Synyster06Gates
Senior Member
Im sure I will. Been watching videos all day
Let's talk cams.
- Thread starter Synyster06Gates
- Start date
Hey fellas I'm a little late to the thread but I just wanted to give my opinion for guys who read this in the future.
I did alot of research on cams and I almost went with the hotrods, but I found the Cushman motorsports stage 1 N/A cams and decided on them, and heres why:
I wanted a N/A cam that would match up good with a blower running relatively low boost (7lbs or so) and that would have a decent lopey idle but not shake the hell out of my car and rape my gas mileage.
LSA for guys who might not know is lobe separation angle. Its a big deal in cams. A cam with an LSA of 180 would mean that the highest point of the lobe for the intake valve would be 180 degrees away from the highest point of the exhaust lobe, in other words the intake valve would completely open just as the exhaust valve completely closed, So there would be literally no overlap. Now no engine is built with LSAs like that, but I use that example just to give someone who might not know an idea of what it is.
For all intensive purposes, aftermarket cams for our cars come in 2 different categories, NA and blower cams
Blower cams: Designed to maximize power on supercharged vehicles. They have higher LSAs (114-116) because a higher LSA generally means less overlap(overlap is when the intake and exhaust valves are open at the same time) so that means less of your boosted air fuel mixture is pissed directly out the exhaust valve and wasted. They also have a greater difference in IN/EX duration (around 15-20 degrees) because the extra exhaust generated from FI needs extra time to evacuate the combustion chamber.
NA cams for our 3 valves I like to subcategorize into 2 different categories
This is where people might get pissed haha)
N/A performance cams: Designed to maximize power on N/A engines. Generally they have LSAs of 12-114, maybe lower if the lift is high like on a stage 2 or 3 with spring and phaser replacements. The stage 1 cams or small ones, i.e. ones that dont need cam and phaser replacements, do not have 110 and 109 LSAs because at that point you are sacrificing power for a lopey sounding idle. The IN/EX duration difference is usually around 8-12.
N/A ricer cams: Designed to maximize posing on N/A engines. Tiny LSAs (109,110) with massive INT/EX duration differences (16-20) so they lope harder than a pimp with a sprained ankle. I'm talking about FRPP hotrods, comp mutha thumprs, that nsr american muscle shit. Will you see power gains if you install these? Yeah, but thats a side effect. Their primary purpose is to make your engine sound as close as possible to a fully built, ported and polished 302 stroker with stage 3 cams without actually BEING one. Haha sorry but thats about as ricey as a fart can.
The CMS stage 1 N/A cams are sweet because they are max out the stock springs lift at .470 and you dont need phasers, they have a decent LSA of 112 so if you go FI they'll be more efficient and it will idle smoother so it wont be a pain in the ass to drive every day, and they will still give a noticable lope without raping your mileage. In other words they're much more performance oriented. Plus I paid 650 with my military discount and he offers a rebate, which is competitive.
Before I get off my soap box I just want to say that I know I might be coming across as an ass**** but its not because I'm trying to shit on your new cams just for the hell of it. The hotrods do sound ill and offer some decent power, but they sacrifice power for lope, and that is ricey anyway you cut it. I'm not saying rice is bad, I'm just saying its not me. Just because a non functional hood scoop can look good doesn't mean I want one on my car. I mean if you want your car to sound like it has serious cams, then put up the extra dough for springs and phasers and actually GET serious cams.
I did alot of research on cams and I almost went with the hotrods, but I found the Cushman motorsports stage 1 N/A cams and decided on them, and heres why:
I wanted a N/A cam that would match up good with a blower running relatively low boost (7lbs or so) and that would have a decent lopey idle but not shake the hell out of my car and rape my gas mileage.
LSA for guys who might not know is lobe separation angle. Its a big deal in cams. A cam with an LSA of 180 would mean that the highest point of the lobe for the intake valve would be 180 degrees away from the highest point of the exhaust lobe, in other words the intake valve would completely open just as the exhaust valve completely closed, So there would be literally no overlap. Now no engine is built with LSAs like that, but I use that example just to give someone who might not know an idea of what it is.
For all intensive purposes, aftermarket cams for our cars come in 2 different categories, NA and blower cams
Blower cams: Designed to maximize power on supercharged vehicles. They have higher LSAs (114-116) because a higher LSA generally means less overlap(overlap is when the intake and exhaust valves are open at the same time) so that means less of your boosted air fuel mixture is pissed directly out the exhaust valve and wasted. They also have a greater difference in IN/EX duration (around 15-20 degrees) because the extra exhaust generated from FI needs extra time to evacuate the combustion chamber.
NA cams for our 3 valves I like to subcategorize into 2 different categories
This is where people might get pissed haha)N/A performance cams: Designed to maximize power on N/A engines. Generally they have LSAs of 12-114, maybe lower if the lift is high like on a stage 2 or 3 with spring and phaser replacements. The stage 1 cams or small ones, i.e. ones that dont need cam and phaser replacements, do not have 110 and 109 LSAs because at that point you are sacrificing power for a lopey sounding idle. The IN/EX duration difference is usually around 8-12.
N/A ricer cams: Designed to maximize posing on N/A engines. Tiny LSAs (109,110) with massive INT/EX duration differences (16-20) so they lope harder than a pimp with a sprained ankle. I'm talking about FRPP hotrods, comp mutha thumprs, that nsr american muscle shit. Will you see power gains if you install these? Yeah, but thats a side effect. Their primary purpose is to make your engine sound as close as possible to a fully built, ported and polished 302 stroker with stage 3 cams without actually BEING one. Haha sorry but thats about as ricey as a fart can.
The CMS stage 1 N/A cams are sweet because they are max out the stock springs lift at .470 and you dont need phasers, they have a decent LSA of 112 so if you go FI they'll be more efficient and it will idle smoother so it wont be a pain in the ass to drive every day, and they will still give a noticable lope without raping your mileage. In other words they're much more performance oriented. Plus I paid 650 with my military discount and he offers a rebate, which is competitive.
Before I get off my soap box I just want to say that I know I might be coming across as an ass**** but its not because I'm trying to shit on your new cams just for the hell of it. The hotrods do sound ill and offer some decent power, but they sacrifice power for lope, and that is ricey anyway you cut it. I'm not saying rice is bad, I'm just saying its not me. Just because a non functional hood scoop can look good doesn't mean I want one on my car. I mean if you want your car to sound like it has serious cams, then put up the extra dough for springs and phasers and actually GET serious cams.
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BruceH
BBB Big Bore Boss 322
It sounds like you are just as ricer (your definition, not mine) as anyone else, lol.
Hot rods combined with long tube headers do make decent power. They are the ones that started the 3v sound cams.
Did you look at comp 127050? I've thought that those cams would really help both n/a and blower cars with stock springs but it seems like nobody ever runs them.
"It sounds like you are just as ricer (your definition, not mine) as anyone else, lol."
Nowhere in what I said could you get that. I said a decent lopey idle. Hotrods and thumprs are lopey as hell, they sound like stage 2 or 3 cams. My stage 1 cams sound like stage 1 cams. Thats not rice
"Hot rods combined with long tube headers do make decent power."
yeah i said that already. They make more power than stock cams. They are also made to sound bigger than they are at the expense of performance, which is rice and why I personally dont like them. If you like them and have them in your car, good for you man. I just wanted to offer a different perspective for a noob or lurker who is thinking about camming his whip.
Nowhere in what I said could you get that. I said a decent lopey idle. Hotrods and thumprs are lopey as hell, they sound like stage 2 or 3 cams. My stage 1 cams sound like stage 1 cams. Thats not rice
"Hot rods combined with long tube headers do make decent power."
yeah i said that already. They make more power than stock cams. They are also made to sound bigger than they are at the expense of performance, which is rice and why I personally dont like them. If you like them and have them in your car, good for you man. I just wanted to offer a different perspective for a noob or lurker who is thinking about camming his whip.
05stroker
Never enough power guy!
From urban dictionary:
2. Whip
A Nice Car , usually expensive.
Ex: Damn, Check out that Tight Whip! That's them G's right there!
3. Whip
What naughty girls are punished with.
Ex: She moaned with orgasmic glee when I slapped her ass with my whip.
I was referring to definition 2 earlier lol. Seriously though boys, lets have some respect for the rules and keep this convo on topic. If you want to call me out for being too fly for a white guy, then use the internet warrior thread or whatever.
2. Whip
A Nice Car , usually expensive.
Ex: Damn, Check out that Tight Whip! That's them G's right there!
3. Whip
What naughty girls are punished with.
Ex: She moaned with orgasmic glee when I slapped her ass with my whip.
I was referring to definition 2 earlier lol. Seriously though boys, lets have some respect for the rules and keep this convo on topic. If you want to call me out for being too fly for a white guy, then use the internet warrior thread or whatever.
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05stroker
Never enough power guy!
Haha
That's a cute emoticon man.
Anyways, for all you noobs out there, all im saying is just realize that if you put sound cams in your whip, understand that an asshole might give you shit and call you a ricer. Doesn't mean that anyone who has them is a douche or something, just means its a ricey mod because people usually get em for the sound not the performance.
If you want respect from serious enthusiasts, get a cam that's not trying to be something it's not
Anyways, for all you noobs out there, all im saying is just realize that if you put sound cams in your whip, understand that an asshole might give you shit and call you a ricer. Doesn't mean that anyone who has them is a douche or something, just means its a ricey mod because people usually get em for the sound not the performance.
If you want respect from serious enthusiasts, get a cam that's not trying to be something it's not
NotaHybrid
I'm slow
Enthusiasts mod their car how they like. You don't mod for other people. No one cares if hot rods are ricey or not, or at least I don't. I've got Detroit rockers and love them. I wouldn't think twice about installing them again.
Sent from my helicopter
Sent from my helicopter
Dude there is a difference between people who buy nonfunctional hood scoops and sound cams and those who don't. There's a difference between guys who buy a ton of crappy parts and throw them on and other guys who save their money and buy a bigger turbo with the same amount of money. There is a difference between guys like me who blow their last 150 bucks on motor mounts and go hungry a couple meals and those who don't. And there always will be
BruceH
BBB Big Bore Boss 322
What are you trying to prove? That's an awfully big chip on your shoulder.
GB2010GT
Roll Tide
@saleen
I am one of those "noobs" that plans on "camming my whip" haha and I appreciate your input. I love the way the Hotrods and muthathumpa's sound.. But I am interested in making as much power as I can. My LT's are on the way and I'm going to start saving for cams. How much difference in power between Hot Rods / CMS Stg1's are we talking here, roughly...
I am one of those "noobs" that plans on "camming my whip" haha and I appreciate your input. I love the way the Hotrods and muthathumpa's sound.. But I am interested in making as much power as I can. My LT's are on the way and I'm going to start saving for cams. How much difference in power between Hot Rods / CMS Stg1's are we talking here, roughly...
Who's hijacking the thread now? Your statement has nothing to do with Austin's original post or why he made this thread. You came in here as a Newb to the site basically insulting his choice of cams because they (in your opinion) aren't up to your standards. it's either a chip or you think your shit doesn't stink because your parts are better,more expensive and show more power gains. On top of that,this thread was pretty much done until you came in here and stirred the pot. You sound very knowledgeable like you know your way around the garage but are making yourself look like a pretentious ass wad. I'm not saying you are but you never get a second chance to make a first impression.
" how much difference in hp are we talking about roughly"
Good question. I'd guess around 10.
"Your statement has nothing to do with andres original post or why he made this thread"
I think it has to do with the heart of his original thread. Talking cams. Some cams are sound cams, others are not. People who are serious about performance don't get sound cams.
"Blah blah blah pretentious ass wad"
I'm not the one calling names and hijacking threads here, brah
Good question. I'd guess around 10.
"Your statement has nothing to do with andres original post or why he made this thread"
I think it has to do with the heart of his original thread. Talking cams. Some cams are sound cams, others are not. People who are serious about performance don't get sound cams.
"Blah blah blah pretentious ass wad"
I'm not the one calling names and hijacking threads here, brah
"I am one of those "noobs" that plans on "camming my whip" haha and I appreciate your input. I love the way the Hotrods and muthathumpa's sound.. But I am interested in making as much power as I can."
I want to finish my response to what you said here, man. Ok so you want to cam your whip and you love the way hotrods and thumpers sound, but you want to make power right?
Well heres the deal, bro: Horsepower costs money. If you want powerful cams, your gonna have to dish out for springs and phasers, and realize that your mpg and daily driveability will suffer. Idk if you were planning the install yourself, but if you weren't you could use the dough you were gonna spend in labor on the springs and phasers and learn how to do it yourself. If not, then just save longer, or put it towards a sc. Theres no easy answers man. Its a rich man's hobby, naw mean? In my opinion the CMS stage 1s are the best all around performance nsr cams on the market. For my build, I dont want anything above a stage 1.
Exact hp numbers are hard to come by. I'd bet anyday the CMS stage 1s are making more, but the only way to know exactly how much more would be to take two gts with the exact same mods on the exact same day in the exact same weather and dyno them a few times. Even then some cars just make less hp from the factory.
Plus you gotta ask yourself what you want in the end before you even begin. Lol I mean everyone is "interested in making as much power as they can". Are you interested in buying and installing new fuel pumps when your stock system cant support your power anymore? Are you interested in dropping thousands on a forged motor? How much money do you want to sink into your ride? Do you want a fast daily driver with 400rwhp for, or a 9 second track monster that can run barely putt around town cause it has a kenne bell running 18lbs of boost and stage 3 cams?
I want to finish my response to what you said here, man. Ok so you want to cam your whip and you love the way hotrods and thumpers sound, but you want to make power right?
Well heres the deal, bro: Horsepower costs money. If you want powerful cams, your gonna have to dish out for springs and phasers, and realize that your mpg and daily driveability will suffer. Idk if you were planning the install yourself, but if you weren't you could use the dough you were gonna spend in labor on the springs and phasers and learn how to do it yourself. If not, then just save longer, or put it towards a sc. Theres no easy answers man. Its a rich man's hobby, naw mean? In my opinion the CMS stage 1s are the best all around performance nsr cams on the market. For my build, I dont want anything above a stage 1.
Exact hp numbers are hard to come by. I'd bet anyday the CMS stage 1s are making more, but the only way to know exactly how much more would be to take two gts with the exact same mods on the exact same day in the exact same weather and dyno them a few times. Even then some cars just make less hp from the factory.
Plus you gotta ask yourself what you want in the end before you even begin. Lol I mean everyone is "interested in making as much power as they can". Are you interested in buying and installing new fuel pumps when your stock system cant support your power anymore? Are you interested in dropping thousands on a forged motor? How much money do you want to sink into your ride? Do you want a fast daily driver with 400rwhp for, or a 9 second track monster that can run barely putt around town cause it has a kenne bell running 18lbs of boost and stage 3 cams?
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Synyster06Gates
Senior Member
Never once in my life have I heard someone call someone else a ricer for having different camshafts in their vehicle.
Serious question, how is doing something for sound rather than performance ricey? I guess guys that buy different axlebacks are ricer? How is me spending $700 for cams any different than someone else spending $650 on Borla axlebacks? It's just for sound- right? I'm going to get more gains with Hot Rods than they will with the axlebacks.
Here's the deal - I'm not trying to be the fastest on the street. I'm not trying to get the best numbers. I just want a fun, enjoyable daily driver. Hot Rods and other NSR cams do that. They don't sacrifice driveability and they sound great. If I planned to go turbo down the line and wanted to make 500+ rwhp, sure, it's a bad choice. But I'm not. In fact, aside from LTs, I don't think theres anything else I'm even going to do to the car. As Dan said, you sound like you're an educated guy, but damn you come off as an ass.
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Well I guess I'm not invited to your birthday party.
I'm not calling you anything, I'm just saying that sound cams are lame and ricey and I backed it up with substance.
Theres a difference between a car that is loud because it was modified to sound like it has more power than it does, and a car that is so powerful it can't help but be loud.
I'm not calling you anything, I'm just saying that sound cams are lame and ricey and I backed it up with substance.
Theres a difference between a car that is loud because it was modified to sound like it has more power than it does, and a car that is so powerful it can't help but be loud.
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