BMR Watts Link - Teaser

[BMR Tech]

The original price point of $500 range was specifically in reference to the diff mount design. Which, may very well be in that range.

This chassis mount kit should be not be much more than others on the market. I think, if it can be priced below any other watts on the market....it would be crazy to not be happy about that. RD adjustment for days, double shear, appealing. It's a nice part. IMO, this chassis kit should be in the $750 range, when looking at what is available. I'm not saying that's what the price will be, but it's worth that amount.

I'm doing everything I can to ensure these kits will be the best bang for the buck pieces available.

The diff mount version will be released at a later date...but I can tell you, that will be the cheaper of the two. It's easier, and costs less to make (how we are going to make it)

 

[i am ryan]

Even if it's the same price as the competition, I have no doubt that it will be worth more than the competitor's part. BMR's work speaks for itself. I'll be genuinely shocked if it's not the prettiest AND most well engineered option when it hits the market.

 

[gray1622]

So whats difference in performance between the two? Classis vs Diff?

 

[zeroescape]

So whats difference in performance between the two? Classis vs Diff?

its a never ending cycle!

I believe the very answer is posted in this thread.

 

[frank s]

will it fit the convertible?? with the bracing on the bottom??

Did I miss the answer to this/these?

 

[csamsh]

its a never ending cycle!

I believe the very answer is posted in this thread.

Probably. Short version is that some people prefer diff mount, and some prefer chassis.

 

[gray1622]

Ehhh... there are advantages and disadvantages to both methods. The biggest difference between the two is how body roll is produced. On a chassis mounted unit the RC and CG are fixed relative to each other. This means that at a given lateral load the body roll should be consistent.

With a diff mounted unit the RC is fixed height relative to the ground but not to the CG. This means that the RC and CG are constantly getting closer and further apart from each other. The end result is a progressive amount of body roll and one that changes with ride height fluctuations. If you have the same static RC as a chassis mount unit, at the same lateral load with everything else about the vehicles the same, the chassis mount should produce slightly less body roll as the arm length between the CG and RC remains constant whereas it will change in length with the diff mounted unit.

I think at the end of the day, Norm was of the opinion that there might be a slight edge to a chassis mounted unit from a tuning standpoint. Either is far superior to a PHB.

Found it. Been awhile since I read this

 

[TGR96]

^^^ I get so confused whenever I try to learn about suspensions! I swear, the more I read, the less I feel.Like I know! :-(

Somebody just tell me which one I should buy!!!!

 

[Doug M]

I know how you feel chip!
But when you ask questions; folks side step everything, instead of just recommended something.
They just tell you what you mostly already know.

 

[csamsh]

I know how you feel chip!
But when you ask questions; folks side step everything, instead of just recommended something.
They just tell you what you mostly already know.

Here in this subforum, all the "good stuff" is kind of already known, and it just comes down to budget and goals, and most technical discussion about the merits of certain setups vs others have already been run about a mile into the ground. The s197 is 10 years old. We know how to set one up by now.

You'll luckily find few "I have part X and love it" anecdotal bullshit posts. The recommendations to take seriously are the ones made that are backed by testing and data, and hopefully lap times and results.

That being said...if you make a post that says "I can spend $6000, want to run 5-10 HPDE events a year, my brakes are good to go, and I'm looking to upgrade wheels, tires, dampers, springs, and I want a good racing seat" you'll get some good recommendations, mostly backed by experience, and probably the many failed setups that were tried before whatever the current setup may be.

 

[mavisky]

Quote:
Originally Posted by strictly180
will it fit the convertible?? with the bracing on the bottom??

Did I miss the answer to this/these?

No, still waiting on an answer for the last few months. I've asked on multiple forums with no answer yet.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Found it. Been awhile since I read this

There are also slight differences in the rates of axle roll steer between the diff-mount and chassis-mount Watts links. Probably a nuance-level kind of thing.

As you increase the spring rates, the differences between chassis and diff mounted Watts links tend to shrink.

^^^ I get so confused whenever I try to learn about suspensions! I swear, the more I read, the less I feel.Like I know! :-(

Somebody just tell me which one I should buy!!!!

I know how you feel chip!
But when you ask questions; folks side step everything, instead of just recommended something.
They just tell you what you mostly already know.

People just telling other people what to buy (or not buy) is what I expect to read in threads concerned with exhaust mods and maybe axle gear swaps. Lots of pure opinion, virtually zero hard tech or even suggestions about what to consider. For suspensions, whatever you choose is more likely to end up satisfactory if you can line up the various aspects of the beast (like geo-RC height, its vertical migration, and axle steer for the topic of this thread) with what you feel might be more important to you. In street driving, it's unlikely to matter, but it's not always clear how familiar with suspension matters the questioner is, or whether the driving envisioned is ever going to be much harder than a brisk run down an Interstate onramp.

But what do I know? I'm still running the OE PHB - albeit with DIY-stiffened bushings - to within 2 or 3 seconds of what a local 1LE Camaro has done at NJMP's Thunderbolt course (keep in mind that I've only got a stockish 4.6L). The car has favorably impressed instructors both before I was signed off to run solo and afterward on offering right-seat ride-alongs. Most recently this past weekend involving a guy whose normal ride says Carrera on both sides.

So I suppose I could tell you that you don't have to do any more to your car's rear suspension than what I've done to mine to date, but that still won't directly answer questions like "which Watts link should I buy tomorrow" . . . . although it's still a more ethical suggestion than recommending a kit that might not even be on my own "short list". No, I'm not going to say which kits might be on that list, or which ones might not be.


Norm

 

[TGR96]

I gotcha, Norm. I was joking around in my post. I respect all the hardcore corner carvers knowledge in here, but sometimes whne I start reading in this section of the forum, about three sentences in, all I see is blah blah blah! LOL

I have only been autocrossing sporadically for a few years, and just started doing HPDEs last year, so this year, I am actually going to spend money on seat time at HPDEs and maybe even a driver instruction school rather than spending it on car mods.

I must admit, I do like the bling, thoughh. Haha

And that's impressive about your car's track time vs the 1LE. Too bad you are so far away, I'd sign up to go to an event with you and maybe you could teach me a thing or two!

 

[BMR Tech]

No, still waiting on an answer for the last few months. I've asked on multiple forums with no answer yet.

Unfortunately, I am not going to answer the question of what is better, and what are the pros and cons - simply because we are going to make both, and this is such a touchy subject. They are both good, and I will end up telling people to choose the one that fit's their need in terms of clearance, packaging, and price point.

I will say, I truly do not believe that someone using a chassis mount kit, would decrease lap times by going to a diff mount - and vice versa.

We have a ton of data in regards to our Watts kits at BMR. I've got plots, and diagrams from various software programs we use...and spreadsheets with data that we compile, plotting the old fashion way. Rest assured, when both the diff and chassis version are available through us, picking your poison based on looks and price point is a valid suggestion.

No, I'm not going to say which kits might be on that list, or which ones might not be.


Norm

Norm, after reading your many posts on many forums throughout the years...I have come to realize that we think very similarly.

I am fairly certain I know the type of Watts Link you will choose (not brand, but style) when you decide to take that path.

 

[Mr. Q]

Kelly, Mavisky (and Frank s) was asking if the watts link will fit the convertible. Fyi.

 

[BMR Tech]

AH!!! I quote the incorrect person, doh!

I will be able to verify fitment, or non fitment on the Verts soon.

As soon as I confirm, I will post. Sorry for the delay mavisky!

 

[Whiskey11]

And in other news: Just got off the phone with Kelly at BMR. He finally caved in to my pressuring him (only took a year and change!) for one of their watts linkages and he convinced the boss to sell me one of their pre-production units! Should be here in a couple of weeks and a full review with tech to compare to the Fays2 on my car should follow shortly thereafter.

 

[BMR Tech]

And in other news: Kelly @ BMR has a few more grey hairs, making that deal pan out.

lol.....

Hope you like what you see Whiskey. Thanks for the interest in our components sir.

 

[irishpwr46]

i have a fays 2 ill be willing to trade for the bmr when theyre finally around

 

[Whiskey11]

And in other news: Kelly @ BMR has a few more grey hairs, making that deal pan out.

lol.....

Hope you like what you see Whiskey. Thanks for the interest in our components sir.

Hey, I work a very stressful job and need to spread the love with the stress so I'm glad you and the boss finally caved in! When I was home over Christmas my mom found a gray hair and I'm only 26... not a good sign!