Airiad intake and install

[RSKtakR]

How can you feel no difference? The tune adds at least another 15rwhp. Plus the throttle response should be a lot better and your red line should be moved up between 7000-7300 and skip shift eliminated. Who did your tune? Take it to the track and test one with and without tune. I read the Airaid puts down 11 rwhp without tune.

he is talking about a tune for the insert being out of the CAI, not just an aftermarket tune. we allready have tunes on our cars that DO make a difference, but he is saying that this specific tune (for no insert in) doesnt feel much different if any from a regular aftermarket tune.

 

[DIB5.0]

he is talking about a tune for the insert being out of the CAI, not just an aftermarket tune. we allready have tunes on our cars that DO make a difference, but he is saying that this specific tune (for no insert in) doesnt feel much different if any from a regular aftermarket tune.

Sorry i see what you are saying. Yea i doubt you will feel any increase on the butt dyno. What could it gain maybe 5rwhp?

 

[Modshack]

being about 10mm larger ID w/ the insert OUT.. i would think it would make a difference in airflow SOMEHOW.. but i also remember on my 06gt that it didnt seem to help any #'s either.. which leads to the question.. why do they design it like that? ?

The difference between 85mm and 95mm results in a 25% increase in surface area of the intake tube diameter (run the calculations). This is huge. If your tuner can't get some improvements with that much more air he's doing something wrong. It will require changes in MAF scaling as well as fuel.

 

[RSKtakR]

The difference between 85mm and 95mm results in a 25% increase in surface area of the intake tube diameter (run the calculations). This is huge. If your tuner can't get some improvements with that much more air he's doing something wrong. It will require changes in MAF scaling as well as fuel.

its actually 90mm and 100mm (my dims were 89.xxx mm and 99.xxx mm).. its not just MY tuner.. its every tuner i have talked to..BBR, VMP, BAMA. they have all said the samething,that it would only make a difference if the motor had cams and head work for more airflow.

how are you getting 25% more airflow??? what formula are you using? i end up w/ about 10% difference between the 90mm and 100mm.. ? ?

 

[wbt]

To reiterate, regardless of how much increased area is made available, if the VE of the motor doesnt require it for optimal performance, it will not do any good. Same principle applies to head porting. Larger ports are not always better if the area becomes larger than the VE of the motor. In most cases, it reduces performance.

 

[RSKtakR]

To reiterate, regardless of how much increased area is made available, if the VE of the motor doesnt require it for optimal performance, it will not do any good. Same principle applies to head porting. Larger ports are not always better if the area becomes larger than the VE of the motor. In most cases, it reduces performance.[/QUOTE]

i have heard this about removing the insert on the 05-10 CAI design, nothing much on the 11 CAI design, but i would expect that it might be the same at some point.

 

[Modshack]

its actually 90mm and 100mm (my dims were 89.xxx mm and 99.xxx mm).. its not just MY tuner.. its every tuner i have talked to..BBR, VMP, BAMA. they have all said the samething,that it would only make a difference if the motor had cams and head work for more airflow.

how are you getting 25% more airflow??? what formula are you using? i end up w/ about 10% difference between the 90mm and 100mm.. ? ?

I guess I was quoting the Steeda figures (85 to 95)...You need to calculate the square inch area of the opening. It's not just the 10% diameter increase. A small increase in ID makes a BIG difference in how flow is measured across the MAF. Steeda has tuned for the 95mm. Maybe anything larger gains no benefit as noted above. It's very possible that The MAF signal may become so reduced at the higher diameter that it cannot be compensated for. I make large MAF tubes for Audi's and VW's so have some experience here and have run across the upper limiting diameter occasionally depending on application... More is only better up to a limit which I guess the Air raid has hit..

Some more theory at my site here: http://www.modshack.info/bamm.htm

 

[RSKtakR]

I guess I was quoting the Steeda figures (85 to 95)...You need to calculate the square inch area of the opening. It's not just the 10% diameter increase. A small increase in ID makes a BIG difference in how flow is measured across the MAF. Steeda has tuned for the 95mm. Maybe anything larger gains no benefit as noted above. It's very possible that The MAF signal may become so reduced at the higher diameter that it cannot be compensated for. I make large MAF tubes for Audi's and VW's so have some experience here and have run across the upper limiting diameter occasionally depending on application... More is only better up to a limit which I guess the Air raid has hit..

Some more theory at my site here: http://www.modshack.info/bamm.htm

ok well im getting the 10% like this:

100mm or 3.937" x pie=314.1 dia/circ.
90mm or 3.5433" x pie=282.7 dia/circ.
282.7/314.1=.90 so 282 is 90% of the 314 which means only a 10% gain. Am I doing this wrong?
ALSO. the 90mm I.D. insert is only about 6" long, and right where the MAF is (in the middle of the 6" long 90mm I.D. insert), so about 3" after that MAF the intake tube goes back up to the 100mm, and 3" BEFORE the MAF is 90mm.

im by NO means a math wiz or anything lol.. im just curious is all.

 

[JDM74]

The area of a 100mm circle is (Pi)*(50)^2 or 7854 mm^2. The area of a 90mm circle is 6362 mm^2. That is a 12.3% increase in area through which the air is flowing. This doesn't tell the whole picture though because amount of air flow also depends on the velocity of the air through the pipe. If you increase the diameter of the pipe but the air velocity slows down, you may not be flowing any more air. It all depends on where the restriction in the intake tract is.

 

[RSKtakR]

The area of a 100mm circle is (Pi)*(50)^2 or 7854 mm^2. The area of a 90mm circle is 6362 mm^2. That is a 12.3% increase in area through which the air is flowing. This doesn't tell the whole picture though because amount of air flow also depends on the velocity of the air through the pipe. If you increase the diameter of the pipe but the air velocity slows down, you may not be flowing any more air. It all depends on where the restriction in the intake tract is.

true.. if the diameter increases (for the 6") wont the velocity drop, and hurt performance?

 

[JDM74]

true.. if the diameter increases (for the 6") wont the velocity drop, and hurt performance?

Only if the current flow limiting restriction is located somewhere else, for example the throttle body.

Usually the airbox and intake tract to the TB is the first (and biggest) compromise in the flow path to the combustion chamber so you will typically see gains from a larger path there.

 

[Modshack]

im by NO means a math wiz or anything lol.. im just curious is all.

Sorry...I calc'd on the 85-95. Go here: http://www.1728.com/diam.htm
and plug in the inch numbers, click diameter for the following

Area: 12.127 (100)
and Area: 9.8607 (90)

Area difference is 2.2663 which is 22.5% of the small tube area. Still significant

 

[RSKtakR]

Sorry...I calc'd on the 85-95. Go here: http://www.1728.com/diam.htm
and plug in the inch numbers, click diameter for the following

Area: 12.127 (100)
and Area: 9.8607 (90)

Area difference is 2.2663 which is 22.5% of the small tube area. Still significant

well ONE of these end result's is wrong.. one of you guys comes up w/ 12.3% larger I.D. and the other comes up w/ 22.5%, and i come up w/ about 10% difference.. i would bet that im wrong, but 12% and 22% is a pretty large difference. however like it was stated earlier i guess its not going to matter much really if the Velocity slows down from the I.D growing. if thats the case then why did they make the rest of the pipe 100mm I.D. and only about 6" of it adjustable at the 90mm?

 

[ganador01]

Regarding the texture inside the tube, is the "bumpiness" normal for all CAI's? I would think the piece would be molded in a way to give a nice smooth texture on the inside to promote laminar air flow.

Ever seen a golf ball? There is a reason is has dimples. Look at f1 race cars, they aren't smooth in front. Dimples actually creates less drag on air when designed correctly. Whether or not this intake actually employs good physics in their design is yet to be seen.

 

[Liquid]

Ever seen a golf ball? There is a reason is has dimples. Look at f1 race cars, they aren't smooth in front. Dimples actually creates less drag on air when designed correctly. Whether or not this intake actually employs good physics in their design is yet to be seen.

I understand what you are trying to say, but the examples you gave are projectiles. When we are talking about fluid flow through a pipe, the pipe's interior texture is definitely a factor to consider as it creates friction losses. I have never seen a pipe or tube employ any sort of dimple to create less "drag".

 

[Omcar]

You guys can argue/discuss this forever but you will only settle it on the drag strip.

 

[ganador01]

I understand what you are trying to say, but the examples you gave are projectiles. When we are talking about fluid flow through a pipe, the pipe's interior texture is definitely a factor to consider as it creates friction losses. I have never seen a pipe or tube employ any sort of dimple to create less "drag".

An object moving through air uses nearly the same physics principals as air moving over an unmoving object. Therefore, golf ball air dynamics are directly applicable to objects that are sitting still. Just remember, when it comes to fluid/air dynamics, common sense is almost NEVER the best way to do something. Take a truck bed. Common sense says to put the lift gate down to maximize gas mileage. Real world fact is that keeping the tailgate up keeps a pressure zone inside the tailgate which actually helps air flow over the tailgate and improve gas mileage. Putting the gate down creates more downforce almost to the extent of a spoiler and decreases gas mileage. In conclusion, there may be more to the air raid design than you realize

 

[wbt]

Update on the velocity stack in vs. out....

Went to the track last Sat.

Out - 114MPH
In - 116MPH

Retuned between in and out to compensate for the area difference. This is not definitive as the runs were different and traction was Hell all night.

Next step will be dyno to compare.

 

[L.Sanchez]

Mmm.

Someone said pie.

 

[Shat9611]

An object moving through air uses nearly the same physics principals as air moving over an unmoving object. Therefore, golf ball air dynamics are directly applicable to objects that are sitting still. Just remember, when it comes to fluid/air dynamics, common sense is almost NEVER the best way to do something. Take a truck bed. Common sense says to put the lift gate down to maximize gas mileage. Real world fact is that keeping the tailgate up keeps a pressure zone inside the tailgate which actually helps air flow over the tailgate and improve gas mileage. Putting the gate down creates more downforce almost to the extent of a spoiler and decreases gas mileage. In conclusion, there may be more to the air raid design than you realize

actually mythbusters found out that if your replace your normal tailgate with one of those rope/strap material tailgates you get the best gas mileage