4.6 Rouchcharged engine temps?

JJ427R

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Anyone out there with a Roushcharged 4.6 have a temp gauge other than stock gauge and know what temp your engine is under normal driving say 45-70 mph. Today was driving mine and temp got up to 210 degrees, pulled into my mechanic and he threw the computer on it, head temps were 212. He did not seem to think this was abnormal, figured it had a bit of heat soak sitting while he connected computer.
I'm thinking it should be running at 180-190. I know the SC adds heat and newer engines run hotter but this seems high to me.
 

redfirepearlgt

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212 or so was normal for the Roush phase 1 SC tune on my 5.0. A 4.6 running a Roush tune will run similar to factory temp ranges. Most engine temps strategies today run hotter for emissions purpose. Retuned by VMP with adding the 170 T-stat and now runs 190ish.
 

JJ427R

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Thanks for response, Should have mentioned I don't have a stock tune, minor mods., 2.49 pulley on SC and Roush CAI with tune by JDM Engineering.
 

JJ427R

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Let me add this, ran It on track at Road America and in 3 laps was up to 230 engine temp and 210 tranny. I assumed 230 was was getting really hot and it felt really hot under the hood. How high temp could I safely go?
 

RocketcarX

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230* is pushing it for extended use. I would got to a 170* thermostat and fresh coolant. Have your tuner drop the fan turn on temperatures and look into the possibly of advancing your timing. All of these things will work to lower running temps.
 

1950StangJump$

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Agree with above. Not sure of your geographic location, and whether you drive this car during the winter, but a cooler thermostat and cooler fan turn-on is definitely something you should consider. On my Kenne Bell setup (summer only car), I'm not sure what thermostat is in it, but the fan is kicking on by 195.
 

Pentalab

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I'm assuming you have a 05-09 car + Roush M90 blower + 2.49" pulley ? How are you measuring cyl head temps / coolant temps / tranny temps.. while driving ?

Oem T stat is 190 F. On my 2010 auto with M90 + oem 73mm pulley ( 2.875).... sitting in the driveway on idle, coolant temps will creep up to 204 F, then low speed fan kicks in. Coolant temps slowly drop to 194 F, then low speed fan shuts off. Then it creeps up again, and the cycle just repeats itself over and over. I had mine tuned by VMP, and they unlocked the SCT-X3 so I can tweak all sorts of stuff, including the low and high speed fan thresholds.
Low speed fan is set at 204F, and high speed fan is set at 212 F. I can adjust both of em a lot lower ( and higher). I can also set the high speed threshold to a lower setting than the low speed threshold.

My cyl head temps are typ 6-8 deg F hotter than the coolant temps, this is normal. Cruising on the hwy at 45-70 mph in OD, coolant temps sit at 198 F, CHT temps sit at 204-206 F. Auto tranny temps sit at 170 F. Fan is OFF. This is all with the oem 190 F T stat. With car moving, you have air passing through the grilles.


Going to a lower T stat only works, if you also reduce both the low + high speed thresholds. Even then, that only works around town..and cruising on the hwy in OD.

On a road course, with sustained high rpm, wot runs, blower on....and esp with that 2.49" pulley, things will get hot..and fast..and stay hot. A lower T stat..and mating lower fan thresholds won't achieve anything. With the 2.49" pulley in there, the M90 is well beyond it's limits..and blower eff is really piss poor at higher rpms. IAT's rise, and everything gets hotter.

My auto tranny temps would rise from 170 F to 200F in just 5-8 secs with M90 on. I installed a 2nd auto tranny cooler in series with the oem unit. Now auto tranny temps only rise to 170-171 F. That problem solved.
The 2010-2012 cars have this semi useless upper grille that impedes air flow. Replaced that with the 7 bar upper grille (fog lamp delete)... and way more airflow through the upper grille. It also eliminated the 2 x 90 bends into the oem snorkel that in turn feeds the oem airbox. Boost is 5.8 psi with oem upper grille. Increased to 6.3 psi with the 7 bar grille. ( the 05-09 cars can use the optional 9 bar upper grille).

The 05-09 Roush cars got the puny Heat exchanger. The 2010 Roush M90 cars got the bigger 18" tall x 21" wide HE.. ( which is also used on the 10+ Roush TVS-2300 cars). The taller HE gets hit by air from both upper + lower grille. Plenty of better HE's are available for the 05-09 cars

Instead of the smaller 2.49 pulley, I went to JBA ceramic LT's, + catted H, + a 94 tune. I ended up with a few hp less than a 2.49 setup, and more tq.

Anytime you have air coming out the top of the dash, the high speed ENG fan will be on. (regardless of whether AC is on or not, or just plane air coming out the top... and regardless of where the heat /cool knob is dialed to, and regardless of what speed the cabin fan is set to).

No doubt JDM has already advanced the timing to max ( for whatever octane you specified)....with blower on, in open loop.

About all you can do is... get more airflow in there with a 9 bar grille... use a bigger, thicker core HE, use 100% synthetic eng oil.. + FRPP oil filter..and engine catch can on driver's side. If that doesn't work, going to the oem 73mm blower pulley, retune, reduced boost for road course use, will help somewhat. LT's will restore your power back to what you had before with the 2.49 pulley. GT-500 style hood vents will dump a lot of heat, esp for your application. Another possible option is to use 100% distilled water (and redline water wetter for both the eng and the HE /IC loops). Then you can extract more heat.

I use aeroforce gauges on the SOS A pillar, plugged into OBD port to read the various parameters..on the fly. Then u know what's normal around town, cruising on the hwy..and on the road course. Then you can also see if any mods make any difference, if any, ..and by how much.
 
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JJ427R

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Good stuff there. My car is 2010 Roush 427R with the M90, 2.49 pulley and the 2011-14 Roush CAI Spoke with JDM a bit ago and they have my Fan set to come on at 200* they said stock is 212*
They recommend not going below a 180 t stat (what I have) as these engines need the heat.


I have a Boss 302 Gauge pod with Autometer Phantom II gauges, Engine Temp, Trans Temp, and Voltage, they are my temp monitors.
I have a Fluidyne triple pass triple flow Radiator as well as the same HE with dual fans. Mishimoto Trans cooler with a fan and larger Performance Automatic Pan.

All of the original ducting around Radiator is removed, I need to add some sheet metal around the outside to direct airflow a bit.
Have another related thread.

http://www.s197forum.com/threads/a-...not-to-trust-kenny-brown-and-fluidyne.134659/
 

Mojo88

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My car is 2010 Roush 'Hammer' with P51 engine and 2.3L SC making 23psi. I installed 170* stat, but have not played with fan settings yet (in my SCT X4), as normal cruising temps stay between 190-200*, which is fine by me.
 

skwerl

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I would recommend a gauge to monitor intake air temps also. This will be more critical than engine coolant temps when you're stuck in traffic in the summer. I had the same setup on my 2009 Bullitt (2010 Roush M90, pulleys and VMP tune) before throwing a TVS1900 on it.
 

RocketcarX

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Why are you blaming the KB cooling set up in your other thread if you obviously have a cooling issue?
 

JJ427R

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I apologize if I offended anyone, that is not my intent at all. I really though the thread was pretty self explanatory, but I guess I was wrong in that assumption, so let me try again and I hope I get it right.

I was as Road America in 2016 and was having issues with my transmission overheating. Kenny Brown Performance was there so I went to them to seek some advise and was directed to call them the following week. We discussed my trans cooling issue and was advised to upgrade the rest of my cooling as well, which good sale people do, they talked me into the Fluidyne Radiator and Heat Exchanger. The trans cooler I had purchased on my own and was planning on installing at the same time.

I purchased and received the parts May of 2017 (after getting car out of winter storage) and my mechanic proceeded to do the install of the radiator. At that point he noticed the factory auto trans cooler had to be removed, as the Fluidyne radiator is deeper and the stand-offs for the trans cooler were further forward. It would not fit He then proceeded to install the HE with dual fans, got to putting the fans on and they would not clear, by at least 3 inches.

At that point we got on the phone with Rich at KB and he seemed surprised it would not fit. We then got their mechanic and mine on the phone to discuss the issue and how we could resolve it. We were given advise to chop part of the front bumper and a couple other things I can't remember right now. Did what they said and go it in. Then proceeded to putting the front fascia back on and lower fascia would not fit, had to cut approximately 5 inches from the back of it to clear the HE

Because of the larger radiator and heat exchanger, and how we mounted the Mishimoto trans cooler directly in front of the radiator, the factory ducting and radiator cover had to be removed, which I have now found on this thread and from others (Thank You everyone on here that posted) is the main part of my cooing issue and causing negative back pressure.

I spoke with Rich at KB today and he claims I should not have had to leave any of the factory ducting or radiator cover out, again claims they should have fit, and now wants me to find out from my mechanic why it specifically would not fit. I contacted my mechanic today and he could not remember specifically as it's been almost a year, need to bring it to him with the original ducting to refresh his memory, but said it would have gone back on if it fit, he would not have just left it off.

I fully trust my mechanic as he has been in business for almost 40 years, done many custom auto's, and was in contact with Kenny Brown's crew regarding all of this.

So what this comes down to is: I was sold parts that did not fit as I was told several times they would, which has led to bigger issues, and the vendor keeps tryin to point fingers elsewhere.

Hope this helps the confusion.....

Thank You all
 

Pentalab

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My car is 2010 Roush 'Hammer' with P51 engine and 2.3L SC making 23psi. I installed 170* stat, but have not played with fan settings yet (in my SCT X4), as normal cruising temps stay between 190-200*, which is fine by me.

How did you manage to get 23 psi ? The oem Hammer was like 14.5 psi. Did you use a smaller blower pulley / and or a bigger diam crank pulley ? Did you retain the oem airbox, or go to a cone style cai? Did you retain the oem twin 60mm tb... or use the bigger FRPP twin 65.... or VMP twin 67 ? That 2010 hammer was a beast. Sleeper car. Most made aprx 518-525 rwhp... in oem roush format.
 

Pentalab

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I did, it sounds more and more like your mechanic isn't up to the job

He got sold a ..'bill of goods'. New frpp eng fan, much thicker eng rad, thicker HE..(with fans to boot, makes the entire HE assy even thicker). As soon as you go to a thicker eng rad, you now have no room for the oem auto tranny rad, so you just lost it right there. The oem tranny rad is sandwiched between oem eng rad.. and oem AC rad. With all the mods to make it all fit, he lost his shrouding around the new eng fan + eng rad.... which just severely compounded the issues. Take the rad cover off, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this combo he has won't fit... without a lot of chopping and hacking. I figured that one out in 2 mins with just a tape measure. The oem power steering rad..with it's round fins is yet another issue on the 2010. It's a tight fit, sandwiched between the back end of HE..and front side of AC rad.

He was sold a ..'solution' for a non problem. His real problem was the auto tranny temps..and that's an easy fix, just install the 3/4" thick B+ M tranny cooler, plumbed in series... and directly below the oem auto tranny cooler.

Nothing to do with his mechanic. Kenny Brown has no clue how to use a tape measure. There is no way in hell that combo he was sold... could ever fit, it can't. I have the same 2010 Auto.

On the Boss 302, they used an eng oil cooler..that was cooled via eng coolant.... hence the eng rad on the Boss 302 was 50% thicker than the GT rad. (1.5" vs 1.0") . Sez 'can't be used with a 11+ automatic'. FRPP sells a thicker eng rad for the 4.6 3V.... and it's 2.0" thick.... same deal... 'can't be used with automatics'.
 
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JJ427R

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He got sold a ..'bill of goods'. New frpp eng fan, much thick eng rad, thicker HE. As soon as you go to a thicker eng rad, you now have no room for the oem tranny rad, so you just lost it right there. The oem tranny rad is sandwiched between oem eng rad.. and oem AC rad. With all the mods to make it all fit, he lost his shrouding around the ne eng fan + eng rad.... which just severely compounded the issues. Take the rad cover off, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this combo he has won't fit... without a lot of chopping and hacking. I figured that one out in 2 mins with just a tape measure. The oem power steering rad..with it's round fins is yet another issue on the 2010. It's a tight fit, sandwiched between the back end of HE..and front side of AC rad.

He was sold a ..'solution' for a non problem. His real problem was the auto tranny temps..and that's an easy fix, just install the 3/4" thick B+ M tranny cooler, plumbed in series... and directly below the oem auto tranny cooler.

Nothing to do with his mechanic. Kenny Brown has no clue how to use a tape measure. There is no way in hell that combo he was sold... could ever fit, it can't. I have the same 2010 Auto.

Thank you very much Pentalab, you explained it very well....

I met with my mechanic this am, the two plastic pieces that go along each side of the radiator were the only pieces left off. They could not be put on because they would not clear the HE or the plumbing that goes to that and the tranny cooler. HE could have hacked those up but chose not to and we really don't believe they would resolve much. I do have my radiator cover, I was thinking there was another piece of ducting below that but there was not.

The only other gap we could really find is the radiator fan housing is maybe 1/8 to a 1/4 of an inch away from the radiator so there is a bit of a gap that air could be pulled thru, but if it was flush against or you to seal it with something, it's probably going to rub on the fins of the radiator and eventually cause a hole.
 

Pentalab

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Thank you very much Pentalab, you explained it very well....

I met with my mechanic this am, the two plastic pieces that go along each side of the radiator were the only pieces left off. They could not be put on because they would not clear the HE or the plumbing that goes to that and the tranny cooler. HE could have hacked those up but chose not to and we really don't believe they would resolve much. I do have my radiator cover, I was thinking there was another piece of ducting below that but there was not.

The only other gap we could really find is the radiator fan housing is maybe 1/8 to a 1/4 of an inch away from the radiator so there is a bit of a gap that air could be pulled thru, but if it was flush against or you to seal it with something, it's probably going to rub on the fins of the radiator and eventually cause a hole.

See my edited post above yours. You might be able to fill the 1/8 - 1/4 gap with black duct tape. That black gorilla tape sticks damn good, comes in black or grey. The silver duct tape that furnace folks use will also work..and takes a lot of heat.

The 7 bar upper grille is one mod that might save the day... + possibly filling in above 1/8 - 1/4 gap. But you will lose your oem fog lamps. The American muscle version mounts in 6 places. The Roush version mounts in just 4 x places. The 'Mr Body kit' version mounts in 6 places. The Roush version is overpriced imo. But any version will work..and they all look identical. Don't mess with AM's lower grille... u don't need it..and it impedes airflow.. way too many slats on it.

At least with the 7 bar grille in there, you will get a bunch more air into the config u have. It looks a lot better too.
 

JJ427R

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See my edited post above yours. You might be able to fill the 1/8 - 1/4 gap with black duct tape. That black gorilla tape sticks damn good, comes in black or grey. The silver duct tape that furnace folks use will also work..and takes a lot of heat.

The 7 bar upper grille is one mod that might save the day... + possibly filling in above 1/8 - 1/4 gap. But you will lose your oem fog lamps. The American muscle version mounts in 6 places. The Roush version mounts in just 4 x places. The 'Mr Body kit' version mounts in 6 places. The Roush version is overpriced imo. But any version will work..and they all look identical. Don't mess with AM's lower grille... u don't need it..and it impedes airflow.. way too many slats on it.

At least with the 7 bar grille in there, you will get a bunch more air into the config u have. It looks a lot better too.

Good suggestion with the tape,
I never use those lights anyway so the grill and hood vents are my next options, more money to solve a cooling problem I didn't previously have.... I'm about ready to pull it all out and put the oem back in it.... I should take them to conciliation court and get all my money back.....
 

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