DiMora
More Is Better
I did a lot of searching and there are not a lot of threads on methanol injection. I found one (Post #669) that was VERY helpful here because it shows how LostSoul installed his pump (I had no room on pass side since my Meziere intercooler pump is there): http://s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4610&highlight=snow&page=35
Anyway, on to it: I just added a Snow Performance Stage 3 setup. They make two flavors of Stage 3 kit: Regular Stage 3 and MPG-Max.
Mine is a regular but I am converting it to an MPG-Max setup. More on that later.
The installation:
The kit (factory promo shot):
New in box - bought from YellowRoush who bought from ModifyMyStang.com:
First I removed the front of the car:
I then installed the bung for the meth line and also the included low fluid level switch which will illuminate a warning LED:
I marked the pump-mount location, pre-drilled the holes (destroyed 3-4 drill bits - what a PITA) and started the self-tapping screws before removing them to add the pump:
Next I mounted the pump:
I then re-installed the windshield washer reservoir and ran allt he lines, loomed the wires, and installed the controller:
I installed a single 375ml nozzle (more on Nozzle selection later):
Controller:
Control panel (Wil be upgrading to an SOS billet panel; this is temporary. Top right = QTP cutouts. Top left button = Reverse lockout over-ride for T56. LED = Meth low light. Bottom left = Line Lock Master Bottom Right = Snow Meth Master:
Here is where I always run my electrical wires:
Other install notes:
Tuning the regular Stage 3 setup (Not MPG MAX kit): You can use one or two nozzles (they make a Y-splitter) and you can set it up (fully progressive) to trigger off of your choice of:
You can also set up the ratio between Boost vs. Injector PW.
Tuning example using my car:
Cruise normal injector PW: 7-10%.
Max PW at WOT: 74%
Max boost: 10 PSI
Settings:
Meth injection start Boost: 4 PSI
Meth Peak Boost: 10 PSI
Meth start PW %: (Rule of thumb: Add 4-5% to cruise %): 14%
Meth Peak PW%: (Rule of Thumb: Set 5% BELOW peak PW% at WOT): 69%
Ratio of PW to Boost: 65%PW/35%Boost (For a Roots or T/S that hits instantly, BIAS toward PW, for a slow spooling boost ramp (Centri or Turbos, bias towards Boost).
With the MPG max kit, you use two Nozzles and a fluid control solenoid. You tune as above but only using the SMALL nozzle, then you pick a BOOST point where you want the secondary (big) nozzle to kick in. I will be adding that soon. They claim you can pick up 2-3 MPG...we shall see. If not I'll remove the MPG max feature and just stick with what I have.
Nozzle selection:
There are many, many manufacturers of nozzles. Each manufacturer claims theirs are superior and the others are not as good. I looked at Snow, AEM, Devil's Own, AIS, etc.
Also - Each manufacturer "rates" the nozzles differently. Snow rates theirs at 60 PSI. Others rate theirs at 100 PSI. The pumps everyone uses now run at 250 PSI. So...you have to take the nozzle rating and convert it or Google for test data on the internets. It is a pain.
In short, I used the Snow 375 ml/minute nozzle because it actually flows around 550 ml/min at 220 PSI.
When I switch to dual nozzles and add the MPG max setup, I'll probably use a 175 and a 375. The 175 will flow 340 ml/min at 220 PSI. The system will "ramp up" progressively on the 175 and then when I hit big boost I'll hit both teh 175 and 375 simultaneously. I may have to play with sizing depending on the results so I don;t quench (too much meth and too much of a richening in A/F ratio).
They say target a 1/2 point drop in A/F ratio then add timing / boost as needed to make big power.
I WILL NOT be adding timing or boost until I get a forged engine and install the Snow Fail-Safe system with a boost bypass valve.
I am using the system to maintain my performance in the Atlanta hot weather. That means that my overall dyno power will likely DECREASE by maybe 5-15 RWHP wince I will be "excessively rich" but I will MAINTAIN consistent power even when it is hot out.
Without the meth, my car is a monster when you first start it and it is cool (engine warmed up but intercooler fluid / engine not yet fully heat -soaked). When I get into traffic / extended freeway cruising and then come to a stop and go again, I see IAT's in the low 130's. When moving again, I'll slowly drop to a 118 or so IAT (I'm talking ambient air temps of 80-95 degrees F in Atlanta). You can feel the car is a dog. With the meth, it drops my IAT's back down to 112-118 almost instantly and the car feels on the butt-dyno like it has so much more giddy-up but it will take testing to find out if that is placebo effect - when I have more time, I'll use my iPhone dyno app and do some 30-80 pulls and see if I actually shave any time while spraying the meth.
That's pretty much it. Here is some info I collated after searching for a few days. Thanks to whoever posted it originally:
Here is the formula to calculate flow rate vs pressure.
1. Divide new pressure by 100 psi (standard nozzle pressure)
Example: 140 divided 100 = 1.4
2. Obtain square root with calculator
Example 1.4 sq-root = 1.1832159
3. Multiply result by nozzle size at 100 psi
Example: 1.1832159 x 1.00 = 1.18 GPH
This is your new flow rate @ 140 psi of pressure.
hope this helps you.
Devil’s own Nozzle flow rates:
DO1 @ 200PSI 1.41GPH
D02 @ 200PSI 2.83GPH
DO3 @ 200PSI 4.24GPH
DO4 @ 200PSI 5.66GPH
D05 @ 200PSI 7.07GPH
DO7 @ 200PSI 9.90GPH
DO10 @ 200PSI 14.14GPH
Great info here that I used:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6118472-Nozzle-flow-test-results&p=85495091
Excerpts from the above...Note the Snow Performance Nozzle Flow Rates at 220PSI at 13.8 volts and how much they differ from the 60 PSI flow rates - expressed in ml/minute. I converted to add the GP/H column, which is what some manufacturers use:
Nozzle / ml/min / GPH
60 / 90 / 1.42
100/ 186 / 2.95
175/ 340/ 5.39
225 / 425 / 6.74
375/ 550/ 8.72
625 / 1375/ 21.80
Anyway, on to it: I just added a Snow Performance Stage 3 setup. They make two flavors of Stage 3 kit: Regular Stage 3 and MPG-Max.
Mine is a regular but I am converting it to an MPG-Max setup. More on that later.
The installation:
The kit (factory promo shot):
New in box - bought from YellowRoush who bought from ModifyMyStang.com:
First I removed the front of the car:
I then installed the bung for the meth line and also the included low fluid level switch which will illuminate a warning LED:
I marked the pump-mount location, pre-drilled the holes (destroyed 3-4 drill bits - what a PITA) and started the self-tapping screws before removing them to add the pump:
Next I mounted the pump:
I then re-installed the windshield washer reservoir and ran allt he lines, loomed the wires, and installed the controller:
I installed a single 375ml nozzle (more on Nozzle selection later):
Controller:
Control panel (Wil be upgrading to an SOS billet panel; this is temporary. Top right = QTP cutouts. Top left button = Reverse lockout over-ride for T56. LED = Meth low light. Bottom left = Line Lock Master Bottom Right = Snow Meth Master:
Here is where I always run my electrical wires:
Other install notes:
- I added a dedicated relay straight from the master underhood fuse box.
- I soldered and heat-shrunk and loomed every wire. Wire taps will fail!
- I used the supplied Goop E6000 sealant on the nozzle threads and washer fluid bung to prevent leaks
- I used a (not included) plastic grommet that Snow sells in my CF intake tube with some E6000 Goop to seal it up
Tuning the regular Stage 3 setup (Not MPG MAX kit): You can use one or two nozzles (they make a Y-splitter) and you can set it up (fully progressive) to trigger off of your choice of:
- Boost
- Injector Duty (Pulse-Width)
- or BOTH
You can also set up the ratio between Boost vs. Injector PW.
Tuning example using my car:
Cruise normal injector PW: 7-10%.
Max PW at WOT: 74%
Max boost: 10 PSI
Settings:
Meth injection start Boost: 4 PSI
Meth Peak Boost: 10 PSI
Meth start PW %: (Rule of thumb: Add 4-5% to cruise %): 14%
Meth Peak PW%: (Rule of Thumb: Set 5% BELOW peak PW% at WOT): 69%
Ratio of PW to Boost: 65%PW/35%Boost (For a Roots or T/S that hits instantly, BIAS toward PW, for a slow spooling boost ramp (Centri or Turbos, bias towards Boost).
With the MPG max kit, you use two Nozzles and a fluid control solenoid. You tune as above but only using the SMALL nozzle, then you pick a BOOST point where you want the secondary (big) nozzle to kick in. I will be adding that soon. They claim you can pick up 2-3 MPG...we shall see. If not I'll remove the MPG max feature and just stick with what I have.
Nozzle selection:
There are many, many manufacturers of nozzles. Each manufacturer claims theirs are superior and the others are not as good. I looked at Snow, AEM, Devil's Own, AIS, etc.
Also - Each manufacturer "rates" the nozzles differently. Snow rates theirs at 60 PSI. Others rate theirs at 100 PSI. The pumps everyone uses now run at 250 PSI. So...you have to take the nozzle rating and convert it or Google for test data on the internets. It is a pain.
In short, I used the Snow 375 ml/minute nozzle because it actually flows around 550 ml/min at 220 PSI.
When I switch to dual nozzles and add the MPG max setup, I'll probably use a 175 and a 375. The 175 will flow 340 ml/min at 220 PSI. The system will "ramp up" progressively on the 175 and then when I hit big boost I'll hit both teh 175 and 375 simultaneously. I may have to play with sizing depending on the results so I don;t quench (too much meth and too much of a richening in A/F ratio).
They say target a 1/2 point drop in A/F ratio then add timing / boost as needed to make big power.
I WILL NOT be adding timing or boost until I get a forged engine and install the Snow Fail-Safe system with a boost bypass valve.
I am using the system to maintain my performance in the Atlanta hot weather. That means that my overall dyno power will likely DECREASE by maybe 5-15 RWHP wince I will be "excessively rich" but I will MAINTAIN consistent power even when it is hot out.
Without the meth, my car is a monster when you first start it and it is cool (engine warmed up but intercooler fluid / engine not yet fully heat -soaked). When I get into traffic / extended freeway cruising and then come to a stop and go again, I see IAT's in the low 130's. When moving again, I'll slowly drop to a 118 or so IAT (I'm talking ambient air temps of 80-95 degrees F in Atlanta). You can feel the car is a dog. With the meth, it drops my IAT's back down to 112-118 almost instantly and the car feels on the butt-dyno like it has so much more giddy-up but it will take testing to find out if that is placebo effect - when I have more time, I'll use my iPhone dyno app and do some 30-80 pulls and see if I actually shave any time while spraying the meth.
That's pretty much it. Here is some info I collated after searching for a few days. Thanks to whoever posted it originally:
Here is the formula to calculate flow rate vs pressure.
1. Divide new pressure by 100 psi (standard nozzle pressure)
Example: 140 divided 100 = 1.4
2. Obtain square root with calculator
Example 1.4 sq-root = 1.1832159
3. Multiply result by nozzle size at 100 psi
Example: 1.1832159 x 1.00 = 1.18 GPH
This is your new flow rate @ 140 psi of pressure.
hope this helps you.
Devil’s own Nozzle flow rates:
DO1 @ 200PSI 1.41GPH
D02 @ 200PSI 2.83GPH
DO3 @ 200PSI 4.24GPH
DO4 @ 200PSI 5.66GPH
D05 @ 200PSI 7.07GPH
DO7 @ 200PSI 9.90GPH
DO10 @ 200PSI 14.14GPH
Great info here that I used:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6118472-Nozzle-flow-test-results&p=85495091
Excerpts from the above...Note the Snow Performance Nozzle Flow Rates at 220PSI at 13.8 volts and how much they differ from the 60 PSI flow rates - expressed in ml/minute. I converted to add the GP/H column, which is what some manufacturers use:
Nozzle / ml/min / GPH
60 / 90 / 1.42
100/ 186 / 2.95
175/ 340/ 5.39
225 / 425 / 6.74
375/ 550/ 8.72
625 / 1375/ 21.80
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