Anyone have dyno before and after FRPP Hot Rod Cams and tune?

Nathan H

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You shouldn't expect any big gains by just adding or replacing one component. Generally headers, cams, etc. compliment each other to create overall power gains, when they're properly matched. I did the research before buying my cams, and I knew the Hot Rod cams wouldn't make the power that a set of cams that require a valve spring change and disabling VCT would make. I'll admit, I was primarily after the "hot rod" sound, which is what the narrow lobe center angles of these cams give you. And it also didn't hurt that I got a killer deal on the cams, followers, and lash adjuster kit on ebay.
I also have the FRPP intake, and yes, there is a hole in the lower end of the torque curve big enough to drive a truck into, but that's one of the trade-offs for increased upper mid-range and top end power.
Bottom line is I feel that I got the results that my research into this parts combination suggested I would get, and I love the way the cars runs and sounds. As for cold air intakes, at the level of tuning my car is at, my CAI is probably a waste of money, and the only reason I have one is because it was parts of a package deal with the X4 tuner.
I see you have a Lito tune. Was he able to do anything with the lowend power at all?
 

Dino Dino Bambino

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Anyone ever try tuning the vct for more power?

Ford already had that pretty well nailed with the stock cams. At WOT the cams are kept fully advanced from idle to 3750rpm. Thereafter, they're progressively retarded to a maximum of 9 degrees (from an ICA of 109 degrees to 118 degrees) at 5750rpm and remain there until 6500rpm. As a result, the engine puts out 8-10hp more at the top end than it would if the cams were locked in at full advance.
Furthermore, no aftermarket cams outperforms the OEM cams from idle to 4400rpm.
 
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Nathan H

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Ford already had that pretty well nailed with the stock cams. At WOT the cams are kept fully advanced from idle to 3750rpm. Thereafter, they're progressively retarded to a maximum of 9 degrees (from an ICA of 109 degrees to 118 degrees) at 5750rpm and remain there until 6500rpm. As a result, the engine puts out 8-10hp more at the top end than it would if the cams were locked in at full advance.
Furthermore, no aftermarket cams outperforms the OEM cams from idle to 4400rpm.
I was reading someones post here about having some good success with the Lunati cams that had mid-gains and high gains. Anyone else run those?
 
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I recently installed a centri, 4.10's and HR cams and love the combination. The Brenspeed tune leaves a lot to be desired so I'm in contact with Lito for a better tune. Just a heads-up that you will also need to install a wideband O2 and preferably a boost gauge for datalogging. Not a big deal to do but not inexpensive either.
Lito, doesn't do a can tune does he? I have a chrome book but geez how do I keep the internet if I drive away from the house.
 
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IMO cam swaps on a N/A 4.6 just aren't worth it when you consider the $800+ cost of the cams themselves plus the additional cost of the timing wedge tool, phaser bolts (possibly new phasers as well), labor if you're paying to have them installed professionally, and a new tune. The total cost could be as much as $2000. That's 30% of the way towards a supercharger kit.
Then you have the loss of torque below 3500rpm where the engine spends most of its life. The obvious solution to that is a 3.73 (if you have 3.31) or 4.10 (if you have 3.55) rear axle gear swap. That 13-15% extra torque multiplication at the rear wheels compensates for the sub 3500rpm torque loss at the crank, and adds to the fun factor above 5000rpm where the cams actually make more power, but it comes at a cost of ~$275 in parts plus 4-6 hours labor. By now you're almost $3000 in (unless you DIY) and all for 22rwhp with some extra performance in a narrow 5000-6500rpm window?
The best bang for the buck is to keep the stock rear axle gears and install a PD supercharger kit. For ~$6500 you can gain an easy 150+rwhp and outrun stock Coyote Stangs.
But cams sound so cool at the Red Light to me it's worth that now that I have other power adders.
 

AHaze

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I got the Vortech V3-Si, non-intercooled. The kit was pretty good and the installation fairly painless. The charge cooler is on my wish list for a later upgrade.
I got the Vortech HO kit that came with the water/air charge cooler and would recommend you datalog your IATs before deciding to add more weight to the nose of your car and lighten your wallet. My highest IATs are sitting in traffic, not at WOT. Turns out a Vortech Si just doesn't make much heat at 8-9 psi.
 

Nathan H

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I got the Vortech HO kit that came with the water/air charge cooler and would recommend you datalog your IATs before deciding to add more weight to the nose of your car and lighten your wallet. My highest IATs are sitting in traffic, not at WOT. Turns out a Vortech Si just doesn't make much heat at 8-9 psi.
I think I read that the V3 is the same as the NOVI 2200 from Paxton and the V2 is the same as the NOVI 1200. Is that correct? AHaze, what state do you live in, and what's your HP level with your V2? I live in Michigan so most of the year it isn't too hot.

I'm just curious about your experience driving a non-intercooled one is. From reading some sites, it makes it sound like you can do WOT just a couple of times before you have to cool it down.
 

AHaze

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I think I read that the V3 is the same as the NOVI 2200 from Paxton and the V2 is the same as the NOVI 1200. Is that correct? AHaze, what state do you live in, and what's your HP level with your V2? I live in Michigan so most of the year it isn't too hot.

I'm just curious about your experience driving a non-intercooled one is. From reading some sites, it makes it sound like you can do WOT just a couple of times before you have to cool it down.

V2 just denotes an externally lubricated gearcase vs the self contained V3 (I have oil supply and drain lines to the engine like a turbo). The Si trim is the same compressor section as as the Paxton Novi 1200 either way.
The Novi 2200 is a significantly larger compressor.
I'm in Alberta so have fairly similar summer weather to you. Car has never been dynoed but traps at 117 MPH in the 1/4 so should be somewhere around the 450 RWHP mark.
I've never driven a car with the non intercooled version of the kit. This is purely an educated guess from my experience with my car and having IAT displayed on a scan gauge. Like I said, do some datalogging of your IATs and decide from there. I'm sure your WOT IATs will be higher than mine, I just don't think they'll get hot enough to justify the complexity, weight and cost of an aftercooler. I've left mine on because it's already installed and paid for. If I had started with a non-intercooled kit, I would look at using meth injection for IAT control under boost if the logs showed it to be necessary. I also want to convert to a blow-thru MAF so I can dump the recirculation valve to atmosphere to get rid of the heat build up in traffic.

Edit:
I just remembered that datalogging EGT is useless unless you relocate the sensor downstream of the blower. It's in the MAF meter so ends up measuring the air going into the blower as the kit is set up from Vortech. I put a Lightning IAT sensor in my intake manifold.
 
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Midlife Crises

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Looking at the choice between two tuners I have two dyno charts that were run within an hour of each other. No changes were made to the vehicle of any kind. Only the tunes were changed. The first chart is the final Brenspeed tune. It ran very well with no bad habits but burned my eyes at idle. Brenspeed was done with me at this point. The second chart is a Lito tune. It runs stronger and does not smell as bad. Lito was also willing to make adjustments after this chart was made and has responded to every inquiry I have sent him.
Look at the torque from 3000 to 5000 and the difference in peak HP.

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RED09GT

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The Brenspeed tune looks like it is for stock rods and pistons.

At 3500rpm, what is that Brenspeed tune running for timing? Maybe 11-12 degrees?
 

Dino Dino Bambino

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The Brenspeed tune looks like it is for stock rods and pistons.

At 3500rpm, what is that Brenspeed tune running for timing? Maybe 11-12 degrees?

I wondered about that but there was no reason for them to keep the engine under 450rwtq when it's fully built with a forged bottom end and can take a lot more.
The 12:1 AFR across the board was right where it needed to be. I guess Brenspeed was just being conservative with the timing to keep the engine safe in case the IATs become too high in the summer months. One way or another, Lito's performed something of a miracle and fattened up the torque curve.
 

BAD3VLV

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Thanks! I appreciate the insight. For your S/C car, what are you running? I've been thinking about possibly doing that as well. I know the centrifugal superchargers are popular, but I do like the idea of immediate torque of a PD blower. I think if I went with a PD blower, I'd change gears since I think 4.10s are too low for that. I've heard they're good for a centrifugal.
I'm running the comp 127550's with the phasers locked out with a Roush phase 2 r2300 blower with supporting mods tuned by Lund. I Drive the car an hour to work atleast 3 times a week and it drives like a stock car, still getting over 21mpg on the freeway. Its an absolute beast when you hit the skinny pedal though, picking the right tuner makes all the difference in the world.
 

Rick Simons

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I see you have a Lito tune. Was he able to do anything with the lowend power at all?
Yes, he did a very respectable job with it. There's still going to be some loss at the lower end, given the relatively aggressive LSA of the cams and fact that the CMCV's are no longer on it. Overall I'm totally pleased with how it performs.
 
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