Need input on how to improve DD ride

[5.0 Probie]

Morning folks. Now having around 25k miles on my current suspension setup...

Vorshlag's Bilstein Street Pro's / Vorshlag Adjustable CC Plates / Steeda Sport Springs-PHB / BMR LCA's and Brackets

I am nothing but pleased when it comes to enjoying a spirited drive. However, I do 95% of my driving on the crappy roads in Pierce/Thurston and King County that have been neglected since 2007 (They have us paying for road repairs, but the jerk off politicians in our State moved the funds elsewhere during the recession and have not yet corrected this theft) and let me tell you.

The ride is similar to just cutting springs and hitting the axle on a few of our roads. We consistently have to drive like idiots, going around the rough spots on the roads.

And of course we made the mistake of test driving the new PP Mustang GT Premium. It can care less about the crappy roads.

But Pepper is paid for! And I want to get a better set of springs or?? So we can have a better DD performance, and NOT go back to the hoopty dance/sloppy nose diving stock suspension either.

I have read quite a few threads here on suspension. I have made a few calls.

But I must be honest and say, it seems most of the time those responding take their cars to the track more often than not. And I am not. I am looking for real world DD solutions at this point.

Should I try a different set of springs? Should I bite the bullet and go coils or air?

Thank you for your input!

 

[eighty6gt]

Vorschlag have different springs they recommend?

I installed the softer frpp jounce dampers. Also run the roush lowering springs which are supposed to have a decent ride. It's a lot better than the stock springs and Koni orange struts and shocks.

Vorshlag guy said these cars will never have great compliance. They literally have the simplest suspension possible. He said get a BMW! They are called the "ultimate driving machine."

 

[Champale]

What size wheels are you running and what tires do you have?

 

[lemkau77]

http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&productid=179&superpro=0

I have spoke with the BMR rep on these, and they are supposed to be a softer ride like stock, but still good for when you want to go out and have some fun. 1.5" drop, not sure what you are currently running. I am thinking of switching to these this year.

 

[Pentalab]

I have the full Roush.... 'street-race' suspension package. (1" drop at front..and 1.25" drop at rear). The Roush springs are supposed to be aprx 30% stiffer than oem. Oem suspension would nose dive on braking ( and lift real bad on the rear as well). Oem would lean on corners. Oem would cause the front end to lift, back end squat, when you mash the gas.

Roush setup ( along with BMR adj UCA /LCA's /lca re-locate brackets, and a bunch of other stuff makes the car handle great...as long as the roads are smooth. It won't handle man hole covers, speed bumps, shit roads etc etc. I have to drive around all that stuff..and take speed bumps at 1 mph max. Roush setup includes bigger diam front + rear sway bars..so it doesn't lean like oem. This works good,at least for aggressive DD use, without having to resort to stiffer spring rates.

I'm convinced it's the roush shocks ( or what ever brand they re-branded). I notice how folks who use stuff like adjustable Tokico D specs, always run em on...'full soft' when used for DD around town. (then crank em up stiffer when used on the hwy, or a long trip on hwy, or for autocross, road course etc).

I'm really getting irritated driving the car lately. I'm using my 2011 Fusion more and more, suspension is firm..but not stiff.

I'm fairly sure the oem springs are aprx 100 lbs..which would make the roush springs aprx 130 lbs..which is not a helluva lot. I'm sure the roush shocks are the culprit...way too stiff..at least for shit roads..or anything other than a minor imperfection. Right now, hit a bump..at speed, and it's ready to go air borne. I'm thinking, perhaps oem shocks would be a lot better ?

The problem with any of these typ lowering springs like roush and frpp uses, the mating shocks they provide are the same length as oem...so you have just lost an inch of travel.

 

[Pentalab]

http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&productid=179&superpro=0

I have spoke with the BMR rep on these, and they are supposed to be a softer ride like stock, but still good for when you want to go out and have some fun. 1.5" drop, not sure what you are currently running. I am thinking of switching to these this year.

These are listed as 165 lbs front..and 160 lbs rear. They are listed as linear (and not progressive). The spring rates are plenty enough.... what I don't like is the 1.5" front + rear drop. IMO, 1" is plenty on the front
(at least on the 2010-2012 cars). 1.25" is plenty for the rear, but I would not bitch about a 1.5" rear drop.
I can't see how 165 lb linear springs will ride the same as 100 lb progressive oem springs. Progressive springs are typ like 50 lbs for the 1st inch, then 75 for the 2nd inch, 100 for the 3rd inch. I think the secret is in the shocks. Even the cheap adjustable shocks are either adj in compression...or rebound.... or both ( but at the same rate, and not separate compression + rebound adjustability).

 

[Champale]

I had been through Steeda Ultralites and then Ford Racing P springs on my 2 Bosses and then bit the bullet and put some KW V3s on my current one. Let me tell you - they are perfection for my needs (occasional DD, sometimes backroad fun car, no track time). They have substantially higher rates (~325F, ~200R) but they still ride MUCH better than before, plus you have full ride height adjustability and separate compression and rebound adjustability. I have cranked mine a couple of clicks stiffer in both regards and it still isn't unpleasant at all and the suspension control is superb.

I am not sure why the KWs don't get more attention but I could not be happier with them. My friends with Evos, STIs, Viper ACRs (which has KW Clubsports from the factory), 911s etc all have commented on how perfect they feel on the street.

 

[Marble]

Ever consider adjustable shocks and struts? I can adjust my Tokicos to be really firm like a track car or make it soft like a Caddy. Well...not exactly like a caddy but it's pretty darn soft.

Just a thought.

 

[NUTCASE]

Not a road race setup exactly but I have strange adjustable struts in the front and QA1 single adjustables in the rear. I can go past Cadillac soft. But I would not want to make an emergency swerve like that.

Even if you soften your shocks you will still have the stiff springs. Kind of no way around this one. Stiff will make you handle, soft will take the potholes, the choice is yours.

 

[Sky Render]

You want a comfortable ride? Put the stock springs and dampers back on.

EDIT: I wasn't trying to sound like a jerk. But one of the "problems" with stock Mustangs is the handling. And the reason their handling is lacking is because of the suspension setup for comfort. If all you're doing is bombing around on back roads, the stock suspension is perfectly adequate and will be comfortable. You're not getting anywhere near the limits of the stock platform on the street (at least I HOPE you're not).

 

[5.0 Probie]

What size wheels are you running and what tires do you have?

The factory P245/45- ZR19 98w's on American Muscle GT-500 knockoffs.

I am thinking of getting the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 Plus's shortly. Might even change the rims...

 

[5.0 Probie]

Thank you for all your thoughts/comments!

I have been all over the map on what to do. One moment I am just putting the stock springs back on, but keep the Bilstien struts/shocks, and the next I want coil overs.

Please do not get me wrong, the current setup is fun for track days. But the amount of times I have "Made it" to the track vs. "Planned" on it is drastically different.

Add to that, we are in the process of buying a new home. And this new home is a stones throw from the Seattle Raceway...

I was leaning towards just getting the Ford P springs. Because I do want to not have the 4x4 look, and I am not a fan of the dip/dive the factory springs provided.

But I wonder, how much better control is the strut/shock going to be over factory if I did go with the stock springs?

 

[Champale]

A less performance oriented tire should definitely help with ride. If your car has PZeros, those ride a little stiff in my experience. I will say that going from a square setup 285/35/19 RE-11s to 285/30/20(F) and 295/30/20(R) Michelin PSS tires actually has improved ride, which I wasn't expecting given the lower profiles. It's just that some tires ride better than others.

P springs overpowered the rebound damping on my Boss Laguna, even when cranked to full stiff. I was overall relatively happy with that setup, but it still wallowed over bumps when cornering hard. And I am pretty sure that Boss dampers have more damping than OE GT ones.

 

[NUTCASE]

Also I know it sucks to have a 19 or 20 inch wheel and turn around and go back to 18, but the added sidewall of an 18 will help out on the bumps and you might even handle better with less rotating mass.

 

[46Tbird]

I notice how folks who use stuff like adjustable Tokico D specs, always run em on...'full soft' when used for DD around town. (then crank em up stiffer when used on the hwy, or a long trip on hwy, or for autocross, road course etc).

The fundamental purpose of a shock and strut is to dampen the energy imparted to the spring by the suspension. Without them, the spring would bounce back and forth basically forever. So yes, you can go 'full soft' on an adjustable dampener, but take it from me, the car drives like absolute sh!t when you do that. There is a fairly narrow window of adjustment that I will keep it in to go from 'soft' to 'firm' without the car either bucking all over the road or jarring my teeth out.

That said, OP, did you trim your bump stops? I have found that nearly every terrible-riding S197 I've experienced has been a car lowered 1.25" or more and with the stock bump stops in place. The car ends up on top of the stops all the time and rides like total crap.

You can either just trim the stock ones, or get softer ones from the aftermarket. Even those may still need to be trimmed for your particular car. I understand Ford makes a good set. The fronts aren't usually an issue, and of course they're a pain to get at. But the rears are a few minute install and could make a real difference in how your car rides. It's cheap, and maybe worth a shot. Good luck.

http://www.americanmuscle.com/frpp-jounce-stops-0513.html

 

[BruceH]

Thank you for all your thoughts/comments!

I have been all over the map on what to do. One moment I am just putting the stock springs back on, but keep the Bilstien struts/shocks, and the next I want coil overs.

Please do not get me wrong, the current setup is fun for track days. But the amount of times I have "Made it" to the track vs. "Planned" on it is drastically different.

Add to that, we are in the process of buying a new home. And this new home is a stones throw from the Seattle Raceway...

I was leaning towards just getting the Ford P springs. Because I do want to not have the 4x4 look, and I am not a fan of the dip/dive the factory springs provided.

But I wonder, how much better control is the strut/shock going to be over factory if I did go with the stock springs?

Moving to Hobart?

 

[skwerl]

Bullitt/ CJ springs and Koni yellow shocks/struts. I liked the setup so much on my Bullitt I ended up using the same combo on my 2014 (after a disastrous experiment with Tokico/FRPP suspension).

 

[5.0 Probie]

Thank you again for all your replies. A lot of good food for thought.

I will look at different rims/tires for sure.

Bump Stops are half the original size.

Not moving to Hobart. We are moving to the Green River area...

Bullitt/ CJ springs you say skwerl. You mentioned that before. I looked before, but found different versions/models and lost track. Which ones do I want? I bet that might be the ticket for me.

 

[skwerl]

I'm running the stock springs that came on my 08-09 Bullitt. Steve at Tasca can give you the numbers. The rears are said to be the same as the Cobra Jet but the fronts are slightly different. The car sits 1/2"-3/4" lower than stock, just enough to get rid of the 4x4 look. Actually mine may be a bit lower than that by now as my springs are 7 years old.