Lunati VooDoo #21270700 Camshafts

Discussion in 'Mustang Chit Chat' started by GlassTop09, May 24, 2019.

  1. GlassTop09

    GlassTop09 Junior Member

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    Hello All,

    New to forums but I was wondering if anyone here has run these cams. I'm looking at possibly getting a set of these to run in my car.

    Not looking for a lopey cam like the FRPP Hot Rods, Brenspeed Detroit Rockers or Comp Cams Thumpers\Mutha Thumpers but a set of cams that perform very stock like at low RPMs w\ very little to no low end TQ loss w\ good idle but do provide increased mid to high end HP & TQ gains vs the stock Ford OEM cams.

    I haven't heard of or read of anyone using this particular set of Lunati camshafts in the Ford 4.6L\5.4L Modular Engines but they offer 12 different VooDoo cam profiles for these engines so I was curious if anyone here has run them. The Lunati VooDoo #21270700 cams are the mildest ones they make & from looking at the cam info given on their web site they seem very comparable to Comp Cams XFI NSR Stage II camshafts cam info in expected performance envelope.

    Planning on staying NA w\ this build (mostly cruiser\car show duty) & have installed the following engine wise: FRPP "Bullit" 85mm CAI, BK 62mm TB, FRPP Intake Manifold, Kooks 1 5\8" LT headers, Kooks Catted X-Pipe, Pypes Super Bomb Mid Muffler catback exhaust so all that is left to do is install a better breathing set of cams on an otherwise stock 4.6L bottom end to finish it up. Has been dyno tuned w\ the parts mentioned above & the OEM cams to 331HP\326TQ (from 273HP\275TQ stock) on 91 oct pump gas. Have a set of FRPP Black Wrinkle Coated Etched Valve Covers to install when the cams are installed.

    Would appreciate any feedback on these cams if available.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Dino Dino Bambino

    Dino Dino Bambino I have a red car

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    The specs of the mildest Lunati Voodoo cams are indeed similar to the Comp NSR Stage 2 #127200 and with a wide 116* LSA, the idle should be smooth and almost like stock.
    You could also consider the Comp NSR Stage 1 #127050 cams. They're more aggressive than stock but are the mildest of the performance cams. You'd see torque gains from ~4500rpm upwards with minimal loss at lower rpm, and a peak gain of 20-25rwhp.
     
  3. eighty6gt

    eighty6gt forum member

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    I would install something more aggressive. I can't comment on my comp 127300's being any softer than stock at low rpm since I have a supercharger, but they would pick up at 3000. Most of the time at low rpm you're also at low throttle openings with plenty of performance overhead.
     
  4. 07 Boss

    07 Boss forum member

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    Definitely want to go more aggressive with your mods. The only way you are going to see gains from the manifold and throttle body is to run some RPM's. Any time you narrow up the power band your going to move the curve higher into the rpm's and that leaves you lacking down low. I understand you want to find a balance but you're not going to see gains unless you give up a little somewhere else. My suggestion if you want a good boost in power without giving up the low end is do a combination of an aggressive cam with some rear end gears. This will help alleviate any any power losses down low.
     
  5. ghunt81

    ghunt81 New parts on old junk! S197 Team Member

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    FWIW I was originally looking at the Lunati cams a couple years back and couldn't find anyone running them either. They have this huge selection and yet nobody seems to be using them. I could only find the one short video from Blue Collar Performance of the '08 GT with Lunati's big n/a cams idling, looks like that's still one of the only videos out there.

    Ended up buying from Cushman Motorsports during one of their sales because the price was so good.
     
  6. 07 Boss

    07 Boss forum member

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    I would have gone with the CMS cams had they been out when I got my Comp NSR cams. I believe they had one of the more aggressive cam profiles that didn't need spring replacement.
     
  7. ghunt81

    ghunt81 New parts on old junk! S197 Team Member

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    I just got their stage 1's which are similar to the Hot Rods but a little less aggressive at idle. Got them for $200 less than the Hot Rods were going for at the time too.
     
  8. GlassTop09

    GlassTop09 Junior Member

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    I've found a few YouTube videos myself of these Lunati Voodoo series cams being used in some '05-'08 S197's (one was a single turbocharger setup) but none listed the part # on them so that you could ID which was which. I've ran the specs given on the #21270700's thru a couple of cam timing calculator softwares to get the IVO, IVC, EVO, EVC, OL and static cam timing advance\retard numbers (also to get numerical consensus on these numbers) then made comparisons to the Ford OEM stock production cam numbers as well as to Comp Cams NSR Stage 1 #127050, NSR Stage 2 #127200, FRPP Hot Rod cams and Comp Detroit Rocker NA cams after running the given specs thru both calculators.....in short, these Lunati #21270700's compare very closely to the Comp Cams NSR #127200 cam profile in almost every aspect when compared against the OEM production cam profile. The Lunati #21270700 are a NSR, no phaser mod\limiter required (interpreted to mean that this cam profile is designed to operate within the full OEM VCT swing range of 60* retard) and are OEM tune compatible (as listed on their website) or "fully drop-in". The Lunati OL w\ 116* LSA & 102* ICL is 38* (OEM OL is 34* w/ 114.75* LSA & 101* ICL) so idle should be smooth w\ good vacuum but have a slightly deeper note w\ maybe a slight hint of lope vs OEM, depending on tune. Lunati IVO is 30* BTDC, IVC is 54* ABDC, EVO is 88* BBDC, EVC is 8* ATDC w\ 14* static cam advance timing ground in for Intake 264* dur, Exh 276* dur advertised (OEM IVO is 15* BTDC, IVC is 53* ABDC, EVO is 80* BBDC, EVC is 19* ATDC w\ 5.25* static cam advance timing ground in for Intake 248* dur, Exh 279* dur advertised). From these numbers this Lunati cam #21270700 should lose very little low end power\torque vs OEM (EVC is almost identical so dynamic compression should be almost equal so should generate very similar static cylinder pressures during the compression stroke & power stroke initially but since Lunati's EVO is 8* earlier than OEM EVO this "could" slightly reduce TOTAL mechanical force applied to crank journal on DS at the degree of leverage from initial gas expansion loss thru exhaust port during the power stroke at low RPM), but could also be made up for due to better exhaust gas scavaging\ intake cylinder filling from advancing the IVO\EVC timings during OL on the Lunati's vs OEM to further reduce potential EGR effects from exhaust gas reversion....LT headers\FF exhaust as well as better flowing intake system will help the Lunati's here even more across the board vs OEM to generate similar HP\TQ numbers at low RPM but improve HP at mid\high RPM by reducing peak mid\high RPM TQ loss rate up the RPM scale at a much better rate (ie, flattening the curve).... Since most of the NSR "drop-in" cams across brands share very similar lift specs vs the OEM lift spec of I @.436", E @.439" (most are at I @.450", E @.450" to safely stay fully VCT compliant as well as OEM valve spring compliant w\ the exception of the FRPP Hot Rod cams @ I @.472", E @.472" which are cutting it close....most other brands require phaser limiters and\or valve spring upgrade past this point) the differences heavily rely on IVO, IVC, EVO, EVC, OL, cam lobe profile shape & static cam timing vs base cam timing since area under the valve from lift will essentially be the same.

    I just might try these Lunati VooDoo #21270700 cams to see how they perform since I'm not looking for a max effort setup (IMHO this requires higher lift along w\ increased duration which require spring\valve upgrade along w\ phaser limiters or lockouts....ain't going there w\ this engine) but a good performing set of cams that give a smooth idle, minimize low end torque loss but give a good mid\high end gain for street use\cruising mostly but may hit her every now & then for fun. 1 thing I do know from talking w\ the folks at Lunati, they report having trouble maintaining stock due to low availability of acceptable cam core stock on the market so deliverability will be slow......which is fine as I'm not in any hurry or have a pressing need to do this at this time so I can wait for stock to become available.
     
  9. GlassTop09

    GlassTop09 Junior Member

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    Yeah I looked at these Comp Cams NSR Stage 1 #127050 cams as well. Running the numbers vs OEM these cams should actually better the OEM cam's HP\TQ numbers at low RPM due to the 127050's EVC closes 6.5* earlier than the OEM's EVC which should raise dynamic compression during compression stroke slightly higher which should give slightly higher cylinder pressure thus higher initial force during power stroke and since 127050's EVO is only 3* earlier than OEM's EVO this should maintain the gained power further up the RPM range so mid range HP\TQ should also be much better than OEM as well thus should carry into the high RPM as well due to advanced IVO\EVC during OL on #127050 (IVO @ 26.5* BTDC, EVC @ 7* ATDC vs OEM's IVO @ 15* BTDC, EVC @ 19* ATDC...better scavaging\cylinder fill at higher RPM's). 127050's OL is identical to OEM's (both @ 33.5* OL even though LSA\ICL are not the same) so idle quality should be virtually identical between the 2. This Comp Cams #127050 cam would make an excellent cam upgrade over stock for a 4.6L\5.4L 3V equipped truck (towing comes to mind) but can also work well for the ultimate DD use in manual equipped Mustangs running OEM gearing. I want a little more mid\high HP\TQ from my engine than #127050 will give so don't mind a potentially slight low end TQ loss (say less than 5-6 ft lb) as I've already installed 3.73" gears along w\ 26" tires (which gives slightly faster advantage compared to 4.10" gears w\ 28" tires.....a mean rolling ratio of approx 3.88"-3.90") so this end is already covered in my case. I could just go w\ the Comp Cam NSR Stage 2 #127200 cams instead but I like the Lunati sound as they were a VERY popular choice w\ the older SBC\BBC & SBF\BBF engine folks (lot of videos of Foxbody owners running them over the OEM B-cams as well as SBF\BBF truck owners up thru the late '90's until the Modulars came out, especially when the 3v appeared) so they've peaked my interest since it appears that not a lot of folks are running them. Maybe I just like being different.

    If I do get a set of them to run I'll post back on the results.

    :)
     
  10. GlassTop09

    GlassTop09 Junior Member

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    Update:

    Have ordered these Lunati VooDoo #21270700 cams thru ModMax Racing's web site (cheapest price of all Lunati carrying vendors) & they've finally arrived at my front door (FedEx) today. Might install these cams this weekend but this may change (contemplating also getting the FRPP lash adjuster & follower kit to swap all out while doing the cam install even though I couldn't detect any noise coming from the OEM lash adjusters, followers or any other timing components outside of the injector coils cycling the injector plungers w\ my stetethscope….shouldn't need to replace off my inspection results but need to make decision before starting work) as things arise between now & then.

    Just checked the actual cam card data against the calculated cam valve timings data derived from inputting the I & E duration, LSA & ICL data from Lunati's web site into Summit's Cam Timing Calculator & the data was a spot on match across the board so the Summit Cam Timing Calculator is a verified legit tool to get this cam timing info that the cam manuf's won't provide up front on their sites to assist in determining what to expect from an aftermarket camshaft vs OEM camshafts or other competitor's camshafts for comparison purposes.

    FYI...……………….
     
  11. GlassTop09

    GlassTop09 Junior Member

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    Update:

    Made the decision to forego getting the FRPP lash adjuster follower kit & installed these cams myself yesterday. All went well w\o much fuss (used the Ford Racing approved procedure as shown on the installation PDF for their Hot Rod cams which requires the use of a valve spring compressor along w\ the timing wedge tool...I bought 2 wedge tools so that I can change out both cams only having to position the engine thru 1 cycle then not have to pull the wedge tool out to then reset it for the other side...this procedure still takes longer but removes all the issues associated w\ installing these w\o removing the followers, main issue being the realignment\reinstall of the cam phaser back onto the camshaft nose to prevent any potential damage to phaser alignment pin). Installed my new FR Black Wrinkle Etched valve covers as well. I must say at this time that I tip my hat to the PO of my car on the maintenance upkeep as this 4.6L was virtually spotless....absolutely no varnish, much less sludge, on anything. Timing chains were tight w\ no slack of any kind & all guides showed to be in practically new shape w\ VERY little wear so tensioners were in excellent shape as well as all lash adjusters & followers & cam phasers for an engine showing 148,583 mi on the clock BUT looking at the guides they sure resembled the replacement guides that come in the FR Full Timing kit so either these were std in '09 4.6L's or the PO has already had these parts replaced prior.

    After all was finished & after rolling her over for several minutes to kinda settle the chains & all parts (also hoping to get some oil pressure to components before initial startup but y'all know how this usually goes w\ these Mod motors). Popped the FP fuse back in, pressured\primed the fuel rails then hit the starter....fired right up. Let it idle to allow the lash adjusters to reprime & pump up...took approx. 10 mins for this to fully clean up. Let engine idle to allow to reach full hot idle & ECU to do a relearn to then check the live data (both STFT & LTFT, MAF & TPS data in particular) then make comparison to same data seen when the OEM cams were installed to see if the new Lunati cams were showing any indication of improved airflow as the same ECU tune and same 91oct fuel is being used under same operating conditions. The short answer is that these Lunati VooDoo #21270700 cams did indeed show from the ECU data a 4%-6% improvement (derived from the LTFT % change backed up by the TPS angle change being set lower at ECU set idle speed of 790 RPM w\ the Lunati's (approx. .6-.8 TPS degrees thru a BBK #1763 62mm TB w\ MAF reading approx. .4-.6 gms\s higher) vs OEM's. Just from feel it seems that these Lunati cams may have increased low end torque over the OEM cams as well but will need a dyno to confirm this. Since these cams are showing indication of improved airflow tendency I'm gonna keep the engine's ECU in CL operation (part throttle) so ECU will maintain proper AFR until I can get her on the dyno to then retune ECU for WOT operation especially (ECU in OL the WOT fuel settings may cause lean conditions w\ the new Lunati cam's potential airflow improvements). Just to add, these cams went green on ECU emissions check within 25-30 mi of initial drive cycle performed (I use the Ford approved drive cycle procedure.....have no emissions certification in the county of NM where I live but I keep all active in ECU for diagnostics purposes anyway as I do run a set of Kooks Hi FLow Cats (don't like smelling the stinky unburnt fuel smell from running O\R mid pipes) so the ECU will monitor\maintain their health\operation.

    As for the exhaust sound, it is fairly smooth w\ a deeper note vs OEM but also there is a cadence present that seems to indicate there is a slight "lopiness" there (Lunati OL is 38* @ 116*LSA, OEM OL is 33.5* @ 114*LSA) but I think the high idle speed of 790 RPM is masking it some so I'm gonna get this reset back to 740-750 to see if this brings it out more (my local tuner uses HP Tuners software\equipment & I don't have a HPT nGauge device for my tuner to remote the changes to me to flash my ECU). I own a SCT X4 tuner but most tuners will lock access to their tune file from remote access so I can't do this myself unless I install another tune over his so have to wait for the upcoming tune session to rectify it all....or get a HPT nGauge tuner.

    All in all, I like what I've seen & experienced from these Lunati VooDoo #21270700 cams. The machine work is high quality as well as the material stock used to grind them (have VERY sharp edges...used gloves to keep from getting my fingers cut up while handling them). Gonna perform another drive cycle to include hiway driving at speed w\ CC engaged and w\ CC disengaged...after I recover from the install (back, leg & arm muscles were giving me fits at the end of this work & have been hurting me all day so I'm taking it easy to allow some recovery time so's I can sit in my Stang in comfort while driving her).

    Tuning is next on the list. Hoping to hit in the 350-360 HP\ 340-350 TQ range (currently was dyno'd at 331HP\326TQ NA running same FBO's w\ OEM camshafts).

    FYI...……...
     
    EBABlacknChrome likes this.
  12. Dino Dino Bambino

    Dino Dino Bambino I have a red car

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    Can't wait for the dyno results. Does your engine have underdrive pulleys?
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019 at 10:01 AM
  13. GlassTop09

    GlassTop09 Junior Member

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    Yes sir...…..Steeda Underdrive Pulley Setup is installed. 1st mod I bought along w/ a set of FR '07-'09 GT500 SVT 18"x 9.5" wheels (got all from CJ Pony Parts) & Continental Extreme Contact DWS06 tires 255/40/18 front, 295/35/18 rear @ 26" dia. (got these from Discount Tire locally) after I initially bought the car in 10-17 as a retirement present to myself.

    Finally got in touch w\ my local tuner (works currently as a salesman for the local Ford dealership but does tuning on the side) & have set up an appointment for Monday to put her on the rollers…..found out that he has contracted w\ another gent who has opened up a new performance speed shop in town so will be using a different dyno this time around from my prior session so will be interesting as to the final numbers we get.

    Took her out today to continue performing ECU relearn driving low speed stop & go then staging up speeds once I got out of in town driving in 5 mph increments using the CC to hold her steady to allow the ECU to relearn the LTFT adjustment to save to match the engine load & MAF calculation at RPM once the STFT's settled back into 0 switching (denotes proper AFR for conditions is attained). Did this up to about 90 mph (engine taching 2650 RPMs in 5th gear at this speed). All went well, engine was running very smooth & strong….could actually feel the engine picking up some power in the process. After running at 90 mph for approx. 3 mi then started stepping back down in 5 mi increments until I got close enough to town then I got back within the speed limits then headed straight to the local Ford dealership & had the car serviced while she was hot to clean up\out any fragments of dirt\trash that may have got into the oil pan\oil filter from falling unknowingly into head oil drain passages while changing out the cams (was gonna be due for servicing in 3 weeks anyway). Put approx. 85 more miles on the Lunati's today....checked engine w\ my stethoscope afterwards.....all quiet except for the fuel injectors so all is well.

    We shall see...…………….……….
     
  14. Dino Dino Bambino

    Dino Dino Bambino I have a red car

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    Do you still have the previous dyno sheets, especially the last one showing 331/326?
     
  15. GlassTop09

    GlassTop09 Junior Member

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    Yep.

    Once I figure out which image # of the dyno sheet I'll upload it.

    Here it is...………………………….

    IMG_0371.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019 at 10:45 AM
  16. 01yellerCobra

    01yellerCobra forum member

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    I'm sure you're having fun driving the car but you do realize when you take it in for the tune the ECU will be reset a few times right? Just an FYI so you can spend more time enjoying the drive.
     
  17. Dino Dino Bambino

    Dino Dino Bambino I have a red car

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    That's a nice spread of torque. I bet the car's a lot of fun to drive.
     
  18. GlassTop09

    GlassTop09 Junior Member

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    Yes I understand this. I also understand that anytime you disconnect the battery on these cars for any reason longer than approx. 5-10 mins the ECU will lose it's KAM data (the learned data from your driving habits, condition changes, cold thru hot idle, all emissions\components test results\monitoring data, etc that is outside of the base tune mapping). This data must (or at least should) be reestablished in a particular pattern to assist the ECU to relearn this data to facilitate good safe & consistent engine operation, especially when a component is changed\installed that will significantly change engine operating characteristics. This is why I religiously take my Stang thru the Ford ECU Relearn procedure then I take it thru a set of driving patterns that I do any time the battery is disconnected OR whenever I change/install a part that I know will affect the engine's operation in a direct way to minimize creating little adverse effects that can turn into major engine issues that can occur from the ECU being "forced" to have to relearn "on the fly" then not reacting fast enough. And yes, after the car gets retuned on the dyno I'm gonna take her thru my process again...………..got nothing against the tuner.

    I'd rather be safe than sorry. The thing bout doing this is that it's free.....don't cost you nothing but a little time & some gas......anytime I'm burning fuel driving my Stang them's good times!

    This is just my way of going about it. Yours may be different so more power to you!
     
  19. GlassTop09

    GlassTop09 Junior Member

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    Yes she is! This is from me also trying to match up all the mods\components so that they all compliment each other as best they can to try to achieve as much area under the curve as can be gotten....which makes for a very fun car to drive. This is why I try to use all FRPP parts that I can that fits within my goals as these parts are engineered to compliment each other. Did you notice the HP\TQ gains we picked up <2700 RPM's w\ this FRPP Intake Manifold installed? This is 1 area that I smile about when I see\read all the comments concerning this manifold causing low end torque loss as the results really depend on what you're comparing to. When I bought this manifold I ran it thru the same testing methodology vs the OEM manifold as I did these Lunati cams when I installed it & at hot idle the data from my scan tool showed me that this FRPPIM manifold was actually flowing slightly MORE airflow at idle (roughly 2% more from the LTFT% change & TPS position change when compared) vs my OEM manifold w\ the CMCV's. I ran all the tests to confirm the possibility of vacuum leaks w\ the FRPPIM....all tests came back negative which verified the results. I checked the OEM mani's runner lengths (longer runner lengths should improve airflow velocity\volume thruput at low RPM's regardless of the CMCV's....longer runners inside flow area is slightly reduced along the total length of the runner to create the velocity) w\ a measuring tape & saw that they indeed measured 14" (FRPPIM runner lengths are 9.5" measured) but I then flipped it over so that I could look inside thru the TB opening at the roof & saw that 3" of what we think is runner length actually isn't.....3" of this is only case molding in the roof as this 3'' is actually open plenum area, the actual mean runner length of the OEM runners is 11"....only 1.5" longer than the FRPPIM's so in reality this "difference" is less than margin of error. The real difference IMHO in favor of the OEM manifold is the tuning that compliments the usage\purpose of the CMCV's along w\ the VCT control to maintain lowered cylinder temps at low RPM's to reduce NOX emissions (was the purpose of the EGR system on earlier engines & why the 3V's & up don't require 1, it's all handled by the ECU's now using CMCV's & VCT) by the CMCV's creating increased air flow velocity when closed (which requires a restriction--or pressure drop--to achieve increased air flow velocity at the expense of some air volume reduction) down 1 side of intake tract to create air tumble into the cylinder to promote mixing of the back flowed exhaust gasses created by the ECU monitoring CC temps, cat operating temps\O2 post cat readouts will activate the VCT to retard camshaft timing to allow some exhaust gas to revert back into the CC as needed (note the EVC closes at 19* ATDC w\ OEM cams...the piston is actually starting to move down into intake stroke just before the EVC creating exhaust back flow into the CC) w\ the incoming fresh air\fuel to achieve good air fuel burn w\o creating hot\cool areas within the CC by uneven fuel burn to maintain the necessary CC temp reduction to cut NOX formation. This creates 2 side effects, 1. Better fuel economy due to using less fuel at low RPM's (why when you remove the CMCV's city & some hiway MPG usually tanks) and 2. Maintain torque IMHO due to the cooler cylinder temps facilitating the ECU using more spark timing advance at VCT full cam timing advance due to the knock sensors staying quiet (why I believe that when the CMCV's are removed AND the tune isn't revised to compensate at low RPM's the cylinder temps start to climb, the knock sensors start going off hence the ECU starts retarding spark timing and\or retarding cam timing and\or richening fuel until the conditions correct thus cutting low end torque in the process). I actually saw my ECU cutting spark advance right after initial throttle tip in off idle thru my scan tool reading the live data then return the timing after the ECU started calling for more fuel to richen up (1 way how ECU can cool cylinder temps to stop knock but also cuts low RPM MPG efficiency as well, other is VCT retard cam timing at low RPM's which will reduce low end torque by reducing dynamic compression-IVC closing later in crankshaft rotation-which will lower final cylinder pressures during compression stroke as well creating less heat when ignited, thus less gas expansion force thus less torque) thru my scan tool after installing the FRPPIM on my car. When I had my car tuned I brought this up w\ my tuner (along w\ a copy of the actual tune modification steps snipped off HP Tuners web forum to copy the open IMRC tables over the closed IMRC tables & some other setting changes to "trick" the ECU to use the open IMRC mappings (power mappings) across the board as the ECU is coded to default to the closed IMRC tables if the IMRC switch in the tune is disabled or ECU detects the CMCV controller has failed w\ IMRC switch enabled (MIL light comes on....controller usually fails closed as it spends the vast majority of it's time closed under normal driving conditions...). My tuner was fully aware of this already (he was certified thru HP Tuners Ford certification courses & it was HP Tuner techs who discovered this w\ the Ford Copperhead ECU when the CMCV's are disabled....back in 2008) so he made the necessary tune changes\tweaks along w\ slightly enrichening the fuel at idle just enough to keep the knock sensors quiet at throttle tip in from going too lean cutting spark timing & the results is what you see on the graphs. Low RPM MPG did suffer but not bad enough to complain as the low RPM torque gains made it all worthwhile as she is a breeze creeping around at low speeds w\ that much torque......doesn't require hardly any throttle input.....will snap your neck back good if you aren't prepared for it getting sloppy w\ the right foot on the throttle...…. Also why I won't let no one drive my car that ain't got the money to cover any damage incurred to her...……….

    This WILL spoil you rotten using a manual trans as this will allow 1 the option to run a taller gear but still maintain good drivability.....same reasoning behind using taller gears w\ FI. But if you apply specific shorter gearing AND smaller tire diameter to properly match up w\ increased NA engine torque...………………..you can hurt a few feelings if you wanted to...…….

    IOW's it's not the FRPPIM per se that's the real issue IMHO & it's getting a bad rap in some respects. You have the exact same issue if you use CMCV delete plates on the 05-08 OEM intake manifolds which has to be fixed the same way. The real "issue" is the FRPPIM's cost vs Steeda CMCV delete plates cost for essentially the same "uncorrected" results. Since I have a 09 4.6L I had no choice but to replace the intake (CMCV's are built into manifold & Steeda discontinued the CMCV plug kit to remove them, couldn't find a 05-08 mani cheap enuff to justify going the CMCV delete route vs the FRPPIM and the FRPPIM is just too good looking of a piece for me to walk away from & couldn't find anyone that had 1 used for sale at the time...was really wanting to get ahold of 1 of the now discontinued C&L Performance Intake Manifolds as this manifold had all of the right engineering design applied to make power across the entire range w\ the exception of heak soaking due to the aluminum metal construction but also found no one wanting to sell theirs) as I wanted the CMCV's gone so I splurged for it in spite of all the comments.

    Needless to say, I don't regret buying it at all! Oh yeah, since you asked about underdrive pulleys, I also have a FR 1-piece aluminum DS installed as well to decrease rotational mass which transfers more torque to the wheels along w\ an Exedy HP Racing Lightened CM Steel Flywheel w\ Exedy Mach 500 Stage 3 Grooved Clutch kit to achieve the same thing AND provide extra holding force to ensure all torque gets to the rear wheels & a full BMR rear suspension setup (both LCA's, adj UCA w\ HD mount, adj PH bar & PHB brace....all w\ the red BMR poly bushings-including the UCA axle side bushing-w\ UCA set for -2 pinion angle along w\ Steeda Frame Rail & Torque Box Connectors installed so my rear end doesn't experience wheel hop under launch which also puts all the torque it can to the ground). She handles the corners pretty good too due to replacing my shocks\struts w\ Koni STRT's and replacing all the old front\rear OEM sway bar bushings w\ the FR red poly sway bar bushing kit to increase their effectiveness to control body roll to compliment the Continentals. All this adds to the NA driving experience as well.

    Can't wait for tomorrow to get here to get my baby on the rollers to see what these Lunati VooDoo cams can give me!
     
  20. Dino Dino Bambino

    Dino Dino Bambino I have a red car

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    I bought a set of used CMCVs, converted them to CMDPs, swapped them onto the car, and uploaded a Brenspeed 91 octane custom tune. Gained performance and mpg. The key is a good tune and Brenspeed nailed it.
    I then converted my original CMCVs to CMDPs and sold them for a profit. Still have two CMCV actuators to sell too.
    The FRPP manifold tends to flatten the mid-range of the torque curve and extend the top end, while having little effect on the bottom end. For 09-10 GT owners, no longer having charge motion delete plugs available means the FRPP manifold is the only available intake manifold upgrade.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019 at 8:33 AM