can have a solenoid open all the way to 1500psi, but do I really want my system to open at that pressure? And do I really want my motor sporting A cup tits when she can instantly go DD? And that any more than a handful bs if for the birds and the small handed sissies

 

[JUICEDSTANG]

That is my point, some companies use a coil that does not have the ability to open above 950psi...small or large base...this is much more prevelant with small solenoids.

One way to get an idea how strong the coils are is the Amp draw of the solenoid. A very low amp draw could be an indicator of low coil strength.

lol ok so companies build solenoids based around the idea of it NOT opening under pressure? I tune all my kits for 850-900, so i probably could use just about any solenoid. BUT, i know there are several kits out suggesting PSI as high as 1050, so why would a company put a coil on it which they know wont open.

im not doubting you, as i know i have seen small based solenoids struggle under higher pressure. im just curious how you came to get this information. Like what companies are you talking about?

 

[matt texass]

. im just curious how you came to get this information. Like what companies are you talking about?

He lives and breathes nitrous for a living. He has been around the block more than one.

 

[JUICEDSTANG]

He lives and breathes nitrous for a living. He has been around the block more than one.

I'm no newbie either, been spraying cars since the early 90's. As i mentioned, i know there are certain solenoids that either do, or will have problems opening under pressure. that wasnt my point though.

 

[matt texass]

I'm no newbie either, been spraying cars since the early 90's. As i mentioned, i know there are certain solenoids that either do, or will have problems opening under pressure. that wasnt my point though.

I wasn't saying you were a newbie. I was just letting you know where he got his information from. He has been doing this for a very long time and does this 365 days a year. I'm sure Ray will agree with me when I say to stick with NX, Brand X or Nitrous Outlet solenoids if you want to avoid nitrous solenoid issues. I know for a fact that most of the solenoids that come with the NOS kits have life issues at and above 1000 psi.

 

[JUICEDSTANG]

I wasn't saying you were a newbie. I was just letting you know where he got his information from. He has been doing this for a very long time and does this 365 days a year. I'm sure Ray will agree with me when I say to stick with NX, Brand X or Nitrous Outlet solenoids if you want to avoid nitrous solenoid issues. I know for a fact that most of the solenoids that come with the NOS kits have life issues at and above 1000 psi.

completely disagree with that, i think there are many other reliable solenoids out there. I've used and worked with just about all there is out there, including brand x and NX. NX was my choice for a very long period of time. The brand x is a cheap kit, you cant argue that and when it comes to purchasing, for me you get what you pay for. As for nitrous outlet, nice products, just never cared for the BS sales tactics everyone saw on ls1tech. If it wasnt for that i would have bought from them as well. Dynotune and HSW were the only ones i worked with there.

I really dont see the big hoopla with the noid debate. There are only so many design changes you can make and VERY few manufacturors of solenoids in the country. My only arguement was why waste time with small base noids, i dont care what brand. Go large base and your set from 50-300 or more. I am sure even ray would agree, save your money and go with a nitrous outlet plate kit than a plate kit with brand x components.

 

[matt texass]

just never cared for the BS sales tactics everyone saw on ls1tech.

LOL

 

[JUICEDSTANG]

LOL

You said go with one of those three, i am giving you my opinion. And dont waste time replying to one line of what i wrote. I'm talking about solenoids, i really dont care to talk about brands. Reply to one of my technical statements if you want to argue with me, ill be impressed at that point.

 

[chopstix]

lol ok so companies build solenoids based around the idea of it NOT opening under pressure? I tune all my kits for 850-900, so i probably could use just about any solenoid. BUT, i know there are several kits out suggesting PSI as high as 1050, so why would a company put a coil on it which they know wont open.

im not doubting you, as i know i have seen small based solenoids struggle under higher pressure. im just curious how you came to get this information. Like what companies are you talking about?

Most nitrous manufactures offer small base solenoids designed for a normal operating flow of 35-150hp with a max of 175-200hp. This is done for multiple reasons size, cost, and knowing some customers will never need to flow more than the limits of these solenoids. They also know the operating pressures of the system and do not suggest running bottle pressures above the open limits. But there are times where pressures will exceed these parameters.

Where this is the biggest issue is the purge solenoid. Virtually every nitrous company uses a small base solenoid for their purge kits. A purge solenoid should be able to open at "ANY" pressure. This is for system safety yet many companies solenoids will not open under high (1000psi+) bottle pressure. A purge has two functons, #1 is to remove air and gaseous nitrous from the feed line, #2 is to reduce bottle pressure when needed. Lets say on a hot day you glance at your bottle pressure and it is up past 1500psi, if your purge solenoid won't open your only option is to find someway to cool the bottle off.

You mention heat is a factor, and you are correct. That is why solenoids are "short term" use only. Nitrous manufacturers put their parts through extensive testing before releasing it for sale. This will include applying external heat sources to the solenoids and finding what pressure the solenoids will still open at with extreme temperatures.

Now I did not mean for this to turn into a "whats better" thread and hope this discussion can remain purely technical as that is what is most beneficial to all who read this. This is the reason I try to leave company names out, Brand names tend to bring emotion into a technical discussion.

 

[chopstix]

And do I really want my..... sporting A cup tits when she can instantly go DD? And that any more than a handful bs if for the birds and the small handed sissies

 

[matt texass]

Reply to one of my technical statements if you want to argue with me, ill be impressed at that point.

I was just responding to the dig you gave Nitrous Outlet. I was just responding to your opinion with one of mine. I never once argued with one of your tech points or even addressed it. Good day sir.

 

[JUICEDSTANG]

I was just responding to the dig you gave Nitrous Outlet. I was just responding to your opinion with one of mine. I never once argued with one of your tech points or even addressed it. Good day sir.

Dig? More of an observation than anything. i didnt know LOL is an opinion. Ok, so your not talking about tech related points, so why bother replying and wasting peoples time? Guess every site has their nut swingers. I'm talking about technical issues, if you can't keep up or don't know anything about it, then just dont reply, its pretty simple.

 

[matt texass]

As for nitrous outlet, nice products, just never cared for the BS sales tactics everyone saw on ls1tech.

I didn't know that was tech.

 

[matt texass]

In reference to the original posters questions:

I would stick with either NX, Nitrous Outlet or HSW. These are traditionally more expensive kits but JUICEDSTANG made an excellent point when he said you get what you pay for. I would not skimp on anything for your system. If you do it right the first time you will end up being richer and happier. I am going to assume that you are installing the system yourself. If wiring is not your thing I would recommend the NX plate kit because it comes pre-loomed and as pre-wired as it can. I would consider all 3 of these kits equal so in the end how your car performs will not depend on the brand kit under your hood but how well it was installed.

Here is an actual picture of the NX kit-

You can see in the picture all the loomed wire and the connections to the solenoids- the kit comes like that from NX making it a very easy install, avoiding many of the wiring problems that seem to show up with nitrous kits.

As far as extras go I would get the same 3's accessories packages. But, def. as already stated make sure you have plugs, blow down tube and a window switch at a minimum.

 

[JUICEDSTANG]

I didn't know that was tech.