2008 ROUSH Stage 3 Build...Take III

[AutoXRacer]

I'm lost here. What blower did u buy...thought it was a VMP unit ? That VMP gen-2 TVS-2300 would be the real ticket. Most eff of the entire bunch...(eaton tvs-2300). Blower and elbow is one unit. Lowest blower discharge temps (pre-ic) of any TVS-2300 rotor pack assy, least hp to drive it, most boost for a given blower speed, etc.

BTW... did u see the results that DOB is getting with their oem M122 /dob HE /IC /pump etc, running 10 psi boost..and 93 octane ? ( oem was 7 psi on a GT-500 M122).

80 deg f IAT from start to finish on a hard pull. This is with a heat soaked eng to start with. ( 70 deg F ambient air temp at the time of the test). It's written up on the ..."Mustang chit chat" section. He just re-wrote the book on IAT. No more water-meth, no ice required, no E85 required. Check it out. Real eye opener.

I have the GenII blower from VMP Tuning... The first blower that was modified by Stiegy did not perform as expected; its 4 PSI low compared to stock ROUSH R2300.

Today I get the new replacement blower (case and rotor pack). I will be installing it and testing it tonight. Will report the findings. I am really hoping it yields at least stock ROUSH R2300 boost.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I would use that rotor pack in a new housing. I would have used that ported blower - you have to draw the line somewhere.

I thought about it. But it really bothered me that I was spinning that blower much faster and getting less boost than with the stock ROUSH case; not to mention a lot less HP/TQ.

I tried to suggest Pse superchargers to you , that guy is straight up and did a awesome job on mine

I gave them a call...they would not help me at the time. Said they were too busy. sigh

I still don't understand how shops turn away potential customers.

In hindsight, I should have just bought a new complete blower. Would have been the cheapest option. Lesson learned.

 

[Pentalab]

So steigy took a perfect VMP-gen 2 case..and butchered it..and reduced its eff by a whole bunch, wtf? Then the plot thickens....and your oem eaton straight cut gears some how vanish....and angle cut gears magically show up in their place.

Did u have straight cut gears before u shipped it to steigy ?

The story I got from VMP was their gen-2 blower was 2.15 psi more boost than their gen-1 blower.... with the same pulley setup, and same blower speed. And their gen-1 blower has more boost than the roush blower. And here u are..with 4 psi less than the roush blower. That's like 9 steps backwards.

Dunno why steigy is port crazy. The gen 2 blower is already maxed to the peg on the inlet side..with it's D shaped Q porting. Porting the insides of the blower case is a big no-no. The rotor pack is supposed to be extremely close tolerance to the casing sidewalls, etc. Port the side walls, and eff goes through the floor. That's basic blower design 101.

Ok, so what's the real story on the mystery gear set ?? Did steigy trash the oem straight cut eaton gears.. then decide to install some spare FRPP angled gears they had laying about from a FRPP whipple blower?

 

[eighty6gt]

I'm 100% sure the gears didn't change. Don't believe anything, you have to find out most things for yourself.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Can't answer your questions Pentalab... I honestly don't know about the gears.
I will give the benefit of the doubt that these angle cut gears were used on very early build ROUSH TVSs as I have a long nose (dual belt) which are no longer available/in production.

But yes, after yesterdays preliminary test drive, it is official Stiegemeier butchered my $1,500 VMP GenII case!! I was comparing the new case with the Stiegemeier modded case and the outlet is a world of difference!!

As you can see here, there is quite a difference (left is new GenII case, right is the Stiegemeier ported case):

See the sharp corners of the new case? If you feel all the edges of the lip, its square and sharp:

The Stiegy case is rounded and smooth!!

Rounded edges:

New GenII case is square and sharp:

Another surprising finding is this (look at where the outlet turns into a V 12 o'clock)!!
This is the ported case:

New case:

That peak on the ported case is gone!!!

Long story short, the ported case no longer seals against the rotors!!
Justin did say this ported case would be awesome for a race motor pushing +20 PSI. But for someone like me pushing low boost levels, it no good.

Preliminary test drive resulted in instant 15 PSI readings as soon as you stab the throttle. And mind you this is with the bigger 3.0" pulley. I was getting 13.5 PSI with this pulley on the stock ROUSH blower case. With a 2.8" pulley I was getting 12 PSI (creeps slowly to 14 PSI at the top end) with the Stiegemeier case.

The new case is a world of difference!!

Stabbing the throttle with the Stiegemeier case yielded 7-9 PSI then slowly built boost to 12 PSI and creeped slowly to 14 PSI on the top end.

Stabbing the throttle with the new GenII case, instantly yields 15 PSI...mind you, I only tested it for 1,000 RPM range. I was just trying to see how much boost this thing made. I am fairly confident it will make 16 PSI with a full pull. 2 PSI more than the stock ROUSH case with the same pulley.

This freakin GenII is amazing!!! Can't wait to get this thing tuned!!!
Need to schedule a dyno session!!

 

[ZmanM3]

Good luck tuning!

 

[one eyed willy]

Steggy case gave you turbo lag,lol

 

[stang67]

Stegi's coating on the rotors look bad already scratched like that

 

[AutoXRacer]

Stegi's coating on the rotors look bad already scratched like that

I don't think the rotors are that bad. The rotors were a lot worst than that and still made 13.5 PSI with the stock ROUSH case that was also badly gouged.

The only issue with Steigy is that they ruined a $1,500 blower case!!!
I don't even know how to bring it up to them.

Waiting on the dyno session to print out boost curves and email it to them.

 

[blownGTvert]

I don't think the rotors are that bad. The rotors were a lot worst than that and still made 13.5 PSI with the stock ROUSH case that was also badly gouged.

The only issue with Steigy is that they ruined a $1,500 blower case!!!
I don't even know how to bring it up to them.

Waiting on the dyno session to print out boost curves and email it to them.

You said the case was badly gouged prior to sending it to Steigy for repair. Now you want to go back on them for ruining an already badly damaged part? They did thier best to salvage the case in my opinion.

 

[AutoXRacer]

You said the case was badly gouged prior to sending it to Steigy for repair. Now you want to go back on them for ruining an already badly damaged part? They did thier best to salvage the case in my opinion.

Um...what are you talking about?

I sent Stiegy a brand new VMP GenII ($,1500) case and my ROUSH blower so they can pull out the guts, refinish my rotors and reinstall them into the new GenII case.

They ported a brand new GenII case and ruined it...

My ROUSH case even though it has some gouging, still makes 13.5 PSI (w/3.0" pulley) which is what it always made before and after the incident.
The GenII case they ported, didn't even produce the boost my stock ROUSH gouged case made.

See posts 350 and 358.

 

[blownGTvert]

Um...what are you talking about?

I sent Stiegy a brand new VMP GenII ($,1500) case and my ROUSH blower so they can pull out the guts, refinish my rotors and reinstall them into the new GenII case.

They ported a brand new GenII case and ruined it...

My ROUSH case even though it has some gouging, still makes 13.5 PSI (w/3.0" pulley) which is what it always made before and after the incident.
The GenII case they ported, didn't even produce the boost my stock ROUSH gouged case made.

See posts 350 and 358.

Ok my bad! Too many parts and pieces I got confused!

 

[DiMora]

I still have my stock ROUSH case. But the GenII cases are scarce as this was the very first one they had seen/had their hands on. lol

I've seen multiple threads where Stiegmeier porting ruined a blower. I would call them up and ask for a refund. Send them their paperweight and tell them that porting without R&D = FAIL.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I've seen multiple threads where Stiegmeier porting ruined a blower. I would call them up and ask for a refund. Send them their paperweight and tell them that porting without R&D = FAIL.

The refund for their porting job; $200?
Or refund for the GenII case; $1500?

 

[DiMora]

The refund for their porting job; $200?
Or refund for the GenII case; $1500?

Both. They ruined what was a perfectly good case. I'd ask to send them back their junk and receive a new replacement case - one that is not all hacked up - or the cash value of such.

 

[Pentalab]

"Justin did say this ported case would be awesome for a race motor pushing +20 PSI. But for someone like me pushing low boost levels, it no good."

I don't believe that for a second. The eff would still be in the crapper, and there is no way in hell you could ever get 20 psi with it anyway..not in that butchered up condition. Steigy has no clue what he is doing, and doesn't understand airflow concepts. He obviously didn't test the blower....after he ported it. If typ eaton style pressure maps were plotted on the ported blower vs the vmp gen-2 blower, it would make you gag.

He owes you $1700.00 plane and simple.


"Preliminary test drive resulted in instant 15 PSI readings as soon as you stab the throttle. And mind you this is with the bigger 3.0" pulley. I was getting 13.5 PSI with this pulley on the stock ROUSH blower case. With a 2.8" pulley I was getting 12 PSI (creeps slowly to 14 PSI at the top end) with the Stiegemeier case.

The new case is a world of difference!!

Stabbing the throttle with the Stiegemeier case yielded 7-9 PSI then slowly built boost to 12 PSI and creeped slowly to 14 PSI on the top end.

Stabbing the throttle with the new GenII case, instantly yields 15 PSI...mind you, I only tested it for 1,000 RPM range. I was just trying to see how much boost this thing made. I am fairly confident it will make 16 PSI with a full pull. 2 PSI more than the stock ROUSH case with the same pulley.

This freakin GenII is amazing!!! Can't wait to get this thing tuned!!! "
........................................................................................................................

OK, so steigy mess + 2.8" pulley = 7 psi
VMP-gen2 case + 3.0" pulley = 15 psi

No brainer here folks. ( No doubt the vmp gen-2 case with the smaller 2.8" pulley would yield 16-17 psi). 7 psi vs 17 psi..... wtf. That's not a subtle difference, that's a total disaster. That's not engineering, it's ill conceived. You just lost your big tq hit..which is the whole point behind a PD blower. If you wanted the boost to gradually build up, then you buy a centri blower....or turbo.

$1700 back..and u keep the junk case for evidence. If he balks, threaten to post his porting fiasco from here to mars.

 

[Pentalab]

Gerald
Did you take the longer snout off the oem Roush blower..then re-install it on the new VMP gen-2 casing ?? Seems to me you had the dual belt oem roush setup. Come to think of it, I think you installed the steigy venom cooler on the snout ? Is that snout cooler still part of the overall mix ? Does it work? I think it used the same coolant as used in the IC-HE loop ? If that's the case, the coolant in the HE-IC loop just got hotter. I can't see that reducing IAT's by any significant amount. IF the snout cooler had it's own small air cooled rad + pump, I can see it working.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Gerald
Did you take the longer snout off the oem Roush blower..then re-install it on the new VMP gen-2 casing ?? Seems to me you had the dual belt oem roush setup. Come to think of it, I think you installed the steigy venom cooler on the snout ? Is that snout cooler still part of the overall mix ? Does it work? I think it used the same coolant as used in the IC-HE loop ? If that's the case, the coolant in the HE-IC loop just got hotter. I can't see that reducing IAT's by any significant amount. IF the snout cooler had it's own small air cooled rad + pump, I can see it working.

Yes... They don't make the long nose (dual belt) anymore.
You can get EATON to manufacture you one with a 16 week lead time and $3,800.

Justin did take a short nose, remove the snout and replace my long nose/snout. He couldn't get me a long nose...

The Venom Cooler works. It keeps the nose cool and I haven't noticed any significant increase in IATs. Although, I do not know what they would be without the Venom Cooler. I do assume the heat being extracted from the nose/snout is being dumped into the supercharger cooling system, but I don't think its increasing my overall IAT though. The huge AFCO dual fan heat exchanger should be able to dump all that heat. I think the limiting factor in the whole cooling system is the heat exchanger in the intake manifold.

But who knows, I'm only guessing...

 

[BadPiggy]

I've seen multiple threads where Stiegmeier porting ruined a blower. I would call them up and ask for a refund. Send them their paperweight and tell them that porting without R&D = FAIL.

I'm with Shane on this. I'd ask for a refund but chances are, they won't willingly give it. After they declined, I'd box the case up and ship it back. Take lots of pics for documentation. Save your shipping receipt. File a claim with your CC company. You need to ship it back or there's no claim as you still have the goods.

The absolute WORSE that could happen is your CC company deny the claim and you'd be out the shipping cost of sending the case back. That's a chance I'd take.

 

[hamish]

Gerald
Did you take the longer snout off the oem Roush blower..then re-install it on the new VMP gen-2 casing ?? Seems to me you had the dual belt oem roush setup. Come to think of it, I think you installed the steigy venom cooler on the snout ? Is that snout cooler still part of the overall mix ? Does it work? I think it used the same coolant as used in the IC-HE loop ? If that's the case, the coolant in the HE-IC loop just got hotter. I can't see that reducing IAT's by any significant amount. IF the snout cooler had it's own small air cooled rad + pump, I can see it working.

Every reputable company I talked to told me to stay away from Steigmeir,
Their Venom cooler was a gimmick as I was told.
I personally talked to him and he tried to sell me the moon.
Just take one look at this shit show that our fellow forum member has been through and make an educated guess on how well that cooler works.