My 5.4L 3V N/A build thread

[Matt D]

good job catching that, keep us posted

 

[spyder7724]

so i spoke with the company that makes the lifters (lash adjusters) i used today. the said i'll have to machine down the nuts so they fit. uh...$600 and i have to grind them to fit
seems the points on the nuts are .008"-.010" too large to fit in the lifter bore also i measured the depth and they must sit about .070" into the hole for the lifter to bottom out. seems my lifters weren't even close to bottom. no wonder they loosened up immediately. anyone else thats ever used them and had problems was most likely having the this issue. the manufacturer said they had experienced this with mistsubishi engines but not mod motors....probably because no one else runs them wish i had bought the non adjustable shim type solid lifters now.

 

[470 GT/CS]

Oh no!!! This sucks man, I hope you can get the motor done soon, I want to see what power this thing makes!

 

[spyder7724]

Oh no!!! This sucks man, I hope you can get the motor done soon, I want to see what power this thing makes!

dropped off the lifters at my buddy's CNC place to be redesigned so they actually work. should have them back this week and then i get to spend an entire day adjusting my valves again.
anyone thinking of switching to a solid lash adjuster (lifter) i would strongly suggest using a solid version that has shims.
I'm also going to disassemble a stock hydraulic lifter and see how they are designed to see if there is someway of re-engineering them. it would be great if there was a limited travel anti-pump up lifter available for these engines. then you could run crazy cams\lots of spring pressure and not have to worry about valve float at high rpms.
one thing i found during my measurements with this problem is that i had no where near the valve lift i was supposed to and this thing still ran really good. i had lost about .040" lift which i will regain once this is fixed. that should be worth some extra power

 

[470 GT/CS]

dropped off the lifters at my buddy's CNC place to be redesigned so they actually work. should have them back this week and then i get to spend an entire day adjusting my valves again.
anyone thinking of switching to a solid lash adjuster (lifter) i would strongly suggest using a solid version that has shims.
I'm also going to disassemble a stock hydraulic lifter and see how they are designed to see if there is someway of re-engineering them. it would be great if there was a limited travel anti-pump up lifter available for these engines. then you could run crazy cams\lots of spring pressure and not have to worry about valve float at high rpms.
one thing i found during my measurements with this problem is that i had no where near the valve lift i was supposed to and this thing still ran really good. i had lost about .040" lift which i will regain once this is fixed. that should be worth some extra power

Good luck, I hope this thing makes over 430rwhp.

.040'' is pretty considerable lift, it's almost like changing to a larger cam grind.

 

[JJ@WMS]

This car is no joke fella's. If Ron doesnt post a video of how it sounds I will. It is flat out bad ass and revs up so quick that it feels like it on nitrous all the time.

I have the pleasure of tuning it and so far so good. There has been alot of interest in E85 tuning and I do quite a few Lightnings that run the fuel. The only thing you have to make sure of is that your anything metal that the fuel touches has the proper coating on it so the E85 doesnt eat it up.

I look forward to Ron getting it all fixed up and back here for some serious dyno time but what I really look forward to is when it hits the track.

JJ@WMS

 

[andyman]

I think I speak for everyone when I say that we can't wait to see it in action!!!!!!!!


the first thing i check when i log in to this site is to see if there is anything posted in this thread!!

 

[spyder7724]

This car is no joke fella's. If Ron doesnt post a video of how it sounds I will. It is flat out bad ass and revs up so quick that it feels like it on nitrous all the time.

I have the pleasure of tuning it and so far so good. There has been alot of interest in E85 tuning and I do quite a few Lightnings that run the fuel. The only thing you have to make sure of is that your anything metal that the fuel touches has the proper coating on it so the E85 doesnt eat it up.

I look forward to Ron getting it all fixed up and back here for some serious dyno time but what I really look forward to is when it hits the track.

JJ@WMS

JJ it's coming to you this week
all fixed and sounds even better. no clatter or ticking. somethings i did find though...balancer bolt was pretty loose so before the dyno i'll switch to an ARP bolt. i did use a new stock bolt but now i just don't trust it...also the top bell housing bolts were loose. i know i tightened all this stuff but since my motor mounts are now basically solid i'll have to be very diligent on using loctite and checking stuff once in a while. i may redo the motor mounts so i can install the urethane again. after all it is a "street car"
runs good but still has a bit of hesitation at tip-in. i'm sure JJ will take care of that or i can mess around with that little stuff.
anybody know how much the bolt-in roll bars weigh>
I'm pretty much positive i'll need one but i really want one thats chrome moly and doesn't obstruct the rear window. i talked to one fabricator and saw his version which i have to say is really neat but it is a custom deal and requires me disassembling the interior plus removing the rear window for him. guess i really need to check NHRA's rule book and see what they allow for 6pt. style cages.
also have an electrical gremiln that's affecting my w\p and fan. not sure whats going on cause the relay's check out good.

anybody had a mezeire pump short out> (sorry my question mark isn't working -i'm on my POS laptop) when i first installed it it was whisper quiet but now it's a bit louder. maybe it's shorted out or something.

i can't wait to get it dialed in and tuned now!!

oh and i cleaned the air filter guys

 

[US-1]

Jesel is your friend. About as high dollar as a D.C. hooker but they are your friend.

 

[spyder7724]

Jesel is your friend. About as high dollar as a D.C. hooker but they are your friend.

only reason i went with these is because they said they were adjustable in the engine.....lie. no way. i had to do the same thing and honestly it would have been easier with shims since they had to come out about three times for each follower:
adjust, install lifter and follower, install cam, unbolt cam remove lifter then adjust, install lifter and follower, install cam, unbolt cam remove lifter then adjust, install lifter and follower, install cam, unbolt cam remove lifter then adjust, install lifter and follower, install cam, unbolt cam remove lifter and if it's right move to the next one
repeat 23 more times.
oh and to boot they weren't exactly the best quality. i found burrs on some that prevented them from going down in the bore all the way
these weren't cheap either so yeah money ahead with jesels. i just wish they didn't charge an arm,leg and both nuts for the rockers cause i'd really like to have them. the stock ones are really flimsy stamped crap.

 

[SStang]

Any updates?

Thanks.

 

[spyder7724]

Any updates?

Thanks.

Just waiting on JJ for my dyno time. one thing i did get was an e-85 fuel checker from Quick Fuel Technologies.
JJ had originally thought maybe the first batch of fuel i got was light on ethanol maybe e-70 or something but it checks out at 85% and the next batch i just got checked out 85% as well so it seems the inconsistencies with e-85 aren't a bad as it used to be.
what it does mean is that right now i'm setup really lean so it's a good thing i haven't been running the dog shit out of it cause that could create a big problem.
i'm really getting antsy as to what it is going to run though. if it's lean now and at full weight with spare tire etc. and it runs this good i can only imagine how well it's gonna run trimmed out and tuned correctly.

 

[05yellowgt]

How lean is it running? Are you measuring in terms of Lambda, or is the stoich. point of the gauge set to 14.7 or 9.85?

 

[ChevyKiller]

Jesel is your friend. About as high dollar as a D.C. hooker but they are your friend.

No doubt they are out of this world priced, but they are exceptional pieces and probably worth the extra coin considering what you had to go through Ron.

Glad to see things coming along for you Ron. Hell, you've been on this build about as long (or longer) than I've been on mine. I look forward to the results with interest and expect to see a new N/A 'king'...

 

[spyder7724]

How lean is it running? Are you measuring in terms of Lambda, or is the stoich. point of the gauge set to 14.7 or 9.85?

I know when JJ set it up a few weeks ago he had some trouble using stoich @ 9.85 so he started playing with stuff and it seemed to run better at around 11 or 12 (whatever stoich is for e70) which lead him to think my fuel was a bit off on the mixture. i can't tell using my gauge cause my wideband is setup for gas so it still sees 14.7 as stoich. I'm running 12.2 at wot using my wideband but i can tell it's lean just from all my experience with running alcohol motors. a lean alky motor has a fluttery sound. also the way it idles plus a hesitation and it heats up fast at wot then cools down at an idle.

 

[05yellowgt]

You can read the AFR just fine with a gas calibrated wideband gauge. Stoich for E70 is about 10.7 All wide bands read in terms of lambda and mulitply that times whatever the stoich is set at for the gauge to display anyway. 12.2 shouldn't really be lean. that would be .83 lambda or 8.17 in E85 terms. 12.3-12.5 is where I found my stock motor made the best power on E85 when read on a gas cal'd wideband gauge.

I'm really looking forward to the results. I know it must be killing you not to be able to really romp on it yet.

 

[spyder7724]

You can read the AFR just fine with a gas calibrated wideband gauge. Stoich for E70 is about 10.7 All wide bands read in terms of lambda and mulitply that times whatever the stoich is set at for the gauge to display anyway. 12.2 shouldn't really be lean. that would be .83 lambda or 8.17 in E85 terms. 12.3-12.5 is where I found my stock motor made the best power on E85 when read on a gas cal'd wideband gauge.

I'm really looking forward to the results. I know it must be killing you not to be able to really romp on it yet.

yep. that will fixed as of tomorrow. dyno at 10am.
today i changed the oil\filter and replaced my front springs. went to a 250# front spring. the 175# i had in it were too light for the 4.6 and with the 5.4 it just sat on the bump stops. seems much better now. raised the front about 1.5"
i can't wait to get this thing finally dialed in.

 

[spyder7724]

prelim dyno results:

421rwhp @ 7100 rpms

388ft.lbs. @ 5000rpms (made over 300ft.lbs. from 3000rpms -up)

no gimmicks, all accessories (no short belt) + full exhaust and no iced intake etc.
my MAF was getting near max so we opted not to uncork it and go for something bigger. no doubt we could have hit 450hp if we pulled out a couple tricks but this was really just to get it tuned and see how it performed at WOT
i'm pretty happy and knowing there's more in it makes me even happier. I changed the oil yesterday to synthetic and now my front seal is leaking so i'll replace it and switch back to conventional oil for a bit longer. but all is well.
now just nee to get to the track and datalog some stuff to really dial it in.
i'll post the dyno sheet when JJ sends it over tonight.

 

[MexGT]

awesome Ron, I`d like to hear it too!

 

[05yellowgt]

Nice! Any idea what timing and AFR JJ settled on?