Cams and tuning ? 2011+

[wbt]

Yes, whoever holds the most records is the only good tuner!!

It boils down to credentials. Who has tuned the quickest/fastest 5.0's on the planet? We are talking custom builds, exactly what the OP is looking into. Who do you think is going to have the expertise in that area out of the tuners mentioned in this thread? The answer is very simple and clear.

 

[CPRsm]

Sure he can do a fine job. I don't think he's the only good tuner though. Including ones not mentioned in this thread.

 

[ochoblanco]

Well Bama (Doug back in the day) tuned my 07 pre boost and was great. HPP Racing tuned it after boost and Manny was incredible. I've personally seen great things from Shaun at AED on a fellow Boss owners car. Heard great things about Lund too.

I've also read bad things about all of those above too. Guess it all depends upon who you talk to and their experience with the certain tuner.

 

[stang8psi]

I've heard that you can't go 13mm on a stock Coyote head.

You can, just have to clearance the head for them. There is a thread somewhere on here for it.

Any more info on this? If that is the case I am starting to lean towards the jpc custom 're grinds

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86286&highlight=boss+exhaust+cams&page=5

He has pics in this thread.

 

[barbaro]

I really am mystified as to the people who are saying that cams are unproven and they are difficult to tune. I put comp stage two cams on my car and we did not have any problems tuning it at all really. And as to their contribution to your horsepower, I say they are worth 30-40 hp. http://www.stangtv.com/features/car...eo-naturally-aspirated-2011-5-0-makes-522rwhp Brian Shapiro at B&D Racing in Van Nuys California tuned it to 522 on 91 octane. He felt it was easier to tune than a supercharged 5.0. The cams more than any other single thing short of a supercharger will change the character of your engine. My idle is set high around 1000 rpms and it doesn't like being below 2000 rpm much, which is okay with me because I don't drive under 2000 rpm much. If in traffic you will use a little more clutch. So far I have 10,000 miles on the cams and the clutch and both are holding up very well.

 

[BruceH]

IMO tuning vct cams for max power is straight forward. Twin vct would require more plotting but it wouldn't be rocket surgery. You have to be able to figure out valve timing events and adjust for the difference in the cams but once that's done just start datalogging airflow and go from there. You also have to know some things about internal combustion theory but it's not a state secret. The info is readily available in books. And no, I'm not saying I have it all figured out but I have an idea of what the motor is doing and why.

Driveability is where the skill is needed. Tuning the hunting idle, hanging rpms, surging rpms, and stalling out is where it gets tricky. This is one of the best reasons to have prp, so you can take the time to get that driveability as good as it can be.

 

[barbaro]

there are pleanty of cars that have the comp stage 3's and are making close to or over 500 rwhp N/A. The boss cams don't need to be tuned really, it would be no different than saying shaun I have a boss and need a tune!!
I do know JPC has custom cams for $890.00 and they are the ones they used to achieve the 507 rwhp N/A car, but they also want $$$ to tune it!
and for the money boss cams cost I would rather do the comp stage 3's..

First, there are not a lot of 2011+ mustang over 500 rwhp naturally aspirated. I know of only two. Mine and JPC. And mine has the Comp stage 2 cams. JPC has their own grind from Rich Groh racing I believe. I would not recommend the Stage Three for street use because they will be difficult to tune for low end street performance. When going with Comp Stage Two cams you will get great mid to high range performance but you will lose most of your variable cam timing and the engine is not as flexible as stock. With Stage three forget about it. It will be difficult to drive through a mall parking lot without burning out your clutch.

 

[08StangGT_CS]

I have the stage 3 with boss intake and don't have too much trouble at the lower rpms (I COULD drive around a parking lot at fairly low RPM although it is a bit sluggish. Where my car struggles is at around 2800-3000 rpm. I can be cruising at that rpm and my car bucks and misfires. It sucks. I don't know whether I will try a different tuner or just remove them and go back to stock cams.

PS for those that care about numbers I made 495 HP the first time and 486 with a retune and boss manifold added.

 

[CPRsm]

2800-3000 should be high enough in the rom band not to have problems with the cam size.

I really am mystified as to the people who are saying that cams are unproven and they are difficult to tune.

It's not that they are a shit ton more difficult. It is more time though.But it's not just a matter of tuning the Optimum Performance tables and calling it a day. Speed desnity tanles need to figured out along with torque tables. Then it becomes if the customer wants to pay for it and if the juice will be worth the squeeze.

 

[kdanner]

I know of only two. Mine and JPC. And mine has the Comp stage 2 cams.

Your problem is that for what seems like a year now, you've repeated this dyno number over and over. No one cares about a dyno number. Get some track results, then you'll have numbers that actually matter.

 

[CPRsm]

Not everyone races the 1/4. I have a few customers over 1000rwhp that just don't like it. It one of my guys over a year for me to get him to make a pass for me to see the mph lol. He does a bunch of roll races at events like the Texas Invitational. He lives his life longer than a 1/4 mile at a time. For those 10 seconds or more, he's free. hahahahaha.

 

[kdanner]

That's a convenient excuse for some. No one races dynos, that's simply a tool that gives out a mostly useless and easily manipulated set of numbers. With these cars most everyone drag races them, or some of us run a standing mile as well where we still get a speed slip. No one came up and asked me "hey how quick can you lap Laguna Seca", not once, ever. That's the reality, without timeslips you simply have no generally accepted measurement of the performance of said vehicle.

 

[ochoblanco]

That's a convenient excuse for some. No one races dynos, that's simply a tool that gives out a mostly useless and easily manipulated set of numbers. With these cars most everyone drag races them, or some of us run a standing mile as well where we still get a speed slip. No one came up and asked me "hey how quick can you lap Laguna Seca", not once, ever. That's the reality, without timeslips you simply have no generally accepted measurement of the performance of said vehicle.

Disagree. There are plenty of people that are into AutoX/road racing where 1/4 mile times aren't the "generally accepted measurement tool".

 

[konablue11gt]

Then theres us mexico guys.......lol

 

[kdanner]

Disagree. There are plenty of people that are into AutoX/road racing where 1/4 mile times aren't the "generally accepted measurement tool".

OK, there we go, someone in central TX that wants to bring up road racing. We'll forget auto-X since you can't compare a constantly changing course from one event to the next. So, how many times has some random person asked you how quick you can lap TWS? Then how many times were you asked about a 1/4 mile? And if you even have a lap time for TWS, can a person in say FL put that into context and make a valid comparison with a Daytona lap time? Of course not, but he can with a 1/4 mile. It really is that simple, like it or not.

 

[Rob72]

Any more info on this? If that is the case I am starting to lean towards the jpc custom 're grinds

One of the articles on the Coyote when it first came out said that .500 was the max lift. I have heard from someone else besides Jewc saying that may not be the case. Personally I'd like to use a cam that doesn't restrict the vct.

 

[ochoblanco]

OK, there we go, someone in central TX that wants to bring up road racing. We'll forget auto-X since you can't compare a constantly changing course from one event to the next. So, how many times has some random person asked you how quick you can lap TWS? Then how many times were you asked about a 1/4 mile? And if you even have a lap time for TWS, can a person in say FL put that into context and make a valid comparison with a Daytona lap time? Of course not, but he can with a 1/4 mile. It really is that simple, like it or not.

Maybe for you this is the case but for the people that enjoy racing their cars on all different types of tracks, 1/4 mile times mean little to them... Prevalent in the Boss community for sure. I agree that 1/4 mile times are the measurement to a much broader group...but not all.

 

[CPRsm]

"Hi, I'm Ricky Bobby. And if you don't race the 1/4, fuck you." LOL

 

[kdanner]

Look it's not "fuck you if you don't race the 1/4 mile", it's simply the defacto standard of measurement. Without it, comparisons generally can't be made, and you're left with only speculation.