3:73 OR 4:10 what do you guys think?

[casper gt]

Thanks man I'm going with the 4.10's because you suggested it.

I think you'll be quite happy with them based on you comments here & elsewher about your desires for the car.

Your car has basically become a track car only with a ton of weight reduction. So not exactly an apples to apples comparison now is it?

seriously? my car doesn't have "a ton of weight reduction" as a matter of fact (well fact as in claimed weight by others) my car is about the heaviest bolt on car to get into the 10's.

it still has a/c, radio, stock brakes, stock k frame, etc.

aside from the bumper supports, everything else was common stuff everyone does, we removed the rear seat & installed a rear seat delete, removed the spare & jack, pass. seat, the car has had a front sway bar delete since the first day I bought it along with an aluminum driveshaft.

the car is also on rts's.

thats it, 3500 + with driver.

it's ok to be miffed that the car has done so well, we both know you were my original hater, remember when you said a 4.10 car couldn't get out of the 12's? I do.

the whole thing up to this point has been to show guys that theres more than one way to get down the track & we will continue on that path with the next planned mods.

I do want to qualify the "more than one way to get down the track" comment by saying there is nothing wrong with either way they are just diffrent, my hat goes off to those who have come before us & I congatulate them on a job well done for setting the bar so high that only 4 bolt on cars have been in the 10's up to this point.

 

[GeorgeInNePa]

The JPC car runs E85 and has lightweight bumpers and other weight reduction done.

What does that have to do with what I posted?

 

[wbt]

I think you'll be quite happy with them based on you comments here & elsewher about your desires for the car.



seriously? my car doesn't have "a ton of weight reduction" as a matter of fact (well fact as in claimed weight by others) my car is about the heaviest bolt on car to get into the 10's.

it still has a/c, radio, stock brakes, stock k frame, etc.

aside from the bumper supports, everything else was common stuff everyone does, we removed the rear seat & installed a rear seat delete, removed the spare & jack, pass. seat, the car has had a front sway bar delete since the first day I bought it along with an aluminum driveshaft.

the car is also on rts's.

thats it, 3500 + with driver.

it's ok to be miffed that the car has done so well, we both know you were my original hater, remember when you said a 4.10 car couldn't get out of the 12's? I do.

the whole thing up to this point has been to show guys that theres more than one way to get down the track & we will continue on that path with the next planned mods.

I do want to qualify the "more than one way to get down the track" comment by saying there is nothing wrong with either way they are just diffrent, my hat goes off to those who have come before us & I congatulate them on a job well done for setting the bar so high that only 4 bolt on cars have been in the 10's up to this point.

I believe that all the 10 sec. N/A bolt on-cars were using the stock k-members when running said times.

Our race weight is very similar. 3,505 on my car and that includes a roll-bar.

Since my last outing I have installed a UPR k-member and their drag spring kit still using the stock shocks and struts. About a 30lbs. weight savings there. Going back out soon to see how the car performs with those changes and then will decide on what's next.

I agree there are multiple ways (combinations) to get down the track.

 

[psfracer]

As stated, the gear ratios of the auto 6 speed make choosing a gear pretty tricky. I think the answer would most definitely change based on what tire you intend on running at the track. I could see 4.10s with a good 28 tall tire, like a M/T ET pro 275. Even with the ridiculous 4.17 1st gear ratio, that tire will handle anything you could possibly throw at it. The Hoosier QTP or the M&H also.

If you are going to stay N/A, look here to see the gearing people are using with the 6R80: http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99581

Unfortunately, the list doesn't show the actual tire size, so that is something I would ask WBT/ Casper / George about.

Now I am going to throw a curve ball..........have you considered leaving the gears alone and changing out the torque converter? I bet that would make a bigger difference.

 

[casper gt]

I believe that all the 10 sec. N/A bolt on-cars were using the stock k-members when running said times.

Our race weight is very similar. 3,505 on my car and that includes a roll-bar.

Since my last outing I have installed a UPR k-member and their drag spring kit still using the stock shocks and struts. About a 30lbs. weight savings there. Going back out soon to see how the car performs with those changes and then will decide on what's next.

I agree there are multiple ways (combinations) to get down the track.

the weight statement was more of a reply to scots comment rather than a blanket statement, that goes for the k-frame as well.

I think it's great you'll be bring the car back out with the new mods, hopefully it will pick up a little (not that I'm saying it's a slouch now, lol).

my cage/etc will be in in the next week along with some tweaks to try & get the weight back down to the 3500ish range.

I'm hoping to see a little deeper into the mid 10's from both cars at some point so IMO it would be awsome if you guys stay n/a.

like I said on the other forum, it would be great to try & meet up & run the cars heads up. best 2 out of 3 maybe?

somewhere in mo. might work out as a good middle ground?

 

[casper gt]

As stated, the gear ratios of the auto 6 speed make choosing a gear pretty tricky. I think the answer would most definitely change based on what tire you intend on running at the track. I could see 4.10s with a good 28 tall tire, like a M/T ET pro 275. Even with the ridiculous 4.17 1st gear ratio, that tire will handle anything you could possibly throw at it. The Hoosier QTP or the M&H also.

If you are going to stay N/A, look here to see the gearing people are using with the 6R80: http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99581

Unfortunately, the list doesn't show the actual tire size, so that is something I would ask WBT/ Casper / George about.

Now I am going to throw a curve ball..........have you considered leaving the gears alone and changing out the torque converter? I bet that would make a bigger difference.

I'm on 295/55 et street radials, just shy of 28, I think wbt runs a full 28.

gears can be tough for shure on these cars, I can tell you from struggling to get the car across at 7+ that 4.10's with the new combo might not be the ticket for us & current testing is revolving around a 4.30/4.56 debate.

as to just a converter vs gears, it seems to be a wash, stock gear converter cars & 4.10 stock converter cars run almost identical times, you really need both to put the car over the top.

 

[wbt]

the weight statement was more of a reply to scots comment rather than a blanket statement, that goes for the k-frame as well.

I think it's great you'll be bring the car back out with the new mods, hopefully it will pick up a little (not that I'm saying it's a slouch now, lol).

my cage/etc will be in in the next week along with some tweaks to try & get the weight back down to the 3500ish range.

I'm hoping to see a little deeper into the mid 10's from both cars at some point so IMO it would be awsome if you guys stay n/a.

like I said on the other forum, it would be great to try & meet up & run the cars heads up. best 2 out of 3 maybe?

somewhere in mo. might work out as a good middle ground?

I gotcha on the k-member/weight stuff. I thought it would be good to mention for those who may not be up to speed.

Good to hear on the roll bar. Chromeoly over mild steel when you get there.

I think MO could be a possibility sometime later this year.
I had some personal stuff come up this past week so I will be staying N/A until the Fall now so we may have some alignment on getting together.

 

[casper gt]

I gotcha on the k-member/weight stuff. I thought it would be good to mention for those who may not be up to speed.

Good to hear on the roll bar. Chromeoly over mild steel when you get there.

I think MO could be a possibility sometime later this year.
I had some personal stuff come up this past week so I will be staying N/A until the Fall now so we may have some alignment on getting together.

I think that would work out good for later in the summer.

 

[kdanner]

MO? They don't even have a 1/4 mile track in that state.

 

[5bites]

MO? They don't even have a 1/4 mile track in that state.

As a person that runs on a 1/4 mile track IN the state of Missouri I beg to differ.

 

[kdanner]

As a person that runs on a 1/4 mile track IN the state of Missouri I beg to differ.

I guess you mean either Mo-Kan or Ozark. I looked at their results and they showed only letting slow cars run 1/4 mile, the rest were 1/8th. I just now looked at both of them on google earth an measured, based on the length of shutdown I don't blame them.

 

[casper gt]

I guess you mean either Mo-Kan or Ozark. I looked at their results and they showed only letting slow cars run 1/4 mile, the rest were 1/8th. I just now looked at both of them on google earth an measured, based on the length of shutdown I don't blame them.

I was just trying to find a half way point, I'm open to suggestions.

 

[5bites]

I've seen 8 second cars run with no chute. 10 second cars all the time. The 1/8 mile thing is class rules not track rules.

In referring to mokan btw. I've yet to go to ozark.

 

[kdanner]

I was just trying to find a half way point, I'm open to suggestions.

Closest to half way I could figure out was Memphis, track is actually in Millington, TN.

 

[casper gt]

Closest to half way I could figure out was Memphis, track is actually in Millington, TN.

I think Memphis would work out fine.

now the question is do we just run our two cars as possible at a scheduled track test & tune or do we set up a bolt on only shootout of sorts at a rental?

kind of a shame their FFW event is coming up so soon, that would be a perfect event for this if their event was later in the year.

 

[racksteris]

4.10 it is...

Got most of the parts, Just waiting on Axle Seal and Differential Cover
Getting it done next week Friday, Along with welding the axle tubes and the reloc bracket's.

Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[casper gt]

4.10 it is...

Got most of the parts, Just waiting on Axle Seal and Differential Cover
Getting it done next week Friday, Along with welding the axle tubes and the reloc bracket's.

Thanks for everyone's help.

good stuff, make shure to give us an update when your done on how you like them.

 

[Greg Hazlett]

And how useless first gear is...

 

[casper gt]

And how useless first gear is...

I can tell you from tons of 4.10 A6 coyote track & street experiance, it's far from useless.

do you need some susp. & d/r's? yes, useless, not by a long shot.

 

[kdanner]

I think you are taking a very narrow view of this right now Larry. Let's see how you do when you are:

A: not at MIR which has a killer starting line
and
B: in the summer heat

I think you'll find things to be very different. A 4.17 first gear with a 4.10 axle is just like a C-4 trans having a 6.95 axle. And you still plan to put even more gear in it than that. It's going to spin on the starting line, and if it recovers in time, when it shifts to 2nd gear at only 60' out it is going to spin again. Why do I think this? Because I've already been there, starting in 2010. You can put a bias slick on there and help band-aid it, but then that's a loss of another tenth.