BMR Watts Link - Teaser

[nelsonbullitt]

Be a little careful here. You need to be able to separate the effects of lowering from the effects of the higher spring rates (hopefully higher enough) involved.

Lowering might become absolutely necessary with tires that are grippy enough to pull ~1.5 lateral g's in a flat corner just from the cornering grip, but you probably aren't going to get there on true street tires. Or go there in a street setting even if you could.

You might like lowering spring rates at roughly stock ride height better than any springs you've yet tried at whatever lowered ride height they gave you . . . assuming that the appearance thing doesn't bother you so you can focus only on the performance and feel.


Norm

If spring rates, etc are fairly equal the lowered car must take the corners better because there is less leverage of the body on the axle, etc.

 

[nelsonbullitt]

Be careful here too. With good springs and dampers and other components, the PHB car can put it on a stock ride height Watt's car, and have a better ride than stock. Not all aftermarket dampers will kill your suspension travel.

I never mentioned the dampers. But, stopping up/down movement with either the dampers or springs will still not fix the PB problem.

BTW, this is my opinion. I'm not an autocrosser, just drag race from time to time and take every sharp corner on blacktop as fast as the tires hold me.

I keep track of the speed I can take these specific curves, temperature, which tires I have, etc.

I'm an amateur, that's what makes me dangerous!

I still say, if you have not tried the watts, either the fays or bmr or whomever you are really missing a tremendous mod.

The BMR is a really, really well thought out part, very adjustable, and quiet.

While waiting for the BMR part to arrive, I sold my Fays on EBAY, put the adjustable PB back on and I could not believe how disconnected the car felt. And, that was with the Ps, Tokicos, stiffer bars, 20 inch summer uhps, etc.

 

[Norm Peterson]

If spring rates, etc are fairly equal the lowered car must take the corners better because there is less leverage of the body on the axle, etc.

It's not that simple, and with spring and bar rates held constant you'll end up with more roll when lowered rather than less. Strut suspension roll center heights drop at least twice as much as you lower that end of the car, which increases the roll moment (and the roll and the elastic load transfer along with it). The geometric load transfer term is what becomes smaller, and from the changes in these two load transfer terms the car just might be a little slower to take a set.

You also lose a little by putting the suspension at a position where the camber gain is slower. This isn't a huge effect, but it is working against you here.


Norm

 

[cbass]

Is this a shep argument? Seems like a shep argument.

 

[i am ryan]

Is this a shep argument? Seems like a shep argument.

Nah, it's a discussion. No one's said "ok lol," and followed it with "im an engineer bro."

 

[nelsonbullitt]

Nah, it's a discussion. No one's said "ok lol," and followed it with "im an engineer bro."

 

[Dig-It]

To the folks at BMR: Thank you

Thank you for building a quality product. The fit, finish and construction of the Watt's link is top notch. Installation was very straight forward and fairly easy. I was even surprised with how quick I was able to set the geometry and center the axle under the car.

If I could offer some suggestions though:

Please apply a tad bit more QA to the fasteners included with the kit. I was missing a few bolts (rectified with a quick phone call to customer service), while other bolts were the wrong size (1 1/2" instead of 1", and yes it does make difference in a few tight spaces).

If a picture is worth a thousand words, then color pictures must be worth five-hundred to a thousand more. Please consider using color pictures in the instructions.

Well done and thanks again!

 

[Gabe]

I got 2 of these and haven't even opened the boxes yet

Which hole are you guys using for the center piece?
There's 5-6 holes vertically, right?

 

[00blkvert]

I got 2 of these and haven't even opened the boxes yet

Which hole are you guys using for the center piece?
There's 5-6 holes vertically, right?

I have my center piece in the 4th hole up from the bottom with no rear sway bar right now.

 

[Dig-It]

There are six holes.

I set mine on the lowest. This is my HPDE track car and I wanted the lowest roll center and least affect on the dynamics of my suspension set up.

 

[Mark Aubele]

I have mine in the second from bottom.

 

[BMR Tech 2]

To the folks at BMR: Thank you

Thank you for building a quality product. The fit, finish and construction the Watt's link is top notch. Installation was very straight forward and fairly easy. I was even surprised with quick I was able to set the geometry and center the axle under the car.

If I could offer some suggestions though:

Please apply a tad bit more QA to the fasteners included with the kit. I was missing a few bolts (rectified with a quick phone call to customer service), while other bolts were the wrong size (1 1/2" instead of 1", and yes it does make difference in a few tight spaces).

If a picture is worth a thousand words, then color pictures must be worth five-hundred to a thousand more. Please consider using color pictures in the instructions.

Well done and thanks again!

I'm glad to hear that you're happy with your kit! I'm also sorry that you had issues with your hardware. Unfortunately it's a pretty complicated kit with a lot of hardware, so there are bound to be some mix-ups here and there. I know first hand how those bolts make a big difference, I had the same issue with my car and implemented a hardware change right after I installed my WL005 kit.

I got 2 of these and haven't even opened the boxes yet

Which hole are you guys using for the center piece?
There's 5-6 holes vertically, right?

It's a matter of personal preference. I have mine set on the second hole from the bottom. It basically boils down to this: If you want more grip but less response in the rear from steering input, go lower. If you want more responsive steering input but don't mind less grip, set it higher. The higher settings are good for folks with no rear sway bar, the lower settings are good for folks with factory or aftermarket bars.

That is a very generalized way of thinking about RC, and YMMV between track temps, tires, sway bar choices, and other suspension components you may have.

 

[Pentalab]

Until somebody makes OE-height springs at least in typical "lowering spring" rates - or better yet in rates a little closer to what the available shocks and struts can still reasonably well control - this is going to be an apples to oranges comparison with a very real risk of erroneous conclusions. Or at least conclusions that get poorly stated to the point of being misleading.


Norm

I have yet to see or find any OEM-height springs..that are stiffer than oem. They don't exist....yet. Too bad.

 

[Norm Peterson]

There is a spring height adjuster for stock-location rear springs, but that still leaves you having to work out a way of height-adjusting the front springs. Preferably by improving bump travel inside the shock at the same time. Hopefully without involving too many iterations/trials-and-errors.


Norm

 

[00blkvert]

I have yet to see or find any OEM-height springs..that are stiffer than oem. They don't exist....yet. Too bad.

Check out ground control suspension. They make a coilover conversion that you can put on adjust on your struts then you'll have ride height and any spring rate you want.

 

[nelsonbullitt]

I have my center piece in the 4th hole up from the bottom with no rear sway bar right now.

I am curious, how is that working out? What is handling and ride like?

It "seems" like a rear anti-sway bar shouldn't be needed as the watts does both the locating of the axle and the roll.

I would also like to hear the BMR suspension person comment on this as well.

 

[Mach2burnout]

I am curious, how is that working out? What is handling and ride like?



It "seems" like a rear anti-sway bar shouldn't be needed as the watts does both the locating of the axle and the roll.



I would also like to hear the BMR suspension person comment on this as well.

He did. See post 672.


Sent from iPhone

 

[00blkvert]

I am curious, how is that working out? What is handling and ride like?

It "seems" like a rear anti-sway bar shouldn't be needed as the watts does both the locating of the axle and the roll.

I would also like to hear the BMR suspension person comment on this as well.

It's fine. I don't compete in any events just spirited driving so i don't ever push the car enough to really see big issues. It hands and rides great. The ride ialone is better with just the watts over a PHB and the steeda car i had on it.

 

[nelsonbullitt]

Sorry guys, I didn't catch the comment at the end of Dylan's post.

I have mine set in one of the lower holes with a bit stiffer a/s bar. It is fine. But.... might have to take the bar off to see the difference.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Your relo bracket settings fall under his "other suspension components" category here . . . via axle roll steer.


Norm