NEW EXHAUST COMBO with blower 05 GT

[06monera96]

Hello everyone,

So the car is sorted out, thinking of doing some exhaust mods.

Current setup is an 05GT with M90 blower
Stock exhaust setup, except for the outlaws out back.

Want to switch it up to a BBK long tube, with some highflow cats and keep my outlaws.

Will I benefits from this in the 1/4 ?
Will I loose boost?
Will I gain HP to compensate for the 1lb of boost I might loose

All input would be awesome if I should proceed with LT or not.

Thank you all!

 

[topless]

http://www.departmentofboost.com/tech/boosting_3v.htm

Excellent article.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

 

[jhunt47]

Doing the exhaust drops boost because it flows better. Your motor is a air pump you will make more HP/tq with lower boost due to better flow out.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

Location of the O2 sensor is important on LT's as well. Ideally the main O2 sensor should be as close to the head as possible or at least as close to the original placement in the OEM exhaust as possible. This gives more accurate reading and does two things. 1.) Makes the car much easier to tune (that can save you money on a custom tune) and 2.) Improve drive ability because the car is in fact better tuned. (Greg Banish - Advanced Tuning)

With that theory in mind take a look at the Pypes midlength headers (actually in the LT category) and you will notice that the O2 bung and collector are much closer to the header exhaust ports than that of the BBK. I would suggest you consider Pypes as an alternative for this reason. If money is no object I would suggest looking at Stainless Works, Kooks, or American Racing Headers. They have similar design to the Pypes LY header which if you look closely is very close to the much more expensive Kooks header with the big difference being in the collector design and assembly area.

Properly tuned afterwards you will see a respectable improvement. And as mentioned while boost may drop slightly that is not a bad thing.

I went to a place I will refer to as "Brand B" for Pypes headers and off road X years ago and a "retune". I gained a pickup of 6 HP with their "retune". Needless to say after the money spent and removal of the cats as well as the added Pypes LT's I was not real happy. So I took the car to a local guy in my area that can tune a piano, get HP from it and still play like a Steinway. He conservatively retuned the car and found an additional 21 RWHP over the previous tune based on a base pull with that tune and two pull average with his new tune. A total net pickup of 27RWHP on an 9psi FI application with Cams.

Hope this helps.

 

[46addict]

I went to a place I will refer to as "Brand B" for Pypes headers and off road X years ago and a "retune". I gained a pickup of 6 HP with their "retune". Needless to say after the money spent and removal of the cats as well as the added Pypes LT's I was not real happy. So I took the car to a local guy in my area that can tune a piano, get HP from it and still play like a Steinway. He conservatively retuned the car and found an additional 21 RWHP over the previous tune based on a base pull with that tune and two pull average with his new tune. A total net pickup of 27RWHP on an 9psi FI application with Cams.

Hope this helps.

Do you remember your final power/torque numbers on this setup? Was this when you had the 3v?

Longtubes will improve the power band across the curve so the OP could end up gaining half a second at the track. And depending on your tolerance it might also get too loud for comfort so OP may end up swapping out those Outlaws for something quieter.
But if you aren't cutting sub-2.0 60' times OP, I would invest in tires and suspension first.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

Do you remember your final power/torque numbers on this setup? Was this when you had the 3v?

Longtubes will improve the power band across the curve so the OP could end up gaining half a second at the track. And depending on your tolerance it might also get too loud for comfort so OP may end up swapping out those Outlaws for something quieter.
But if you aren't cutting sub-2.0 60' times OP, I would invest in tires and suspension first.

507RWHP 463RWT. Adam (the tuner locally) told me there was more in it, but after seeing the numbers, I said no, knowing the old rule on the 3V. I still have the dyno sheet under glass. Was my first 500+ RWHP setup. Custom Cams, LT's OR Xpipe, Saleen 2300 Twin Screw, 9.5psi, JLT CAI, KB boostapump, brisk plugs 1 step colder, Exedy clutch setup Mach 500 upgraded slave cylinder feed. Not sure what the FI's were. They were part of the original Saleen package. Never made a pass with that setup. 40K on the engine when I sold it. Only issue ever was the blamed phasers.

Oh and magnaflow street series axle backs to tone it down. The MBRP bullet style mufflers were outrageous loud without the cats.

 

[46addict]

What a great success story. Just goes to show 3v's can make good power even with a modest amount of boost. I am only making 429/380 on a 9.5psi Procharger setup.

I was looking at MBRPs to tone the car down but I guess that would have been a mistake. I picked up some stock mufflers here for cheap so those will be going on for the longer trips.

 

[06monera96]

Currently made 407/392 8lbs of boost
everything stock.

I have full suspension on the rear bmr (non whatlinks)

got bgf Drag radials,

Getting line lock to help me with burnouts because i usually just drop clutch and let the tire burn until i hit redline so prob 1 second burnout.

I might just skip the longtubes and get better tires.
For DD with my Lowcar I think the LT might just end up becoming a leak nightmare.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Will I benefits from this in the 1/4 ?

No

Will I loose boost?

Probably.

Will I gain HP to compensate for the 1lb of boost I might loose

The boost loss will not cost you any power. In theory you actually gain a tiny bit of power because there is less resistance on the rotors spinning. You could never measure it though.

All input would be awesome if I should proceed with LT or not.

Don't waste your time/money.

Doing the exhaust drops boost because it flows better. Your motor is a air pump you will make more HP/tq with lower boost due to better flow out.

That is incorrect. The same amount of air is going in the motor (which is dictated by the blower speed). No more air means no more power.

On a turbo or centri setup he could possibly see a slight increase in power at the same impeller speed.

 

[jhunt47]

No


Probably.


The boost loss will not cost you any power. In theory you actually gain a tiny bit of power because there is less resistance on the rotors spinning. You could never measure it though.



Don't waste your time/money.


That is incorrect. The same amount of air is going in the motor (which is dictated by the blower speed). No more air means no more power.

On a turbo or centri setup he could possibly see a slight increase in power at the same impeller speed.

I took it as him wanting to know if he will make more power than he is now with headers.

Yes he will.

He didn't loose boost(measure of restriction)it got less.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I took it as him wanting to know if he will make more power than he is now with headers.

Yes he will.

No, he won't.

Explain to me how if you're putting lets say 1000cfm of air into a motor with a PD blower that it will gain power by adding headers and still putting 1000cfm in the motor. Adding headers will not increase that 1000cfm. No cfm increase equals no power increase.

 

[46addict]

I might just skip the longtubes and get better tires.
For DD with my Lowcar I think the LT might just end up becoming a leak nightmare.

No leaks with my BBK Longtubes after 6+ years of them being on the car. Stick with OEM gaskets or Percy gaskets and you'll be good.

No
On a turbo or centri setup he could possibly see a slight increase in power at the same impeller speed.

On a turbo setup you want the exhaust manifold to be as short as possible to decrease spool time. I find it hard to believe longtubes don't net any gains, especially as boost levels go up and the heads flow more air.

 

[Department Of Boost]

On a turbo setup you want the exhaust manifold to be as short as possible to decrease spool time.

I was speaking in generalities when it comes to centri blowers and turbo's because of the way that they put air in the motor. They are not compressors, they are "blowers". Therefore their efficency at moving air depends on the efficiency of the entire system (motor, exhaust, intake, etc).

I find it hard to believe longtubes don't net any gains, especially as boost levels go up and the heads flow more air.

If you're putting lets say 1000cfm of air into a motor with a PD blower it will not make more power by adding headers because it's still putting 1000cfm in the motor. Adding headers will not increase that 1000cfm. No cfm increase equals no power increase.

There are of course small caveats to the following statement due to pumping losses/gains. But they are very small and "red hearing" to the overall point I'm about to make.

The OP could put that M90 blower spinning at the same blower speed it is now on a 5.8L GT500 motor with big ported heads, big cams, big exhaust, etc and he would make the same power he is now because he has not changed the amount of air that is being forced into the motor. You would see a considerable boost drop though. My guess is 5lb due to less restriction.

On a PD setup the blower IS the air "meter".

 

[redfirepearlgt]

What a great success story. Just goes to show 3v's can make good power even with a modest amount of boost. I am only making 429/380 on a 9.5psi Procharger setup.

I was looking at MBRPs to tone the car down but I guess that would have been a mistake. I picked up some stock mufflers here for cheap so those will be going on for the longer trips.

The MBRP's were great until the cats came off. Younger ears may have loved them though. I am running GT500's on the 14 without cats. Decided to go with the sure thing rather than try $700 on Magnaflow street series for this car only to have the wife grumble about interior drone as minimal as they generate.

Just for reference the first stage of upgrades which was just the Saleen SC at 6.5 psi made 427/407. Was a very efficient little unit. That number was on the very same dyno that produced the 507 number after the next series of mods. So its an apples to apples indication on pickup at the RW airt conditions being the only possible non constant. There's got to be more in your setup than 429. But then again you dyno may be more conservative than the one I was on as well. My pulls were made on a Dynojet. And even here locally I have found a variation in output from one dynojet to another which is why I try to use the same dyno each time to find HP improvements after upgrades.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

No, he won't.

Explain to me how if you're putting lets say 1000cfm of air into a motor with a PD blower that it will gain power by adding headers and still putting 1000cfm in the motor. Adding headers will not increase that 1000cfm. No cfm increase equals no power increase.

So you are suggesting that reducing the resistance for the engine to work less during the exhaust stroke does not improve efficiency which results in more HP at the wheel? Obviously with no more lift on the exhaust valve there will be no change there(since we aren't talking about cam swaps), but do headers not help to improve the scavenging process which aids in exhaust removal as well? Or are you suggesting that LT's in place of factory tube headers yield no additional improvement worth spending $1500 bucks on? As I recall the 3V runs a cast manifold and not a tube header as the newer Coyotes do.

 

[Department Of Boost]

So you are suggesting that reducing the resistance for the engine to work less during the exhaust stroke does not improve efficiency which results in more HP at the wheel?

Not if you don't put more air in the motor. Which you won't with a PD blower spinning at the same speed.

Putting headers on a NA motor increases the air moving through the entire motor (improved efficiency).

Putting headers on a Centri/turbo motor increases the air moving through the entire motor (improved efficiency) because the impeller has less resistance to work against. Centri/turbos are "fans". They are very sensitive to restriction.

Putting headers on a PD motor does not increase the air moving through the entire motor. The air moving through the motor remains the same because a PD blower is a compressor.

There is a point where putting headers on a PD motor does help. But that is only when the boost pressure gets so high that it causes significant drag on the rotors which increases parasitic loss. Lot's of variables here but from what I have seen first hand that's about 20psi. In the OP's cases this is a non issue.

 

[eighty6gt]

headers = lower boost = less heat = more power possible on 91

 

[redfirepearlgt]

Not if you don't put more air in the motor. Which you won't with a PD blower spinning at the same speed.

Putting headers on a NA motor increases the air moving through the entire motor (improved efficiency).

Putting headers on a Centri/turbo motor increases the air moving through the entire motor (improved efficiency) because the impeller has less resistance to work against. Centri/turbos are "fans". They are very sensitive to restriction.

Putting headers on a PD motor does not increase the air moving through the entire motor. The air moving through the motor remains the same because a PD blower is a compressor.

There is a point where putting headers on a PD motor does help. But that is only when the boost pressure gets so high that it causes significant drag on the rotors which increases parasitic loss. Lot's of variables here but from what I have seen first hand that's about 20psi. In the OP's cases this is a non issue.

Okay, makes sense. Learning a lot from you and from the Advanced Tuning book I just bought by Greg Banish. Haven't gotten to the FI section yet. Thanks and that does make sense after explaining it out. Guess that's why my guys told me Stall converter over LT's for 2017. I figured it was for other reasons.

 

[Department Of Boost]

headers = lower boost = less heat = more power possible on 91

That would be immeasurable.

 

[46addict]

There's got to be more in your setup than 429. But then again you dyno may be more conservative than the one I was on as well. My pulls were made on a Dynojet. And even here locally I have found a variation in output from one dynojet to another which is why I try to use the same dyno each time to find HP improvements after upgrades.

My pulls were also made on a Dynojet on a standard correction factor.
I had been chasing a part throttle bucking problem and it turned out to be bad coil boots, even though they appeared ok. Car is much smoother now and I more than likely gained back some ponies from that. I also replaced the aging blower belt. I may put it back on the dyno if I'm ever curious enough to find out where I am now.

Putting headers on a NA motor increases the air moving through the entire motor (improved efficiency).

Putting headers on a Centri/turbo motor increases the air moving through the entire motor (improved efficiency) because the impeller has less resistance to work against. Centri/turbos are "fans". They are very sensitive to restriction.

Putting headers on a PD motor does not increase the air moving through the entire motor. The air moving through the motor remains the same because a PD blower is a compressor.

There is a point where putting headers on a PD motor does help. But that is only when the boost pressure gets so high that it causes significant drag on the rotors which increases parasitic loss. Lot's of variables here but from what I have seen first hand that's about 20psi. In the OP's cases this is a non issue.

That makes perfect sense. Thanks.